Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

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The engine block looks much the same (though even then it has three engines as opposed to the starchaser's four), but the weapon mounts are very different - two nose mounted lasers instead of four weapons mounted on the sides and wings - as is the wing configuration. Either these heavily modified, or not starchasers but just a similar design I think.

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Ah, very cool. And it makes sense that a vehicle design probably wouldn't be exclusive to a criminal gang, even if it is iconically associated with them.

...as an aside, thinking about this and the new fighter makes me really want non-lego versions of Gauvian interceptor and Takodonna skipper. Well, all the ships exclusive to lego episode 7 really.

Spoiler: Mandalorian

Agreed, that is a very cool design choice.

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The Crimson Corsair's ship has already been identifyed as a modified corellian star shuttle and given an appearance in legos and star wars resistance if I am not mistaken, though admittedly its appearance doesn't look anything like a CSS so I am guessing it is very heavily modified.

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The ship in Andor that crashed on Kenari was also referred to as a corsair. It looked pretty different I believe, so I wonder if corsair might mean a light but fast and heavily armed craft or something.

Very cool, thanks for that.

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The concept art version has a ridiculous number of guns compared to the one see in the show. Feels very piratey, but I can see why they went with the more streamlined look, especially since it leads to the cool visual of the ship opening up to deploy its guns.

 

Even with the scaling up I think it is too small. Looks like nothing bigger than a large corvette of frigate.

Here's a thought...

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the corsair is going to be captured and used by Greef to defend Nevarro.

 

Ryan Church has posted on twitter that

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Apparently the pirate ship isn't inspired by the Eclipse but rather both designs take similar design inspiration from the prows of irl ships, and overall he was aiming for a more separatist than imperial design, with a touch of Chris Foss.

 

See, I'm of two minds of this. On the one hand, I regret the "waste" of such a neat keel which is so similar to an Eclipse class - ie. it would lessen the impact now of suddenly seeing such a monster on screen.

On the other hand, I prefer pirate ships to be signficantly smaller than the big Imperial Navy designs. I was never a fan of the pirate Super Star Destroyer from the Aftermath trilogy. In my mind, pirate ships should be reasonably fast and able to harry lightly armed civilian craft but not nearly a match for an actual military ship. Plus I like the colouration and specific design of this ship enough that it's a net positive for me.

 

*cough* Errant Venture *cough*

 

Not saying it should be ISD size...just maybe Gladiator/Dreadnought/Vindicator size so it looks like it could reasonably carry a squadron or 2 of fighters.

 

*Shrugs* Errant Venture is an Imperial-class. Easier to maintain (even if Booster needed help from Bel Iblis at some point or afterwards ).

 

I can't help but think that the Errant Venture made no sense. The New Republic had every reason to want to add another valuable warship to its fleet, and for Booster maintaining such a ship would've been utterly hopeless. Not to mention that he'd make himself a huge target for Imperial warlords...and an ISD doesn't even carry much cargo. If he wanted a mobile smuggling base, a Lucrehulk or an upgunned bulk freighter would've made more sense.

 

See even with Errant Venture, the idea of it actually going toe to toe with a stock ISD doesn't sit well with me (though better than an SSD still). Now ,for sure I remember the Venture did get into a couple scrapes and was shown to be pretty lethal still but I also remember it being mainly a space bazaar by the end of things. Similarly, I really disliked Rebel Dawn (of the Han Solo Trilogy) when the smugglers went toe to toe with the Empire. I remember reasons being given for why the Empire didn't fully commit. But even then, the force they sent there being outmatched by a bunch of freighters soured me on the finale. Really there shouldn't be a pitched or outright battle in which the Fringe stands a chance - their whole schtick should be running and picking off a few TIEs here and there.

 

In all fairness, the Rebel Alliance is itself a ragtag group, and they still have multiple capital ships. Heck, the citizen fleet in Rise of Skywalker is supposed With that in mind, I don't mind at all pirates having large warships under their command.

Especially since I am a historian that specializes in pirates, and let me tell you, pirate groups can be surprisingly large, well equipped, organized, and even disciplined. In particular the Guangdong Confederation was a pirate group quite capable of defeating the Qing navy in open combat, going toe to toe with European fleets, and even penetrating deep inland while controlling swathes of the coast.

So between that historical background, the existence of the rebel alliance, and star wars being larger than life science-fantasy in general, I see the existence of a pirate state like the Sovereign Lattitudes with its own army and navy as fairly plausible.
....Albeit, it would probably be less wild "yar har me matees" pirates and more "as professional as the rebel alliance but oriented towards profit rather than ideology"

......and one would think the universe would be different if a privately owned warship could just show up one day without warning and start wrecking ****. Like, a lot more anti-orbital shields and turbolasers. Certainly someone like Jabba would have a lot better anti-air defenses than we see against Maul's attack. Still, I would put that at "such things are plausible but rare."

 

It wouldn't surprise me if keeping it in private hands was more to do with keeping Booster Terrik on not working for the Empire like most smugglers were until after the Thrawn Campaign. And of course, it was a great port-of-call for NRI agents such as Iella Wessiri and Winter to work aboard without too much hindrance. So it was likely the agreement between Airen Cracken and Booster Terrik that left Errant Venture in the latter's ownership for this exact purpose (with the added bonus the ship could be serviced at NR shipyards since it was an Intelligence asset). But when Cracken retired, that agreement was either forgotten or just never renewed by Cracken's successor, thus explaining its issues at the start of the Caamas Document Crisis. The agreement was likely renewed by Garm Bel Iblis during and after the crisis as it was clearly an asset, particularly with the end of the Galactic Civil War. Wouldn't even be a surprise if Dif Scaur did keep it up in his tenure as NRI Director (and Kalenda when she took over as Director of GA Intelligence) since Errant Venture clearly was still in decent condition (likely lessened somewhat due to the Yuuzhan Vong War at the start but proved a good idea as the war turned on the NR).

 

Sailing ships were generally pretty self-sufficient though, right? You don't need fuel, and gunpowder I think is good as long as it stays dry...all you need are stores of fresh water and food. Star Wars ships (in Legends anyway) I assume are the equivalent of nuclear-powered ships so they wouldn't need constant refueling...but they still have tons of machinery and parts, electronic systems, etc. that would require a significant logistics trail.

 

Well, I wouldn't say sailing ships are self-sufficient - pirates were very dependent on friendly communities for places to repair, resupply, recruit, sell fenced goods, hide out, enjoy r&r etc - but yeah high tech stuff does require a lot of support, and a lot of up front investment and that is why piracy is so rare these days and largely limited to speedboat hijackings. As ubiquitous as the trope is, in a realistic setting there probably wouldn't be space pirates - too much effort, risk and cost for the returns.

But this is why I mentioned the rebel alliance. A paramilitary group like that would have similar problems - there is a reason Al-Qaeda doesn't have jets and tanks after all.

So I think we ultimately have to accept that the sheer scale of the galactic economy in star wars is such that significant logistical trails can manage to slip through the cracks. As Admiral Ozzel said, while explaining why smugglers might have a base with a planetary shield and ion cannon, there are whole worlds that are uncharted, and many more where a few bribes are all you need to keep some repairs or refits off the books.

...and the pirates who stole the SSD didn't even need to keep things that secret since they are outright seizing territory. And yeah, it would still be a lot less than the empire, but we are talking one ssd vs dozens of ssds, two death stars, and thousands of other ships, plus the thing is already built so maintaining it would be the only issue.

 

I guess it comes down to preference. I acknowledge the Rebel Alliance was definitely ragtag but even there, outside of my beloved Mon Cal cruisers (which I see as more of the product of the Mon Cal state as it were than fringe elements) I don't see much of chance for a capital ship victory for Rebel Alliance ships. Sure the existence of starfighters (and Rebel superiority in alot of cases in that area) makes a difference in the GFFA vs a comparison to real world. In the real world, I suppose I see more of a modern (well, let's say WWI onwards) comparison in my head - such as Somali pirates vs a US Navy Task Force. Granted, Star Wars draws most of its warfare inspiration from the past (including sailboats if you count the opening of ROTS) but in my mind, I still default to the image of a modernish State Navy vs a criminal gang as far as capital ships go. Doesn't mean the alternate cannot exist as you mentioned in rare cases; just not how I largely envision it. Ultimately Star Wars ain't our galaxy either way, so it just comes down to what "feels" right, I figure.

In your second post, you mention some of the ships can slip through the cracks and filter to pirates. That I can go along with. I would view such ships though as being big targets for the larger governmental fleets and having a short life - ie. maybe the regimes could countenance a band of freighters slipping into ports unknown but actually raiding with a Star Destroyer would invite a quick hunt down. With allowances, of course, for times of lawlessness and weak central authority such as the New Republlic era in canon. Now if the SSD hook from Aftermath followed with a story of a New Republic task force taking this as the next target farily shortly thereafter and batting it down, I could roll with that (maybe give Ackbar SOMEthing to do in the new canon)

 

Actually, independent nations would be cool to see. I think the canon post Endor is a good time for it (I was hoping to see more in the High Republic, too) I did think the idea of these smaller states birthed from the Aftermath trilogy was a neat one. Aftermath, trilogy, in general is a weird one for me. Did not like the overall story or alot of the writing but the off main stage story hooks were very often compelling.

On another note entirely, how do others feel about Basilisk War Droids from the old Dark Horse comics days? I would love to see them reappear in the Mandalorian. Slim chances, with being forgotten possibly a couple canons ago. I admit that I dreamed of them showing up when Mandalorian was first announced. I have been enamoured of them since the TOTJ days - I confess some of my love is from owning the miniature from the old Star Wars Miniatures game. Having the 3d representation really makes me appreciate the design. I like the current crop of Mando ships well enough but I think a Basilisk would really stand out among other Star Wars ships. Impractical - sure, but fun to see; definitely. Plus, I think we could get a neat rider/mount relationship akin to a knight and steed what with the Basilisk actually being a droid verus just a fighter. Maybe to solidify the idea of divisions among the Mandos and diversify their clans, have one of the factions use Basilisks as their vessels of choice. Could be updated to having a transparisteel bubble or cowling if too unbelievable.

I'd picture them as intrasystem non-hyperdrive capable fighters and planetary assault craft. Main appeal for me would be the uniqueness of the whole thing. Starfighters in Sci-fi are a dime a dozen these days (still love em in Star Wars of course, so keep them coming). But here could be something that really makes you pause and stand out for Mandos vs other factions. Something to make one think: "Those Mandos sure are crazy"

 

With both season 2 and TBoBF finale featuring iconic EU droids - Dark Troopers and Scorpeneks - I think Basilisk droids' chances to appear are not so low.

 

Super Star Destroyers have sewers on them, in effect, per Rebel Assault 2. Also various maintenance areas and deep bay/compartments.
We have the case of Stormtroopers saying "They must have gone on to M-Level" of Rookie-1 and Ru Murleen, so I infer there's 13 or so lettered levels below the bottomost deck, which number close to 300 as I recall from the novel Darksaber, for an Executor-class.
The Haynes Death Star Manual also depicts recreation areas, gyms, hot bunking berths and repair shops.

 

Fair enough. Though the mention of Mon Cal cruisers does remind me that those are civilian vessels retrofitted to fight capital ships, and the same was true of Trade Federation battleship as well; which does seem more fitting with an age of sail setting compared to a modern one since the only difference between a military and civilian ship back then was the number of cannons, whereas you couldn't turn an oil tanker into a decent warship by strapping some howitzers on it. In any case, it would be cool to see more pirate ships that were converted civilian ships - in particular I think it would be cool to have a bulk freighter turned into a carrier - or older generation warships clearly salvaged, patched up, and held together with spit and prayers.

I remember those pirates actually wanted to get along with the New Republic, though I do wonder how well a pirate state could actually coexist with anyone given what pirates do. Personally, I kind of want them to last long enough to get taken out by the first order, as a precursor to taking over more of the galaxy. Maybe even have a joint New Republic-First Order task force as a way of pretending to play nice, hiding their full strength by sending only a relatively small number of poorly equipped troops.

Agreed. Honestly, the other states mentioned in Aftermath are the thing I have most wanted star wars to follow up on since then. ...Especially in the form of a new Empire at War game that has all three as playable factions alongside the New Republic and Empire.

Sadly, it does look likely that it will happen, since in all the years since the only reference we have to any of them is a single line about the Republic and Union having border skirmishes in the Alphabet Squadrons books. I fear down the line we will just get a quick comment about the new states following apart soon after Jakku rather than explore the implications of a multi-polar galaxy.

That would be cool, especially since TFU establishes that there are modern versions of the basilisk.

It would also be a nice touch to both Din's trusting droid storyline and his beast riding one to get a droid beast to ride.

But yeah, sadly I see that as pretty unlikely. Not only is it is pretty obscure as you mention, particularly the modern version which only appeared in the less well known version of a single video game, but the design is somewhat controversial, with KOTOR 2 famously redesigning it because the developers thought it looked stupid.

 

Could be 42s, I guess...? ( :

 

I'm a bit slow in posting this. Already been over a week since the first episode of season three of Mando, so not sure if I need to use spoilers, but just in case I will.
Pirate fighter

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The pirate fighter is pretty neat looking, definitely has some resemblance toward the R41, but looks to be a smaller fighter.
Watching the fight it appears to be around the same width as the N1 Starfighter (N1 I believe is around 6m wide). The Cockpit also points to a smaller fighter - even if the canopy is a bit larger compared to other fighters.

One thing I noticed while looking at screencaps and the end scene concept art, is that the fighter appears to have 4 lasers cannons. If you look at the following image there is what looks like two shorter cannons visible next to the longer ones.

I'm not sure if they are ever used, as the fighter only fires two shots at once (one from each side) and because they are close together it is hard to tell which cannon is firing.

Pirate ship

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I wasn't really expecting to see this ship so soon.
One thing I didn't notice initially is how heavily armed it is. The four quad turrets on the top I had noticed in one of the trailers, but the bottom dual turrets were a surprise.
What was more of a surprise is how many of them there are. On initial viewing I thought it was two or three, but after looking at 4k screencaps I noticed there are at least 7 per side; giving a total of at least 14 dual laser turrets.

There is also something that looks like two triple barreled guns on top of the bridge, but this might just be some sort of greeblie.

Either way the ship has at least 4 quad turrets and 14 dual turrets, giving it a ton of firepower for its size.

Size wise I think the ship is likely corvette size. The bridge looks to be smallish and the bottom guns aren't huge (they look to be tall enough to stand in). If we get a good side on view of the ship with the bottom guns out, it may be possible to calculate an approximate size based on the bottom guns.

 

It's interesting that the bridge's "windows" have the same glow effect (including the bright red lines on the sides) as the hangar and the gaps from which the turret are released, as if they are not really windows but simply "energy barriers" (like the ones we normally see used to keep the atmosphere inside an hangar but allow ships to leave and enter).

Not very safe, but would allow some pretty cool scenes of either someone dramatically leaving or entering the bridge through the barriers.

 

I think, lets have it its firepower but the catch it not all can fire simultaneously. But it can fire them either in quick succession or bring one side to bear while the other rests Hapan Battle Dragon style... yet without the rotation mechanism. That would make sense for a reactor its size and the over-armed state.

 

EC Henry fleshing out a background ship again