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ST Finn/John Boyega Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Pro Scoundrel , Jan 3, 2020.

  1. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I agree with your sentiment but I guess there are some unfortunate similarities in the comedic relief parts.

    *BB8 beeps*
    "Finn naked leaking bag? Did you fry a chip?"

    *R2 beeps*
    "My parts are showing? My goodness!"

    The duel in TFA sets him apart. And his feelings for Rey.
    Im actually disappointed JJ didn't make up for his TLJ characterisation more with TROS. It was better but not by much.

    He is better under JJ though. Like in the MF gunner seat near the start of TROS he just seems cooler than in TLJ. In his mannerisms. And the humour in the JJ entries is better too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  2. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    The naked leaking bag is one reason I absolutely dislike RJ's portrayal of Finn. He treated Finn's injury like a joke, when it wasn't portrayed that way in TFA. And the "3PO is Finn" is something the user tries to insist is about TFA, which doesn't follow.

    I felt Finn was his best as a character in TROS but his character arc in the movie was nothing. But John was given more dramatic moments and he felt like he'd grown as a character. The MF gunner in TROS is a great example. When I first saw that scene, I was like "this is the Finn I always knew was there."
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  3. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Exactly what audience does when Finn is in a comedy situation and in drama such as when he screams for Rey. They laugh at him, not with him. That distinguishes comic relief characters from characters who do some comedy but are not comic in nature. Such as Han. He has moments of comedy but you laugh with him, not at him. OTOH, Finn comedy was designed to laugh at him and his OTT style of screaming Reeeey is an unintentional comedy that created perception that he only does comedy and nothing else (even though, as your example shows, that isn't true). Not to mention that there isn't another character doing more comedy than him in TFA. BB8 serves as a double act with him occasionally.

    All of this is meant to laugh at him

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    Oops
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    Ok, I get that this isn't what she says in the movie but I'm showing that his crawl is played for laughs as is "cute boyfriend" line

    Oops
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    OK, this got a payoff

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    This isn't but is so damn hilarious one cannot help but laugh

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    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  4. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    The audience is not meant to laugh at him when he screams Rey. It's meant to be serious. Just because some do doesn't mean it's meant to be on the same level as 3PO's humor. It's absolutely not what the directors intended when they wrote it, unlike when they wrote 3PO to be funny in battle.

    3PO only has one truly serious moment in the entire series and it's in TROS when he gives up his memory and even then, it's played up with laughs because of Babu Frik. Everything else about 3PO is a joke. You can't say the same about Finn.

    Also, all those moments? Kylo Ren's temper tantrums are also something we laugh at. Rey not able to fire her pistol is something we laugh at. You just don't like Finn, though, so you want to degrade him. Many of us think his arc was done horribly, but he was not meant to be written in the same vain as 3PO because unlike 3PO, Finn has many dramatic moments to his character.

    Also, when Rey says "I bypassed the compressor" we're laughing at Han's "huh" in the same way we laugh at everyone else. We're laughing at him when he's in a jam with the other smugglers. Han is cool, but we're laughing at him there. Everyone has comedy that we laugh at.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Punching Nazis in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Indeed. If the audience is “meant to laugh at” Finn, all that means is that the writers and directors think that bullying is funny. I think better of them than that.

    3PO has his funny moments, but other than Han being mean to him in ESB and Leia getting irritated with him, he is treated with affection by the other characters.
     
  6. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    Kylo's'tantrums' remind me of the meltdowns I have due to autism, so I felt more sympathy for him rather than finding his reaction funny.
    I did, however, find the reactions of Mitaka and the two stormtroopers funny! SW has always had comedy elements, Rogue One was their most serious film, and even that had funny moments, especially where K2 was concerned.
     
  7. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    I believe Kylo's tantrums were meant to draw laughter from the audience (my audience laughed every time I saw the film), even if some didn't find them funny. Otherwise the Stormtroopers reaction wouldn't be there as an audience reference. It's partly why I couldn't take him seriously as a villain. But I had hope he'd grow into his role and become a better villain as the series progressed, much like I hoped Finn would grow and mature. To be fair, they both do mature. In TROS, both have eased into their roles and are taken more seriously by their peers, even if I find their arcs disappointing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
  8. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I actually saw Kylo as an anti villain. He wasn't a villain like Maul, or even Darth Vader, in that he still had a conscience.
     
  9. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Kylo tantrums are comedy but not overwhelming character-defining comedy. They are sporadic. Unlike Finn comedy that is overwhelming in TFA. Also, like I said, Reeey yelling is not a comedy but is done in such a hilarious way (OTT extended eeeeee in Rey while making funny faces and gestures) that it became an instant meme. And added up to non-stop comedy narrative even though the context is not comic.

    Thing is, Finn always adds twice as much comedy to the proceedings than comparable character. Take They Fly Now. He became a meme, Poe did not.

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    He makes funny faces ripe for meme-ing, Poe does not at least comparatively

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  10. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Punching Nazis in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I thought Kylo’s tantrums were annoying, not funny at all. All I could see is “entitled grown ass man breaks expensive equipment because he didn’t get his way.” Someone in Saga once said that it’s supposed to be funny in a Homer Simpson like way, but Homer Simpson actually is funny. Or was in early seasons.

    Finn and Poe together were funny. Unless the dorky kid having an unrequited crush is supposed to be funny (it’s not at all), Finn isn’t funny by himself.
     
  11. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    He's totally funny by himself. Look at gifs and stills. He always makes funny faces. I think that's called meme acting now, when someone has such exaggerated reactions and grimaces they are easy to meme.

    Also, his unrequited crush is hilarious because he just won't get the memo. When it goes for too long and she obviously isn't into him nor will be, it crosses the line between poor him and lol dude get over it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  12. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Punching Nazis in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I didn’t find that funny at all, it just read like bully “humor”.

    He certainly should have moved on, but not because it’s somehow funny that the dorky guy wants to fit in, but because she demonstrated herself to be too shallow to be worth his time.
     
  13. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    It isn't "bully" humor. If you don't want people to laugh than maybe toned down emotional expression would help. A lot of laughs come from the performance style.

    He should have moved on because she didn't reciprocate and that's her right that should be respected. Not moving on has an uncomfortable tinge of "I don't accept it so I'm gonna make you reciprocate".
     
  14. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Punching Nazis in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    It’s not the expressions that are bully “humor.” It’s making fun of, again, the dorky guy with the unrequited crush. The idea that that’s supposed to be funny has vibes of a very bad, snooty high school where cliques and bullying are encouraged.

    And there isn’t anything about Rey that deserves respect. Sure, she has the right to be as shallow as she wants, and Finn should have moved on because he deserves better, but in no way did he behave like he was going to “make” her reciprocate.
     
  15. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    People make fun of what's funny. His unrequited crush isn't sympathetic, it's hilarious. Hence laughs. Maybe you see it as sympathetic and I can understand why but there's legit unintentional humor in the absurdity of his situation. He keeps yelling the name of the girl who really doesn't like him romantically (she has a love interest of her own) and ignores girls and a boy who show interest in him, all without any payoff whatsoever and to the point that his running and yelling after the girl became his character arc.

    I don't know how much actors know but after TLJ came out, it seems that John thought that Rey was jealous of Rose:








    which is strange considering that CT asked Rian to add

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    for the purpose of Damerrey romance in DotF. Now, I know that CT was fired already before TLJ came out but it still seems like a big stretch to assume or at least jokingly tease Finnrey except if actors didn't know the purpose of the above scene.

    Long story short, it seems to me that Finn's OTT reactions to Rey stem from headcanon that Finn and Rey should be together even if Finn may not be written as in love with her (we know that Jannah was supposed to be his love interest). But performance paints him as that he is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  16. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Punching Nazis in Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I’m not a FinnRey shipper because I think Rey is shallow and mean-spirited. She reminds me of, again, a character in the worst possible iteration of a high school where cliques and bullying are encouraged, someone who thinks it is more important to cozy up to the “in crowd” and those she thinks are “important” rather than have any principles of her own or self respect. I didn’t used to think she was like that in TFA but upon my rewatch, that’s who she always was.

    FinnRose or FinnJannah would have been much better and I wouldn’t mind seeing such a pairing in a future show if Disney chooses to make one. So this is not about wishing Finn “got” Rey, not at all. The notion of mocking the kind, dorky character for being dorky is bully “humor” regardless of why the mocking is happening.

    That’s why the idea that LFL is sending the message that “you’re supposed to laugh at this, it’s funny” is really, really bad. They might as well pull out a high school yearbook and say, here, draw clown noses on all the guys who aren’t good at sports.

    FWIW I don’t think LFL is actually sending that message, I think people who dislike Finn and/or Boyega are interpreting it that way. Or that’s me wanting to think better of LFL than that.
     
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  17. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I don't think LFL is sending any message and I don't think that people who find it funny particularly care for character/actor to either like or dislike. There doesn't have to be an agenda in finding something funny.

    Finn and Rose were killed by the backlash, same thing that happened to Hulktasha. It's just how studios, or at least Disney, react to vocal fandom dislike. Both relationships remain oddities in their respective franchises since they had no relevance beyond one movie. Also, characters don't develop into something else (best friends, for example) but everything is dropped and they are basically removed from each other's company.

    From
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    to

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  18. alwayslurking

    alwayslurking Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 21, 2019
    Is it really being argued here that Finn yelling Rey is meant to be comedic in the movie? That's a ridiculous notion. It's poor writing, I'll give you that. But it's not comedy, so clearly does not make him a C3PO. Please.

    This. This whole discussion comes down to one poster attributing his or her opinion of a character to the entire the audience. One person thinking JB's "performance style" is worthy of laughter does not mean the rest of the audience feels the same way.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  19. christophero30

    christophero30 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    May 18, 2017
    I don't think the Rey shouts were intentional humor either. It's more something of a pattern that people picked up at the time and some laughed, such as everyone running in JJ movies or lens flare.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  20. sian1965

    sian1965 Jedi Padawan star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2020
    I'm not a Boyega fan, for reasons I've already stated here, but I liked Finn. His character arc in TROS reduced him to Rey's groupie.
     
  21. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    I said it was unintentionally funny dramatic moment, not that it was intentional. And that because it was unintentionally funny it added up into perception that he only does comedy even though that isn't the case (as others pointed out with their examples).
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  22. reyvision

    reyvision Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2017
    All the stuff you find funny about Finn isn't meant to be funny. His yelling Rey isn't funny, nor his is "They fly now?" in terms of laughing at him. So again, your original point that he was written to be 3PO, still fails with logic. Just because you don't like him, you find things meant to be serious funny, doesn't mean it's what the writers/directors intended.

    All characters have funny moments. Boyega is a funny guy, and he has a lot of them, but he was never written to be the way you're writing him.

    Exactly. Nothing in the arguments they've presented shows anything about how the writers intended to have these moments be funny. Only they find them funny.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  23. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    I've said this before:

    I think Finn is closer in concept to Kirk from Star Trek 09.
    Kirk gets made the butt of jokes. He's a selfish pain at first who plays 2nd fiddle to Spock, the character that I think the movie favors as a character. Kirk gets beaten up by Spock, gets given inflatable hands as a joke, runs around from monsters, is protected by Old Spock, I think gets not as much emotional dramatic resonance in the movie as Spock and I think doesn't deal the defeating blow to the villain, Spock does.

    Now, it's not a 1:1 comparison. Arguably, Kirk is given more serious stuff to work with. But I think it's closer than C3PO, who I think kinda effects the plot of ANH the least of all the main characters. While I think Finn has more direct effect of the plot.
     
  24. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Meant to be funny? No. I think what @vaderito is arguing is that REEEEEEY!!! is an instance of Narm.
     
  25. vaderito

    vaderito Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2016
    =D= yep, absolutely this. Perfect.
     
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