Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Nice to finally get a size for the Defender. I noticed it also lists the manufacturer as Mon Calamari, so it's looking like it is a Mon Cal design.

A shame though that Home One's is still listed at 1300m. No way is it that small in Ahsoka.

I know my own measurements put it somewhere around 1000m-1500m, with it possibly being closer to 1000m in size based of the bridge. So it being slightly under that isn't unfeasible.

Oh, and it does appear they got the Sphyrna length right (116.7m)

 

I would be surprised if the size wasn't accurate because when they are such extremely precise numbers they're usually taken directly from the CGI models (while the vaguely 1300m measure for the Home One may in fact not reflect the on screen size).
They do sometimes play around with the models so maybe it was upscaled in some scenes?

 

Well, good catch, plus thanks for manufacturer info.

As for Home One in Ahsoka - the website Rebelscale.com estimates it at 3.2 km, which matches many prevalent estimates - using the hangar and Ghost for yardstick.

 

I was hoping for it to be more of an ISD match for the Defender-class' portfolio, but it doesn't necessarily count it out, we could be looking at a Scythe situation.

 

I doubt it's intended to match a Star Destroyer. In groups of 2-3 , maybe. One of them could probably crack anything the warlords are (openly) fielding at this time period.

I'd put it in the Victory Star Destroyer range for its strength. Great shields (its a moncal design after all) , good carrier capacity (at least 4 squadrons from the looks of things , maybe more) and moderate firepower (It has a few visible turrets, nothing major).

 

hold on everybody lets not forget that 1300 meters is still not that small. i know compared to some things its small, but thats still no small fry

this seems more accurate to me

 

There's a good chance it is accurate, and looking at some of the other ships the sizes do seem to be about reasonably accurate. Of course there's always the chance a wrong size or two slipped in.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if they did play around with the model's scale in some scenes. Would help explain some of the discrepancies I've had when measuring it.

While they did a pretty good job with their estimate, there does appear to be a mistake when they measured the ships length versus the hangars height. Just doing a quick measure of the side view they posted; the hangar is approximately 34px high and the ship is 2534px long (pretty sure the image is scaled down from the original version they used), which makes the ship around 74.5294 times longer than the hangar height. Using their hangar measurements the ships length would be:

• 34.19m hangar height gives a 2548.16m length
• 37.77m hangar height gives a 2814.98m length

So not as big, but still a lot larger than 1300m.

It's probably closer to 2 squadrons at that size, as each hangar likely can only comfortably fit 6 fighters each (depending on fighter type) while still leaving room down the middle for the launching and landing of ships.

 

Checking the Battle of Endor section and aside from the usual question over what class of battlecruiser are the Ilthmar's Fist and Pride of Tarlandia, I found these questions.

1) What subclass of Imperial-class Star Destroyer were the Eleemosynary, Pulsar and Whirlwind?
2) What subclass of Victory-class Star Destroyer was the Dominator?
3) Where did the origin of the 2+ EF76 Nebulon-B escort frigates and 3+ Tartan-class patrol cruisers come from?
4) Where did the origin of the 2+ Assault Frigate Mark II's, 1+ Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser and CR92a Assassin-class corvettes come from?

Then there is the matter of "Corellian battle ships", "cruisers", "destroyers", "carriers", "bombers", "Sullustian cargo freighters", "Calamarian tankers", "Alderaanian gunships", "Kesselian blockade runners", "Bestinian skyhoppers", "shuttles", "transport vehicles" and "manowars" from the RotJ novelisation.

I've come up with ideas for several official classes for several descriptions but I am puzzled on the rest.

• "Sullustian cargo freighter" = Quasar Fire-class bulk cruisers (the Virgillians provide two but the Sullustans likely provided several of their own).
• "Alderaanian gunship" = DP20 gunships crewed by Alderaanians.
• "Kesselian blockade runners" = X4 gunships and CR-series corvettes crewed by Kesselians.
• "Shuttles" = assortment of armed CSS-01 star shuttles, GX-1 short haulers and Taylander shuttles.
• "Transport vehicles" = GR-75 medium transports and Gallofree Yards, Inc. Gozanti cruisers.

Thoughts?

 

Id say that most of the ship terms given by the ROTJ novelization simply describe the various unnamed ships seem throughout the background of the Endor fleet, and we don't need to put names on them or map them one-to-one to things we know.

That being said:

• Quasars fit the "sullustian cargo frieghter", no comment there

• "Alderaanian gunship" is from the passage in the ROTJ novelization that lists off numerous ship types like "Calamarian Tanker" that makes it clear that the intention is "designed by these groups of people" not just "used by x", this is reinforced by the Truce at Bakura sourcebook where the story segment of the vergillian alliance joining the fleet mentions all of these descriptors in a way that implies the main character clocked them by design alone. So Alderaanian Gunship is probably a homebrew design by alderaanians(Alderaan is a Sector and a culture and not just a planet so this makes a good amount of sense).

• The X4 is not actually tied to Kessel, it is just a Galaxies ship that appears, non-exclusively, in the Kessel System(effectively a space PvP and PvE arena ) otherwise it is just treated as a rebel ship and a direct counterpart to the imperial YE-4, rather than being tied to Kessel itself in a significant non-gameplay way. Even the galaxies website's description for it just makes it seem like a generic rebel ship made by the same corporation that made the x and y wings
• I agree with everything else.

 

I tend to think that whatever class the Ilthmar's Fist and Pride of Tarlandia are they need to have a similar front profile to a Star Destroyer, so that they fit into the long distance fleet shot from the movie. Which doesn't leave much choices in known battlecruisers, so maybe an Allegiance class?
Another possibility is that they are just a more powerful and maybe slightly larger variant built off the ISD hull, as the Pride's performance in the battle doesn't seem much better than a Star Destroyer, with it being temporarily disabled after fighting and destroying a single Mon Cal cruiser.

I also think that whatever ship class the Pride of Tarlandia is, it's probably been refitted to fill its role as a communication ship, as the exposed reactors in a cargo bay implies to me that they were added after the ship was constructed.

On the questions
2) The Dominator might be a modified Victory-I. Looking at the Star Wars Armada cards for the Victory-I and Victory-II, the Victory-I has a large scanner array on top of the bridge, while the Victory-II doesn't. The Dominator card also has that array, so possibly is a Victory-I.

3) The 2+ Nebulon-Bs seems to be from the Star Wars Galaxies TCG, specifically a card called It's a Trap. Here's a better image from the original artists deviantart page.

I can only see one frigate (and what could be a Carrack cruiser), so not sure where the extra frigate is coming from.

3/4) The 3 Tartan and 2 Assault Frigate MKII are likely from the SW:EAW Forces of Corruption campaign and are part of the Imperial and Rebel fleet's over Endor and Sullust.

4) The Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser is apparently from X-Wing Alliance but I couldn't see it in any videos of the battle - Unfortunately I don't have a properly working joystick, so I haven't played XWA in years. The CR92a Assassin-class corvette does appear in XWA and is listed in the rebel fleet as the Modified Corvette Masanya.

 

The long-distance shot from RotJ from the Emperor's throne room isn't much to really go on. Mind you, the establishing shot of the Imperial Fleet as the Falcon and fighters gives us 1 SSD and 36 SDs, the latter correctly giving us 33 ISDs and 3 Tectors.

So Victory I-class seems the most likely.

Was this battle in the image actually Endor? And is the Mon Calamari officer Ackbar? Artistic licence on the battle aside, this doesn't really match what we know of the battle. This could easily be the Battle of the Tingel Besh or any other fight really.

Is this the default on the battle in the game or is it someone's own game play?

I saw some gameplay on Youtube and I saw really only the Urjani and Chandi so no sign of a Dreadnaught-class, though I do recall seeing one on a game cover with an Action VI transport or two. The Masanya got retconned into a standard CR90 in the CCG if I recall (but this could easily be an error similar to the Dak Ralter/Kesin Ommis, Hol Okand (Y-wing Gold 6)/? (X-wing callsign unknown), John D. Branon/Nozzo Naytaan, Del Goren/Wyron Serper/Romas "Lock" Navandar/Beryl Chiffonage, Gammall Wirennoc/Umpass-stay situations).

 

I was thinking more of the establishing shot of the Imperial Fleet, and trying to keep the ships at least semi-visually consistent with what's seen on screen. I've also counted 37 ISDs in that scene, but there could always be more behind the Executor, or off screen, leaving room for other ships like the two battlecruisers.

Honestly, I don't know. It's what I found after going down the reference/talk rabbit hole on the Battle of Endor wiki entry. It obviously a reference to that famous line, but as you said it could be any battle. Also the Mon Calamari is probably an officer or crew member, as the rank plaque doesn't match Ackbar's one in the movie.

It's the default fleets that spawns in during the story campaign. This is just before the Battle of Endor, as the game mentions that Vader and the Emperor have gone there, and at the end of the next mission the Death Star is destroyed.

 

The wiki is not always accurate. Maybe they should remove it.

I know from watching game play on YouTube these ships would have names when you run the mouse over it. Are the default names the same or do they vary between playing?

 

I ended up loading XWA (joystick is still dodgy, but works just enough to fly around) and did a quick look at the Endor missions and the two missions before it. No sign of a Dreadnaught, but I did discover that the Masanya is only a Modified Corvette in two mission. In the two missions before the Battle and at least one of the Endor mission it's a normal CR90, so it being a Modified Corvette may have been a mistake in the game all along.

Oh I know. It's why I always try to find/check the original source, which isn't always easy, especially when the reference points to a card game but doesn't say which card it is...

Unfortunately the game doesn't allow you to attack the fleets, so I can't see the ship names, but even if it did they would probably be one of the default names.

 

Andor S2

Spoiler

A Hallmark Christmas ornament outright calls the TIE that Cassian steals a TIE Avenger, so yeah it's not just inspired by it, it is it.

https://www.hallmarkornaments.com/2...ars-Andor--SNEAK-PEEK--AVAIL-OCT_p_33741.html

 

Some more footage of a certain TIE in Andor S2

Spoiler

The number of weapons on the TIE Avenger just keeps increasing. The cylindrical protrusion under the cockpit looks to be some kind of weapon. Don't know what kind yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up being a beam weapon.
The large side guns are much more visible in this trailer, and there's also a head's up display projected on the cockpit glass.

Spoiler

I still think it's probably a prototype version of the TIE Avenger.

 

i just hope it's something interesting

 

Hmm. Has anyone scaled Home One against a 995m Defender-class cruiser? Cause I am pretty sure that the 1300m length DEFINITELY doesn't hold up based on how she appears on screen:







Thoughts?

--Adm. Nick

 

thats a good point maybe ill do the scaling later

 

I've actually got a post in the works going over Home One's length in Ahsoka, and it's mostly complete. So hopefully I'll get it done sometime later today or tomorrow - only took me over a year to get around to writing it up...
But yes, the 1300m length doesn't hold up at all. Home One appears to be, at minimum, a bit over 2.7 times the length of the Defender-class.

 

oh nice! ill take a look at that post

 

Been meaning to post this for a while, but was never fully happy with it.

With the return of Home One to live action in Ahsoka there's the question of what size did they choose to scale it to?
Previously we've got 1200-1300m as the official size, 1900m based on some concept art from Rebels, or anywhere from 1900-3800m based off measurements from the movies.

I'm using two scenes to estimate the length. The first is Ahsoka's shuttles approach to the hangar, to get the hangar's height. The second is the end fleet scene where we get a nice full side shot of Home One, that can be used in conjunction with the hangar height to estimate the length.

To get the hangar's height I ended up using Ahoka's T-6 Shuttle and a X-wing. The shuttle's canon length is listed as 22.8m, and for the X-wing I used a height of 2.4m (13.4m long X-wing).

Using these two ships, the hangar height ends up being:
⦁ X-Wing = 22.8m hangar height
⦁ T-6 shuttle = 25.77m hangar height

Now there's some potential issues with these measurements:

• The hangar midpoint may be off, as the nearest side of the hangar is obscured by the hull, plus the entrance isn't flat but has a platform that sticks out - This is why I decided to also use the X-wing in the hangar measurements.
• The shuttle gets smaller as it approaches the hangar. This is likely because it's moving from the right side of the hangar to the left, when looking in - It doesn't land in the middle of the hangar, but more towards the side the X-wing and Ghost are on.
• The 22.8m length for the shuttle may be wrong. According to Star Wars Ships and Vehicles 92 the shuttle is 20.3m long, which brings the hangar height down to 22.95. This is almost the same height as the X-wing measurements, which could mean that the shuttle length is 20.3m - The shuttle from my own quick measurements is somewhere in the same range as those two sizes, so it's hard to say for sure.
• The X-wing height may be slightly larger than 2.4m. When looking at the Rebel Starfighter Owner's Workshop Manual the height is listed in metric as 2.4m, but it also list it in imperial as 8' 1" which is 2.46m. Also a quick measurement of an X-wing in the show got appoximately 2.5m. So it being between 2.4-2.5m is entirely possible - a one metre difference might not seem like much but could potentially change the final length by 100m.

With the hangar height we can now get an approximate length for Home One

The hangar is 18px high and the ship is around 2476px long, which means the ship length is approximately 137.56 times the height of the hangar. With the previous hangar estimates we get the following lengths:

• 22.8m hangar = 3136.27m length
• 25.77m hangar = 3545.34m length

So it's looking like the the ship is 3+km, and with the shuttle potentially being smaller than it's current canon length of 22.8m, Home One is looking to be around that 3136.27m figure - The 20.3m shuttle gives a length of 3156.6m.

Some additional notes:

• The bridge window may give a smaller size for Home One. In the far shot the bridge lights look a bit too big for a 3+km ship, and in the close up shot the window appears pretty large proportionally to the rest of the pod. I'm wondering if they had originally scaled the ship to a smaller size and later resized it, but never modified the pod to better fit the larger size.
• The Bridge pods also appears to be slightly larger than on the original model. If the ship was scaled smaller at some point they may have had to slightly increase the bridge pod size to fit the bridge set in it.

​

• I did look at some other scenes to estimate the hangar size, but they either had things obscuring parts of the hangar (making it hard to measure the entrance), the hangar was too small and blurry, or the ship I was using to measure the hangar seemed off compared to their canon size (Eta-class shuttle).
• The Ghost in Ahsoka is slightly different from its previous appearances. They modified the bottom so it sits closer to the ground when landed (the middle underside is a bit shorter in height), and the forward gun turret is also a bit more compact. Just something I found when looking at some of the other hangar scenes.
• As always these sort of measurements aren't exactly precise, as a lot of different factors can affect the finale result; slight differences in measuring, different camera angles, position of objects in the shot, image quality, etc.

One finale thing. Since we just recently got a size for the Defender-class it can be used to get an estimate on Home One's size.

As the camera pans across in the end fleet scene, there's a few frames where the Defender and Home One are both fully in the same shot. The Defender is slightly closer to the camera (based on the next scene, where you can see it briefly as the shuttle flies in), so will appear slightly larger than it really is compared to Home One. Which means it can be used to get a lower estimate on Home One's size - Had to take a screenshot off youtube, which is why it's not as high-res as the other images.

Home One is appoximately 2.72 times longer than the Defender, so a 995.7m Defender gives a minimum length of around 2706.26m for Home One. Conversely a 3137.53m Home One would give us a Defender that is at most 1153.91m long, or 1304.42 with the larger 3545.34m size for Home One.

 

great job man! honestly thats really impressive, just wanna say that before talking about the home one itself.

i have a (granted, not the most reliable source, but using for example) source thats saying the t-6 is 23 meters in length, although starwars.com itself says 22.8 meters so that seems most accurate

i saw that when i was watching it but i thought i was insane for it.
overall, while i dont doubt you, in fact i think youre probably correct, 3.5 kilometers just seems too long. thats longer than an imp sd, although thats not really a fair comparison. at the length youve discoverd about 5.3591475 home ones would be an executor. that just blows my mind great job man

 

you also have to consider them changing the scale for the sake of framing a shot or making it look good. Or just cheating the scale like they did with the imperial shuttle and Gideon's Cruiser in Mando

I also remember the Venator's in the opening of ROTS looking a lot bigger than they're canonically said to be.