Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Yes it does, the Imperial Sourcebook is very specific on this. According to the Imperial Sourcebook, a Force Superiority contained a minimum of three Imperial-class Star Destroyers. A Superiority fleet is specified to have had six Imperial-class Star Destroyers and a Sector Group was made up of among others four Superiority Fleets, what number of Imperial-class ISDs does that give? Yes, that's right, 24.

 

Brak Sector had a Sector Group with 30 Imperial-class Star Destroyers, but that could have been a typo.

 

And who does that? We know that the Empire had "thousands" of sector groups, sector groups that included a minimum of 24 Imperial-class Star Destroyers each (see my and the others' posts above). McEwok hasn't done much to back up his belief with canon evidence.

 

The Imperial Starfleet at its height operated over 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers, which combined with the repeated average of 24 per Sector Group would seem to indicate an implicit ret-con of an Empire with only a thousand Sectors and attendant Sector Groups.

While the initial image of the Empire presented by the Imperial Sourcebook represents better than 50k Imperial Star Destroyers we know that not to be true.

The Empire does have a million major systems and another 50 million colonies, protectorates, governorships, as well as client states, et al.

It could command thousands of Sectors, but not thousands of Sector Groups.

 

I was not aware that the statement in the ISB (stating that the Empire had thousands of Sector Groups) had been retconned... Or has it really?

EDIT: Alright, I see what you mean. Then one mustn't forget the 60,000 Victory-class Star Destroyers... However, I consider that a minimum (where was the 25,000 figure "fixed", so to speak as I haven't seen the ISB statement retconned?).

 

We have Admiral Pellaeon?s statement the Starfleet commanded over 25,000 Star Destroyers at the height of the Empire and we have a quote, forget who posted it originally, from one of the Core Rulebooks saying 25,000 Imperial Star Destroyers.

Of course, operating from the Imperial Sourcebook alone gives us at least 48,000 and perhaps better than 72,000 Imperial Star Destroyers.

The actual number of Star Destroyers in general is much higher than 25,000.
We have numerous Victory-class Star Destroyers, so many in fact that a basic Heavy Squadron Unit operates one as a center-piece and the Empire feels comfortable selling hundreds to client state such as the Corporate Sector. Based on the basic Sector Group Order of Battle there could be 20 Victory for every 24 Imperial.

We know the Republic Navy operates thousands of Venator-class Star Destroyers, and those that survived the Clone War were absorbed into the new Imperial Navy.

We also have dozens of Executor-class Star Dreadnoughts and a number of intermediary Star Destroyer designs from the Tector to the Dominator, Communications Ship, and Allegiance.

However, despite McEwok's machinations the Acclamator, Vindicator, and Immobilizer 418 are not Star Destroyers, but Cruisers, in the case of the Vindicator a Star Cruiser.

Perhaps, in total, the Imperial Navy could operate better than 50,000 Star Destroyers to watch over thousands of Sectors, and the main force of 25,000 Imperial-class vessels are retained in the Galactic Core with the million major systems.

 

Darn, I forgot about the Pellaeon quote... Still, I'm not quite sold, but it's the best we have I guess.

 

Well, Pellaeon has been wrong before ...

 

Yes, that was my point as well...

 

In the spirit of McEwok, of using all cannon sources and trying to not throw anything out. I have thought long and hard about how to make the Movies ImpStar , LTL, MTL and HTL. Mesh with the WEG?s 60 MTL.

At first I thought it would be simple to just place the WEG 60 XX9 in the trench (Were its hard to see) in addition to the 12 HTL and other MTL. But I don?t think that some people will go for it. Even though it doesn?t throw out any thing. It just shows that WEG was not completely accurate.

So then I decided to look at what the Movie ImpStar looks like and the WEG ImpStar looks like. I have come to a interesting conclusion and an easy way to recon it so both are 100% right. It all involves one letter. V and a typo.

My recon is that the WEG ImpStar?s are not mark I and II but actually Mark VI and VII. The missing V is just a unfortunate typo.

If you look at the movie model and WEG picture they are similar but clearly different ships.

Here is a side view picture of the Mark I ImpStar seen in ANH. +++http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/Xbarbican/eydc5/5r16isd.jpg
And here is a picture of the WEG Mark VI ImpStar
+++http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Victory_size.jpg

Now the most obvious difference is the Mark VI lack of broad side HTL and the missing quad MTL in the trench notch. Also the mid ship forward MTL are missing. But a not so obvious difference is the bridge is a little larger both in width and length. More armored looking. It actually more similar to a Mark II style bridge. The Mark VI reactor bulge is also farther back, closer to the engines then a Mark I which are exactly half way between the main hanger and the engines. There is also what looks like ether a tower or gun barrel (most likely a XX9) or missile tube, sticking out of the main hanger bay. The trench of the Mark VI is dark and scratchy looking compared to the Mark I which is easer to see into. But the scratchiness is probably were all the 60 MTL XX9 and 60 Ion cannons are located.

So in short the WEG ImpStar Mark VI is a newer Stardestroyer. Both designed to do different jobs. The Mark I is a general purpose model and the Mark VI seems to be set up to be more anti-fighter and anti-Star Frigate. With smaller guns but greater coverage and rate of fire.

Now you may have been wondering if WEG ImpStars are Mark VI and VII what happened to the other models in between. The answer is simple. They have been made and we have seen them. We just didn?t notice.

I?ll list them. ImpStar.
Mark I +++http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/Xbarbican/eydc5/5r16isd.jpg
General purpose, jack of all trades.

Mark II +++http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/Xbrooklyn/Isd29.jpg
Escort Destroyer and heavy ship engagement model. The Tector is most likely a spin off of this or Mark III.

Mark III +++http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/de/allegiance.jpg
A beefed up Mark II with the brim notches filled in (probably more shields or reactors). The picture is of the Emancipator killing a Allegiance Star Curser and two Mark V ImpStars.

Mark IV +++http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/vq/Interdictor4.jpg
A ImpStar with gravity wells. Kind of obvious. Heavy ambusher. First ImpStar to lose the big HTL. Most likely the Dominator is a spin off of the Mark IV +++http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/xwing/xwtpa6.jpg

Mark V +++http://www.theforce.net/swtc/Pix/comics/de/cover_d2.jpg
The bridge is sunken into the neck and dorsal terraces. It also has the larger bridge like the Mark VI will have. It seems to be heavily armored and most likely a carrier ImpStar.

Mark VI and Mark VII +++http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Victory_size.jpg
Appears to be a more modular design. Similar to the Strike cruiser. Probably takes half the time to build with unified weapons types (XX9).

 

I don't know what to say... no?

 

Yeah- I noticed the reference to 300 pickets. We have at least three Alliance Fleets (2nd, 3rd, 5th) blockading the Corellian System. Of course, with at least Nine Fleets in the GA at this point, they can afford to put three into dealing with the current crisis and maintain adequate defenses throughout the GA. And, don't forget that besides 9 federal fleets you have at least two Hapan fleets and the Remnant's fleet also working with the GA.

On a side note- the Fourth Fleet in TUF was composed of both Alliance and Imperial warships. IIRC, the fleet is described as having Pellaeon's Star Destroyers, some Carracks, Strike Cruisers, some MC80b's, Corellian gunships, and other warships.

I have wondered if the Fourth Fleet is now a all-Alliance fleet or if it may in fact be composed of three seperate groups- Alliance warships, Hapan, and Imperial?

--Adm. Nick

 

More somewhat interesting tidbits from Hasbro: Imperial Attack Cruiser.

Even as Emperor Palpatine consolidates his power through the destruction of the last few Jedi and the annihilation of the final Separatist planets, this second generation of Venator-class cruisers rolls off the assembly line. Now referred to as "Star Destroyers" by the new Imperial Navy, the arrowhead profile that once represented security and safety to citizens of the Republic quickly comes to represent the murderous oppression and iron-fisted rule of the fledgling Empire.

 

That was very interesting! Great find, Rogue!

 

How are they different from the first generation (aside the paint-job)?

 

My first thought from looking at that model was that the dorsal surface appears to be more "boxy" and so perhaps the dorsal flight deck has been eliminated. But that was my first thought...

 

Well, the Venator has to be converted for TIEs in some way, if the Empire wants to use the ship years/decades after the clone-wars or make it a carrier for blast- and gunboats only. In light of that I have to wonder at the ease with which they switched from VNSDs to ISDs (and what fighters did the early Victories employ?). Shouldn't the hangars of the ISDs have been designed for V-Wings instead of TIEs?

 

Here's the Titanium Series Republic Attack Cruiser for comparison. These things are great, since they actually include some good information on the cardbacks. For example, the ARC-170 included shield power and range information which (IIRC) could not be found elsewhere.

 

Anyone know of any Fighter Sweep battles in the Galatic Civil War? For both the Empire and Rebellion side? And the reason for the Fighter Sweep?

 

While not a bad idea Outrider, it simply takes to much work.
The 60 XX-9 batteries would make most sense in the brim trenches of the Imperial-class Star Destroyers, considering their fire arcs pursuant to the RPG.

We even have unidentified batteries spread across the brim trench in intervals that appear to look somewhat like the old concept art for Turbolasers, without the barrels.

http://theforce.net/swtc/Pix/Xbarbican/eydc5/5r19isd.jpg


As for the Venator-II it does not appear the vessel?s primary Heavy Turbolasers have been changed, both models of the vessel maintain the 8 mounts.

Perhaps a simple upgrade of power and shields? Perhaps armor?

 

I'm thinking it is just a new paint job

seriously though, the only way to change the venator in any significant way would be to chew up hanger space and place more shielding and generators in there

 

Yes, it seems to me as if those figures were left out of the ROTS:ICS.