ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

I didn't say we don't follow him in TLJ. But I would say there, he is either the 5th or 6th most important character to the narrative. I'm torn on whether Rose is more important than him.

 

It doesn’t matter about screen time, what matters is importance to the story. Rey is the protagonist, Kylo is the deuteragonist and her direct antagonist, and Finn occupies a tertiary level of importance with Han, Poe et al.

 

I certainly agree that importance to the story is super important as well. Screen time has to be measured next to that. And in terms of importance to the narrative, we follow Finn and it's his choices literally more than any character, including Rey, that drive the story. Rey is along for the ride, Finn is making his story go forward every step of the way, and we the audience are right there experiencing it with him through his eyes.

Kylo doesn't have any qualities whatsoever of a deuteragonist in TFA. He pops in and out of the story where he's relevant. And yes, he is the antagonist, of course. Not only Rey's though. Also Finn's.

 

He actually does, because he is the protagonist’s most prominent rival, making him her direct foil and thus second most important person in the story in TFA. A deuteragonist can be the main villain, as well as him being the antagonist.

 

A deuteragonist can be a villain, but that's not a quality fundamental to the position in the narrative. Being the rival of the protagonist doesn't make a character a deuteragonist, and of course it also doesn't rule it out.

Again, Kylo is also shown to be Finn's adversary in that narrative. TFA is a trio story, with Rey, Finn and Kylo as the new leads. Some arguments really try to erase Finn from that, but they're never backed up in the story itself. Rey is the protagonist, Finn is the deuteragonist/co-protagonist, Kylo is the antagonist.

 

True, and imo the film separates The First Order into two halves, Hux on the technology side, and Kylo on The Force side. The brainwashed Stormtroopers reside on Hux/Phasma side and I think Finn is more directly associated with those two characters.

 

That doesn't track with what is presented in the film though as Kylo is the one most offended by Finn's betrayal. Kylo is the one that senses something about Finn in the village. Kylo tries to kill Finn and calls him traitor. He also uses Finn's betrayal against Hux. Finn's story is most decidedly told in terms of Kylo as antagonist in TFA now they should have done something with Phasma but they made her worse than Boba Fett.

 

Right. That's the separation. It's made to mirror that of Tarken and Vader ala "this technological terror you've constructed".

Hux is in command of the technology and phasma, and phasma is the one directly controlling finn.

 

Finn’s long introduction prior to us meeting our protagonist is pretty much the same as R2-D2 and C-3PO in A New Hope. The closest character in comparison is C-3PO, as has already been suggested. As soon as he meets Rey and BB-8 he is a sidekick to Rey, because the male lead, if anybody, is Han. You don’t even see Poe again until briefly on Takodana, and then the final assault.

 

I think some people here mistake "I find this character as annoying as a character in another film" to mean both characters filled the same type of role. Not true at all.

 

I don’t think you are i remember the conversations the execution of Finn and Rose is just god awful. The sad thing is there is a good version that existed when he was Paige’s gunner. The overall idea in TLJ is fine it’s the language used and the dumb decisions by the characters and their lack of chemistry that ruins it.

 

Yes, this. Deuteragonist can be an antagonist and often is. Protagonist is his antagonist.

Kylo is Rey's antagonist and love interest. So he fulfills the qualification.

Yes it is. If you don't believe people's interpretation, that's fine. But visual cues are all there for 3PO Finn as proven by gifs. He fulfills the same role. He's scared, like 3PO.




He crashlands in the desert, like 3PO.



Thirst played for comedy






He gives exposition about the state of the galactic war like 3PO. Rey is isolated from the action, like Luke, so he brings her the news while exaggerating his part.




Comedy double act with BB8 aka ST R2



Relegated to the background as soon as Han shows up.




Where is 3PO??? A ha ha ha

Oh look who discovers the chess board!



In this one, they didn't even mirror. they just dropped Finn in 3PO seat and BB8 in R2's spot.

I mean, it's possible that JJ was such a big fan of 3PO he wrote 3PO's human insert as one of 3 leads (Rey, Kylo, Finn). But there's no mistake who Finn's OT counterpart is and that's the golden droid.

 

RJ did so much more the Finn in these movies then whatever JJ did. JJ gave him force abilities, and a quick lightsaber fighter. The problem is there was no depth or substance to the overall story with these. RJ actually gave Finn a compelling story and overall arc in his movie. When I’m watching TFA or TROS, all I see is Finn running and so hung up on Rey that he can’t even be a character. In TLJ he’s actually on a quest where he learns about himself and who he really wants to be as a person. No more running, found his family, and he was going to make the ultimate sacrifice for that family. TROS is easily Finns worst movie unfortunately. He gets the force, but you can’t even really tell and he’s once again hung up on Rey for 2 hours. The scene on Kiff with Jannah is nice, but that’s literally it.

Nice post @vaderito. JJ turned Finn basically into a mix of threepio and Jar Jar. Comedic relief and constant irritation. I’m glad RJ actually have him something to do and discover himself.

 

Great points. Scene with Jannah was underminded right a way cause, just as they started to bond, he got hung up on Rey again:




Stop being hung up on that girl!!!!!

There was no payoff to this whatsoever and it created a third wheel double act. Finn the thrid wheel to Rey and Kylo romance and Jannah the third wheel to Finn's crush on Rey. Their presence on DS made no sense.

 

I do admit his presence on the Death Star wreckage amounted to nothing.

All he did was see what happened to Rey and why she flew off.

Otherwise, zilch.

 

Finn acting like a goofball and needing be reigned in by Rose is RJ writing Finn badly and Rose lecturing him. That's what reigning someone in means imo. Canto Bite to me is the moment that I think Rose could start to be argued as more important than Finn in the TLJ narrative actually. She was set up at the beginning with the tragedy of her sister. Her sister is absolutely given narrative focus and importance all the way through Rose's introduction. Canto Bite developed that much further. Rose is the viewer's humanization of the Resistance rank and file, why they're fighting and what their experiences are.

On Canto Bite, Finn's background and history and character are totally sidelined for Rose's background and characterization. Finn is made to be a buffoon so Rose can reign him in and we/he can learn about her. But the flip side never happens. Finn is never developed in TLJ through his background. It's barely even acknowledged in fact. RJ took a character that just escaped a cult where he was a slave in their army, and who was portrayed as deeply afraid of them because he understands their reach, and made him act excited by a casino and need to be told about war profiteering, slavery, and the import of the mission.

I know Rose is supposed to be the good angel on Finn's shoulder in contrast to DJ, but if the point was Finn's development, the story wouldn't be Finn constantly passively listening and that's it. Finn's understanding of these characters should be getting filtered through his background and his perspective via development. It just never happens. It reminds me of how Rey barely speaks for herself in TFA when it comes to motives and goals as she supposedly develops. Finn just listens to Rose, and then adopts Rose's perspective wholecloth with no explanation of his development. It comes off to me like he's following command or something after being called a deserter and cowardly a few times, and then he's still wrong anyway. And RJ wants us to know he would have failed in that super dumb attempt to save everyone, so don't blame Rose for that either.

That ending with Rose knocking Finn off course, and then the weird kiss, I consider to be the worst written part of TLJ. I think it's unsalvageable. I wouldn't give it credit for just being executed badly. The whole thing just doesn't work as emotional payoff in any way imo. I don't even get what RJ thought he was going for, besides I guess another opportunity for Rose to lecture Finn, and then a totally awkward and inappropriate kiss that wasn't even mutual? It's the scene that stands out the most to me by far that my family audibly reacted to in confusion at the theater, and it was one of the first things we discussed in the car because they were confused by WTH happened there and why.

 

When I watched TFA, I see dramatic character potential with comedy involved (similar, to me, to Kirk in Star Trek 09,

Spoiler: Star Trek 09

who gets beaten up by Spock, knocked out, kicked off the ship, chased by monster(s?), protected by Old Spock, and gets his hands inflated after being dosed with something

), who goes from running away from his problems to standing and fighting for the people he cares about. I see him, as he says, as someone who made a choice to not kill for the first order.

In TLJ, I see someone who who I think needs to be told a lesson, instead of what I think TFA had, which was learn it throughout the movie. In TLJ, I think, to me, the movie isn't much new with the character.

 

But Kirk is the main protagonist with a lot of levity. He isn't a comic relief sidekick. Therefore, Finn would never go places that Kirk did. It's really apples and oranges. People want to see what they want to see but it isn't there. They tried to make it there and each and every movie that came after TFA proved their reading of TFA was wrong. Closing one's eye to the writing on the wall doesn't eamn there's no writing. What happened to Finn in TLJ was expected. he was either going to continue to be a tagalong in the main story that doesn't impact him, or the lead in a side story that doesn't impact the main story. TLJ was the latter, TFA and TROS were the former. I'd say neither was good for the character but I also think that the character wasn't needed to begin with and they realized that too. Only too late.

 

Yeah, the payoff with Rose and Finn at the end with him being knocked out of the way didn’t have much catharsis. I understood that Finn’s skid kamikaze wouldn’t work but the way Rian showed it, just confused audiences and made fans hate Rose even more.

Even this video which neatly details Rey, Finn, Poe, Luke, and Kylo’s individual arcs, doesn’t have a justification for Finn’s final impact of his arc. (He doesn’t save the Resistance). Time stamp 10:17-10:22.




As for reigning Finn in. Audiences seemed to not have a problem when Han did it to Finn in TFA. “I’m in charge Phasma! I’m in charge!!”

I think Rose gets really chided for reigning Finn in TLJ, because unlike Luke doing it to Rey or Leia doing it to Poe, Rose is neither a previous character nor a wise old mentor type.

Either though Rian set it up for Finn to learn from her. It’s not different than Leia doing the same to Poe or Luke doing it to Rey.

 

The bolded is dead on. Newer, younger characters are supposed to learn from mentor characters. I think Rey hugely suffers as a character for reversing her role with Luke in this way (so obviously I disagree with your characterization of Rey learning anything from Luke). But Rose should have been portrayed as Finn's equal and friend.

Poe learning from Leia is totally appropriate, except Leia was portrayed as a real housewife cast member or something soap opera slapping him and then gossipping about him with Holdo. For mentor characters to work, they have to actually portray a wisdom and charisma that makes them credible as mentors.