Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Hello all,

I have two ship-related questions that are probably very easy for you guys to answer, but always bugged the heck out of me:

1- On an ISD or the Executor, I know that the main bridge is in that big T-shaped tower with the two spheres on it (allegedly shield generators or sensors). But the actual command bridge itself, where is it on that tower? Is it in that little tower between the spheres? Or part of the cross-piece on which the two spheres sit (where you shoot your torpedo to destroy the ISD in both Rogue Squadron II and Rebel Assault I)?

2- Vulture droids: not actually ships, but fighter-craft nonetheless that you guys may be able to help me with. In Episode I, the Vulture droid's weapons are in the wings, between the "legs" when in flight mode. I think that's where they were in Episode III too. But in TCW, Vulture Droids only ever use laser cannons (or blasters, I'm not sure) found in the main body, just in front of the head. Was this a refit design? Or did all Vulture Droids have these blasters before, and never use them? If so, why do they never use the original between-the-wings ones now?

Thank you!

 

Since I own the book, I have used that page for the purposes of this discussion. It says very clearly what the total assembly of the ion cannon is, including a 1km gap between the cannon's own reactor, the main generator and the targeting computers for the cannon, and the power-source remotely powering the entire assembly as well as the rest of the base.

What does that have to do with it? A base and its defenses are fueled by a main reactor assembly, just like any other structure.

The base reactor assembly powers all the other reactors and generators in turn, enabling them to turn the energy into usable forms for each purpose. When you plug in an appliance, it gets its power from somewhere else, the appliance doesn't work by itself. Likewise, the reactors in various SW equipment work in a network, onboard capital ships, inside bases etc.

The main reactors on Massassi Base and the Echo Base powers all the other generators for each individual equipment (shield generators, gun generators, life-support equipment etc.) It even says in the Rebellion Era Campaign Guide, which came before all these books, that the Rebels installed "a power generator, an energy shield and a planetary defense heavy ion cannon to protect the base". The base works like any city or town powered by a remote main energy provider and the defenses are part of that base.

If this is not the case, and the ion cannon is supposed to work independently, is there any example where this is actually stated? Since the same illustration notes that the "main power generator" for the ion cannon assembly is different from the reactor located right underneath the gun itself, and it is remotely linked to the main base reactors in turn? What the reactor tied to the gun does, is provide its ionized shots, from the look of things. And it is connected physically to the main generator, which in turn is connected to the main base reactors. And how is the main reactors going to supply energy in an "emergency" if they're all linked in a series rather than a parallell network? If there's a problem with the generator/targeting assembly, how's the energy going to pass through?

 

The local shield projectors are the vanes sticking up from the sensor globe. (ITWT)

The command bridge is the tiny bulge sticking out from the tower at about the middle center area of the face of the tower. You see it more clearly on the Executor's modular tower design. In this cut-out illustration, it has a hallway leading to it, below the blue tanks.

The original lase cannon design never made any sense when they were walking. The thing in the main body is supposed to be a energy torpedo launcher, but in later stories, this got turned into laser cannons instead.

 

Why thank you, sir!

The Vulture droid explanation makes sense, it just always bugged me that the logical version is unique to TCW.

And the Bridge thing makes sense too. I assume, based on the bulge, that you're referring to the lowermost hallway in the middle of the cutout? The one that's slightly longer than the others and connects to a bulge? That bulge is the exact place you fire torpedoes into in Rogue Squadron II (over Kothlis) and Rebel Assault I (over Tatooine).

 

No, it again just says "remotely linked".
The diagram isn't clear at all - there's a reactor just under the cannon, a 'power generator' located deep underneath, and the 'base main reactors' which are 'remotely linked'.
The NEGWT and Databank is clear about what powers the the Ion Cannon.

Indirect inferences don't cancel out direct information presented elsewhere.

A reactor isn't an appliance, a reactor produces energy. If it required an external power source to run, it wouldn't be a reactor.
As I stated, the most you can draw from this is that the Ion Cannon can draw from the main base reactors in case of an emergency failure.
However, since the shield completely collapsed when the above-ground "power generator" for it was destroyed, even that inference is questionable.

You mean besides the NEGWT and Databank?
Find a quote that says "The Ion Cannon was powered by the Hoth main base generators." or "While self-contained, the Ion Cannon required additional power from larger reactors in order to function" or something along that nature.

If that's the case, what other function does the Ion Cannon have that requires additional power from elsewhere? Or are you saying when they said "reactor" they meant something else?
The NEGWT says "powered by a massive reactor buried some forty meters below ground."
The Databank says "It draws power from a dedicated reactor typically sunken into the ground 40 meters beneath the emplacement."

 

I have the book, and there's a line going from the reactor to the main generator, which also houses the targeting computers for the ion cannon. Fine, I'm sure that reactor can power it as well, but there's a main generator underneath it, and it is linked to the base's main reactors in turn. Whether the ion reactor is the one used in an emergency or not, isn't stated. I would think it would be, since there'd only be a use for it if the lines are broken to the main base. If enemy forces hits the gun area, there wouldn't be a need for remote emergency reactors in the first place.

Neither does your "emergency use" speculation.

Then why are most reactor assemblies in the Dorling Kindersley books hooked up to multiple sources, some in direct connection to one another? The ion cannon having not one, but three at most.

When the generator explodes, I assume whatever cables and pipes connected to it are destroyed as well. And there is a large fireball showing where the generator used to be, little room for any rerouting at that point.

If one of the authors who worked on the book compares the reactors to earlier reactor equipment in Massassi Base from the same book isn't enough, I don't know what is.

Why would he compare reactor equipment if they didn't serve the same purpose?
And I still have no explanation for the assumption that the main base reactors only power the ion assembly after the one reactor line leading to it has been destroyed or disabled. If that reactor is disabled somehow, I ask again, how will it be replaced in the first place?

LFL often switches between generator and reactor for power equipment. Once again, the main generator is located 1km underneath the cannon reactor, complete with targeting computers for the cannon. That assembly in turn is linked to the base main reactors.

Are you putting a distinction between the two military bases, and the first had no reactors for its shields and ion cannons, which makes no sense, as the entire book has every little object equipped with its own personal power generator of some kind (Toshe Station has its own fusion reactor taken from an "insystem space barge" for instance), and that's the reason why they needed a main power reactor to power everyt

 

Which I've stated is pure speculation. It's incidental to my main point.

Speculate away. But there's no direct statement about the specific Ion Cannon reference, while we have other sources that do. The Ion Cannon draws power from a dedicated reactor 40m below.

So why have a "power generator" at all? Why not just directly connect it to the "main base reactors?" Or have a separate line to the shield generator from the "main base reactors"?
Chances are is that it's another self-contained unit like the Ion Cannon that has its own power source and doesn't require a connection to anything else.

There's a quote in the Hoth section that directly compares the reactor equipment to the Yavin base? Or are you just referring to the separate quotes describing where each base got the reactor equipment from?
Edit:SWTC isn't canon, and nor is authorial intent.
(a) we know nothing about ship that the reactors for Hoth base used and (b) The Hoth base section still doesn't mention anything about what the "main base reactors" powered, unlike the Yavin base description. It's speculation.

Reactor has one meaning. The NEGWT and Databank clearly state that the Ion Cannon derives its power from the dedicated reactor 40 km below the surface. Those are definitive statements from other canonical works.

 

No, it isn't. Your entire point revolves around one reactor 40m below. Why did the makers of ITWT bother to include not one, but two separate power generators that are connected to that machine as well, in their dedicated ion cannon drawing? That's because they're part of its overall power system. The headline of that fold-out section is "Ion Blast" and is all about the ion cannon and its support systems. The fold-out picture is named "Ion Cannon" on Dorling Kindersley's website. Lo and behold, it includes that generator 1km below as well.

No need, when I have the book and picture on the publisher's website telling me these are all parts of the ion cannon array.

For emergency purposes? Who knows how the SW engineers think.

How does the actual core, which is a tiny part of the picture, get any kind of additional energy support, if not from other power sources, like the generator that is on the same drawing, a drawing called "Ion Cannon".

No, but I assumed the passage "Power Supply" would also be relevant for the other only base we see the Rebels have, a base also detailed in the same book and which doesn't have a section on its power supply.

An author has more insight than what we have. I don't need anything else if it's from someone who worked on the book and has as much right to note this in a discussion as any idea by non-authors.

Except where it is said to be connected to the ion cannon that protects the base, which is similar to how the earlier base and its defenses were connected to another reactor. The Rebellion Era Sourcebook says the Rebel engineers put a power generator, a shield, and an ion cannon into the base.

Which in turn is added to by the Complete Locations, which shows more of the actual power assembly for the ion cannon, in words that follow a picture called "Ion Cannon".

 

And yet still doesn't say anything about what it's for (mainly because it's the exact same picture as the one in the CL) unlike - again, the references to the Ion Cannon elsewhere which clearly state what powers it.
So what does that 'power generator' do? Like you said, "Who knows how the SW engineers think."

It doesn't constitute proof, nor does it make it canon - especially when it conflicts with actual canonical statements.

Let's see a quote that says "The Hoth Ion Cannon was powered by the base's main reactors."

Really? The words 'power assembly for the ion cannon' appear in the diagram?
The NEGWT and Databank, again, clearly state what powers the Ion Cannon. Again, let's see an actual statement that says, specifically, what the "main base reactors" power.

And here's a third source:
"The v-150 is a massive independently powered ion cannon...Each gun comes with its own reactor, which is then buried 40 meters beneath the actual implacement." - ISB

 

Alright, fine, the actual cannon only has that reactor to begin with. I don't know where DK is coming from adding more to the assembly, in a picture so clearly called Ion Cannon by them.
From the picture in the books, scanned and posted at Wookieepedia it's very clearly a power generator that is physically linked with the reactor underneath the cannon, and since the entire picture is called "Ion Cannon" on the DK website, I foolishly assumed it was a part of the cannon assembly, as this picture deceptively shows.

 

The generator in that image could be the one normally buried 40 meters down, but due to necessity on Hoth, such as safety if the reactor goes up, it was buried much further down and the trunk line extended up to the gun. Normally these things are buried in rock.

 

Yeah, the EGtWT qualifies the 40 meters figure with a "normally."

Also, we should remember that there were two ion cannons on Hoth. One at the landing zone, and one at Outpost Beta. See: the Rogue Leader game. This is useful, continuity-wise, since it lets us easily retcon any minor discrepancies about the ion cannon.

For example, the Movie Trilogy Sourcebook states that the ion cannon was captured by snowtroopers, when most other source indicate that the Rebels blew it up to cover their final retreat. Perhaps the Outpost Beta cannon was captured, while the one near the landing zone was self destructed.

 

On a totally non-ion cannon note, what kind of ship is Dass Jennir mucking about with in Dark Times? It's a very handsom vessel, but my Wikipedia-fu was weak, and I learned nothing about it.

 

Doing more reading of the MTSB, there's some good stuff here. For example, Fett figured out that the Falcon was hiding on the Avenger by... looking out the window.

Fett's suspicions were confirmed by a simple glance out of the Executor's observation ports at the conning tower of the nearby Avenger.

Also, it confirms that Han used the Falcon's backup hyperdrive to get to Bespin. And the Executor arrived in the Bespin system before the Falcon (which makes sense, but it's nice to have it confirmed.)

 

Which matches what the Databank says, right... but the NEGWT says "the Hoth Planet Defender was powered by a massive reactor buried some forty meters below the ground."
In any case, I think the original point of contention was whether or not it was actually run off the main base reactors or not.
Rogue Leader had two? Oh, dear...
But you're right, it can be retconned and we should return to Fleet Junkie business post-haste! (Before we're all terribly distracted by the Essential Atlas. 4 days! )

Edit: I believe that WEG's entire concept of 'backup hyperdrive' came as a retcon for the Falcon's journey to Bespin, but I can't source it unfortunately.

 

WOW.

 

Right, we've always known that Vader, Fett, and some Imperials arrived early. There was just a possibility they had taken a fast shuttle(s), and the Ex hadn't arrived yet. But I'll concede the point...

 

ISD Design flaw #64818: Not enough windows on the rear of command tower. Provides large blind spot.
Solution: Assign Bounty Hunters to watch rear of tower from another vessel.

 

Rogue, which one do you have, the original or the later one? (I presume you're talking about the WEG manual, and not the more recent RECG).

 

The Essential Atlas also states that the Falcon used a backup hyperdrive to reach Bespin on its map for TESB.

 

The original, from 1993. I think it's a collection of Galaxy Guides 1, 3, and 5. It has a lot of interesting minor stuff that you don't often hear about.

e.g. the Mos Eisley cantina was firebombed after Jabba's death, the Imperials Luke surrenders to on Endor wanting their picture taken with him, etc...

 

Ah, I wondered what was in the original one. I have the one for the Special Edition... not so great (I believe it was made during WEG's dying days as a quick cash-in).

 

Controversial statement of the week: Even nearly 15 years after it's release, I still enjoy Darksaber by Kevin J. Anderson.

Don't get me wrong, the guy needs to understand that an MC90 cannot take on a SSD, regardless of whether it is 8km, 12km, or 19km.

However, I still enjoy the basic plotlines of the story. Sure we get yet ANOTHER superweapon, but several of the plot threads still stand out in my mind after all these years. I have been re-reading the scences with Daala and the warlords with great interest, given her role in FOTJ.

Besides, KJA gave me the Galactic Voyager. The toughest damned MC90 in the entire New Republic fleet.

I have begun flipping through the old Bantam books, and I must confess I am a bit nostalgic at the moment. Especially at all the old ships that I keep remembering.

Mon Remonda
Galactic Voyager
Yaravis
Dodonna
Rebel Dream
Redemption
Freedom
Startide
Larkhess
Peregrine

Ah, those were the days. And by days, I mean the time when authors took the time to clarify what classes of ships were in a fleet and used more than the generic "Star Destroyer", "Cruiser", and "Frigate" that we get nowadays.

--Adm. Nick

 

I actually consider Darksaber to be one of KJA's stronger SW stories - the 'superweapon' cliche is subverted since the thing never worked.
And he wrote a bunch of fleet action, moreso than the entire JAT.