Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

Having a few ship models that are a few centuries old still in service is nothing compared to the Hammerhead's possibly three-thousand years of service. Which will hopefully be retconned by Knight Errant at some points, especially with TOR and their Thranta-class probably becoming more prevalent.

But anyway, back to the main point, this issue had tons of OT-era ships from the good old Corellian Corvette to an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. And correct if I'm wrong, but I think the Impstar was part of Stazi's fleet! Guess the venerable old Imperial-class can still fight, since it was fighting alongside the normal GA Core Fleet capital ships- Scythes, Shashores, Tri-Scythe and the Alliance, of course, and firing green lasers like the rest of the GA ships. Looks like Stazi's fleet has at least several Star Destroyers now, based on one shot, and based on which ships are firing green lasers (as even the stolen Imperious fires green lasers now).

It sounds like the evacuation fleet came from across the galaxy, volunteers with ships who are outraged at the Sith killing all life on Mon Calamari, which explains the very large selection of ships seen in this issue. At least one Venator was part of the evac fleet, as was the Corvette, and a G9 Rigger, Anakin's ship from TCW cartoon series, and there's a Nebulon-B frigate too in one panel, along with an Interdictor cruiser (though that's not too surprising as interdiction ships have fallen out of use, according to the Campaign Guide, and we already saw one used in the Hidden Temple's construction) on another page. As well as the tankers from Legacy #42, there are also at least several (?) Mon Cal (Liberty-type, I think) cruisers too. The Grinning Liar transport is also there to help with the evac, and the old Gallofree Yards transports too. And what looked like a Mon Cal design with really wide wings? Not sure what that was.

When the Sith Imps (Pellaeons and Predators) show up to try and take out the GA Remnant, Stazi launches several drone ships at the Imps- what look like a Venator, a Mon Cal Cruiser, a CR90 Corvette, and several other silhouettes. When the Imps don't detect any lifesigns aboard, they figure those are droid bombs and blow them up, which set off the ion bombs Stazi had hidden inside, temporarily blinding the Imp ships and letting Stazi take out five of their capital ships. Since they're all decades old ships, might as well use them as bombs.

Stazi is having a hard time shielding all the evac ships, when Fel Imps show up and assist Stazi in driving off the Sith Imps then in evacuating more people.

So, tons of ships, and Stazi takes out quite a few Star Destroyers, with help from the Fel Imps, and they evacuate quite a few Mon Cals and other sentients from Dac, but alas, they still save only a small percentage of Dac's huge population. Still though, its probably one of the biggest evacuations I can think of in Star Wars, and its one we actually see (rather than governments fleeing in a frenzy whenever the planet, like Coruscant for instance, falls to an invasion fleet).

And looks like Stazi is steadily building up his fleet as well, always nice to see more variety from a fleet that's on the run, so they need all the ships they can get, even old GCW-era warships, though I'm still fond of seeing Scythe cruisers. Let's see, I think there's the Imperial-class, several other Star Destroyer

 

Like Nobody said, all of the older Clone Wars and GCW-era warships and transports were from across the galaxy. Private citizens risking their ships and their lives to save as many of Dac's people as they could. It was actually a really powerful part of the issue, as it provided a sense of hope that the galaxy still had good in it, despite the Sith's control.

Stazi's fleet was packing some serious firepower. One panel shows the following ships opening fire on the Sith Fleet:

x1 Imperious-class Star Destroyer Alliance
x7 Scythe-class battle cruisers
x2 Tri-Scythe-class frigates
x4 Pellaeon-class Star Destroyers

The evacuation fleet was massive (comics can only portray so much on one panel, so many were "off screen"), as Jhoram Bey tells Stazi that nearly 20% of the planets population was rescued. That is roughly five billion people, to say nothing of the transports that saved some Moappa and Whaladons. Despite their collaboration with the Sith, Stazi diverted one 1/10th of his evac fleet to save Quarren as well.

--Adm. Nick

 

Excellent. I love little peeks at the larger galaxy like this, gives you a picture of other parts having their own stories and histories that we only see a tiny piece of once in a while.

 

Having read it now, it was truly one of the greatest issues of a SW comic I've ever read. It's really jampacked with detail and great character interaction, but enough about that, let's get to the ships.

One Venator is used in the evac fleet, another as a drone ship loaded with explosives. MC80 Liberty type cruisers (both with and without wing-sections, like ROTJ) are used in the evacuation, several winged Libertys also used as drone ships. I was almost about to say the mysterious winged ship was this type, but then I saw something in a panel that doesn't correspond to that design nor to the "Whales". It's hard to describe, almost like a cross between a winged Liberty and a Scythe, but with horizontal fins stretching out from the front, arching back, and it's apparantly bigger than the Alliance. The Alliance being pictured as larger than an Imperial, which it is seen firing at Pellaeons with in one panel.

So, my personal guess is it might possibly be a Mediator. Reason being it's a good transitional design from the Liberty to the Scythe, and it's bigger than an Imperious, let alone an ISD, thus matching the descriptions in the EU so far.

 

You mean the one in the panel where Stazi gives the order to shield the evac fleet? I could buy that being a Mediator; there doesn't seem to be much of an existing description for the class.

 

It just seems to fit the recurring trend of design lineages, so might as well be. I hope it shows up in Invasion though, to add fuel to the fire.

 

I was thinking it might be a Mon Calamari starliner. A starliner would be useful for an evacuation, especially if that one was the GFFA version of the Titanic. For arguments sake, if that starliner is a few kilometers long and at least a few wide it would be able to hold a HUGE number of refugees.

Speaking of scale, I am now firmly convinced that the Scythe-class battle cruiser is NOT 1/3rd the size of the Pellaeon-class, as Randy Stradley originally assumed way back when #8 came out. While I understand that scalign warships from comic art is a fruitless task, every appearance of the Scythe-class shows it to be closer to half the size of the PSD's, possibly even more. Trip posted a great chart a few years back showing the Scythe at various scales. I am leaning towards 800m-1km.

BTW, did anyone notice Stazi use a variation of the Ackbar Slash? After the decoy ships are destroyed and the ion bombs detonated, Stazi issues the following order:

"Stazi to all capital ships- begin your runs through the enemy lines! They won't be blind for long!"

The very next panel shows the Alliance in between two PSD's blasting away from both sides. I sent John Ostrander a PM asking about whether this was the Ackbar Slash, and his response was that it is probably Stazi's variation of the Slash.

--Adm. Nick

 

Cool!

I agree it could very well be a starliner, the Mon Cal have a history with those after all.

Wonder why we never saw any Home Ones, though. Or are they saving them up for a final attack in #50?

 

Well, besides the fact that the Home One-type is also over a century old, they never seemed that common. Home One, Independence, and Defiance are the only three we know of for sure.

When the final attack comes, I expect a massive number of Scythe battle cruisers and Pellaeon Star Destroyers. The modern capital ships of 137 ABY seem to be in many ways superior to those of the Galactic Civil War.

--Adm. Nick

 

I know, I was thinking in terms of massive drone ship-style attacks.

 

Ah, sorry, my bad.

The drone attacks were rather clever. I liked the use of ion bombs. In general, the Expanded Universe overlooks the usage of ion weapons. Which I always considered rather strange, considering that the ion cannon is such an iconic part of The Empire Strikes Back. In just those few short moments that the Sith fleet was disabled, Stazi's forces were able to destroy or disable five Star Destroyers.

Speaking of which, did anyone else get the impression that the Second Battle of Dac (137 ABY) cost the Sith Empire alot of ships? Stazi's forces drive off the initial Sith forces in orbit over Dac (probably destroying several), then he inflicts another serious blow during his ion bomb/Ackbar Slash attack, and then the combined GA/Felpire armada catches the Third Imperial Fleet in a pincer.

With such losses and deprived of the Mon Calamari shipyards, I imagine that the Sith's control of the Outer Rim's north eastern quadrants will be very difficult, to say the least.

--Adm. Nick

 

Alright, those pictures confirm the existence of weapons within the side-trench of the Imperious-class.

I'm not happy with the large winged MC-ship, the vessel seems to be wider than long and I don't think wing-like structures make sense on that scale. It would be better, if the artists tried to think more like engineers.

The stern of the ISD is different from the time of the OT. One has to wonder at the purpose of that change assuming it is deliberate and not just an artistic screw-up.

Did the ion-bombs actually hit the target-vessels or did they explode away from them? A lot of weapons are seen once (or twice) and never seen again (like Cluster-traps in TTT and LSaSoM).

20% of the MonCals evacuated? Is this 20% of the original population or 20% of those still alive at that point of time?

 

You'd think they would count the ones alive at that time, which would be less than the ones before the extermination program began, i.e. 10% were killed back then.

The "flying-wing" cruiser actually doesn't look too bad, given the assumption that the wing-blisters hold turbolaser batteries, thus following a focused fire-strategy like the Scythe-class.

 

That is the problem - "looks". Style over substance. As long as the thing looks cool. I'm more worried, that the wings don't break off during tight manouvers. Not to mention the long way from the ships reactor to the cannons, of there are really any within the wing. Or the bent corridors. And so on.

 

The Imps thought the drone ships were droid bombs at first, and blew them up before they could get "too close", but that still set them off and disabled all of their sensors, long enough for Stazi's forces to come in close and take out five of their capital ships (which were probably Star Destroyers as I don't think there were any frigates in the big fleet shots). Then Stazi's forces retreated to their original positions of guarding the evac fleet.

The ISD probably isn't all that different from the original model, it overall is lacking some detail, but its still obviously an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. Although they've probably updated the turbolasers to whatever current specs are. The stern is probably just the artist's interpretation, but its still pretty recognizable.

The big winged Mon Cal design doesn't strike me as too odd, maybe there are engines on the wings too, maybe not, I don't understand engineering too much, and its a very pretty design, which fits with the Mon Calamari design aesthetic.

The ion bombs probably won't work again, as the Sith now know to be on the lookout for drone ships. Either they'll blow them up even further away, or just knock them out with their own ion cannons (assuming they remember they have their own ion cannons), or spread their ships further apart.

And yeah, Stazi's fleet is showing a lot more variety than back during #20/21, the Indomitable arc. And while they're still heavily outnumbered, they're chipping away at the fleets. When they arrived at Dac, they either blew up five Star Destroyers or forced them to retreat. Stazi's ion bomb maneuver took out five more Star Destroyers, and then when Fel's forces arrived, the Sith fleet was forced to retreat entirely. Stazi lost a few ships, but still, a pretty impressive show of force on his part.

 

I was considering it from a military perspective, not an aesthetic one. The Scythe basically is a clear example of this line of thinking, with a forward-heavy focus that might leave the sides and stern exposed to enemy fire. Not saying it's the most ideal of designs, but at least with things like tensor field tech and compensators of every kind in SW, some awkward designs can work in practice there.

 

Speaking of Mon Cal starliners...is it just me, or do those not get seen as much as they should, consider the Mon Cal's history. It seems like most Mon Cal ships were see are warships. Granted, star wars is military focused, but even when we do see civilian ships it is almost always light freighters. Starliners in general seem rare, and I can't remember ever seeing a Mon Cal one, aside from the Quarren senator's personal ship and the one from the General Grievous comic.


Which makes me think of something else: how do people without their own starships get around? Luxury liners, ferryboats, or maybe just shuttles...I wonder what the 747 of Star Wars is...

 

Yeah, if we assume that the majority of the Outer Rim Third Fleet is destroyed, that means that the GA/Felpire alliance has basically cost Darth Krayt's Empire two full fleets. And when we consider that the galaxy is approaching open rebellion due to the genocide on Dac, I imagine that the Sith are forced to deploy more and more fleets from the Core to maintain order.

In terms of Stazi's fleet, I am pretty sure that it is on the scale of other galactic fleets. Legacy #47 showed Stazi deploying the Alliance, seven Scythe battle cruisers, a pair of Tri-Scythe frigates, a ShaShore frigate, and a quartet of captured Pellaeon-class Star Destroyers. At Ralltiir, Stazi had eight or more additional ShaShore frigates and just under a dozen Sabertooth assault ships. And as #42 shopwed, he has at least one Ardent-class frigate.

Now, it is important to remember that comics are not typically the best venue for seeing large fleets, due to the limited space and the fact that drawing a fleet that has 100 capital ships is alot of work for an artist on a deadline. Therefore, what we see in a comic is often just a portion of an overall battle. Following this principle, Stazi's fleet is probably quite larger that what we "see" on any given panel.

--Adm. Nick

 

Well, we do see a starliner bringing passengers into Coruscant in Wedge's Gamble as well as the Tinta Lines ships in I, Jedi, which seems to be the typical way civs get from planet to planet. The big Mon Cal ship would make a great starliner, but I'm understandably itching to see an official depiction of the Mediator even more.

Of course, I would have really had my socks knocked off if the Guardian and a couple Viscounts came creaking out of retirement for the job, but then the awesomenesss level might have gone critical

 

You are remembering correctly, Sinre. In #42 Admiral Kelsan basically says that Stazi lacks the ships to take on the entire Imperial fleet at Ralltiir. Of course, this could just be bluster on the part of Kelsan, but I have a hunch that ship for ship the Imperials had the edge. At Ralltiir, there is a minimum fleet strength of nine PSD's and eight frigates, based on one panel. (Again, my metric for interpeting comics is that fleets are typically larger than they are shown, but I digress).

Considering that #47 only shows one ShaShore frigate at Dac, I have to assume that the majority of Stazi's support ships were off screen, either engaged in battle or directly involved in the rescue attempt.

--Adm. Nick

 

A Victory (and therefore by association, a Venator, based on ROTS:ICS) can "fight a Dreadnaught to a stand-still". This according to Kyle in Soldier for the Empire audio drama.

That would lead to the approximate:
1 Mandator-class Star Dreadnaught = ~56 Imperial-class Star Destroyer = ~167 Venator-class Star Destroyer = ~167 Victory-class Star Destroyer = ~167-223 Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser = 1000 Recusant-class light destroyer