Lit Fleet Junkie Flagship- The technical discussions of the GFFA (Capital Ships thread Mk. II)

I think it is time to move on from the Dreadnaught/WEG relevancy discussions. Both sides have made their points and it is obvious that everyone stands by their original opinions, so I think it is safe to say the matter has reached an end.

On to different topics!

Wes's great list of CEC warships is a great reminder that the Corellian Sector Fleet and presumably Bel Iblis's Rebel group had access to some really neat capital ships. Ships like the CC-9600, which are in Rebellion and never referenced again, are great candidates for Garm's Rebel contribution or the Rebel Sector Forces operating in the Corellian Sector. I do wish that the CC-series all shared some common design attributes with other mainstread CEC warships like the corvette or gunship. It makes me wonder if the CC-series was built by another Corellian starship builder?

--Adm. Nick

 

I see your comments, and raise you a random old thread...




Mac

 

That's actually a good point - we've never seen them explicitly said to be CEC, right? (Really, the entire sector needs an overhaul with a bunch of Corellian colonies populating it)

The earlier eras had a number of other Corellian starship manufacturers, especially Corellia StarDrive that eclipsed CEC during the KOTOR days.

And let's not forget that the Millenium Falcon guide out next year will feature the history of the Corellian Engineering Corporation...

 

http://drslice.com/games/rebellion/capital/23
Rebellion just says that that it is a newer version of the CC 7700 and (http://drslice.com/games/rebellion/capital/22) the CC 7700 is said to be an older sipling to the Corellian Gunship, which doess come from CEC. So it is likely to be a CEC line, just not explicitly said to be.

And now I am just getting nostalgic and want to play Rebellion.

Dident that get bought by CEC? Though there is CorelliSpace which tried to compete with CEC in the freighter market and there should be some Duros and Nubian designed ships flying about in the Corellian Sector.

 

Corellia Stardrive was related to CEC, as it was founded by a former CEC employee, and was one of the major shipyards during KotOR and that era, but the Board was later killed, its fortunes faltered, and it was bought and absorbed into CEC.

On CEC, there are a couple reasons to assume that they are responsible for the CC series. One, the CC-7700 is mentioned to be a sibling of the DP-20 Gunship, and the CC9600 is mentioned as related to the 7700. It also fits the common naming conventions of CEC. Double letters then a numeric code. They also tend to have a class name as well.
Lets try to pry apart the CEC designations.

Action Transports are medium armed freighters/bulk transports. May be A series
Action-Keynne are extremely well armed bulk transports, compared to capital ships. AK series?

BD are barge drivers/tow ships

CC are light to medium warships
CR are armed corvettes at the high end, and small armed troop shuttles at the low end
DP are gunships

G9 is a freighter
HWK are couriers
HT are light freighters developed after the YT1300, large cargo bays, lightly armed.

FA are light transports, less popular than YT
KR-TB are combat transports
KS are high performance light freighters
LAF are light attack fighters. Also HLAF for heavy versions

MT are combat dropships
PB are patrol boats
S are starfighters
SS are light transports, seemingly an older design

VCX are light transports with heavy weapon loads during the YV war
WUD are elder light transport design, seems to predate YT series

XS are KotOR era stock light transports
XX are experimental drone frigates

Y-8 is a mining vessel
YG are older designs of light transports
YL are light transports
YQ are droid patrol craft, built with Loronar
YT are stock light transports
YU are at the upper end of size for light transports
YV are small/medium freighters
YZ are heavily armed light freighters/transports. Perhaps the line spun off the arms only DP series?

ZD are luxury liners


Some correlations I see
Y - highly modifiable
C - heavily armed (both the refits we know, c20 and c70 add more combat capabilities to an existing design)
X - experimental
K - couriers/VIPs
T - light freight/ personnel transport
P - patrol
G - light freight

Speculation
M - military?
D - fast?
Z - passenger?
Q - droid/drone?

Guessing from this, I'd put the Consular class as maybe a CK-## or maybe CD-## design.

 

I think you're right... ah, well.

Checking notes about the Corellian gunship, the 2nd Ed of SOTG indicated that they were designed for usage by the Republic; while they say they were originally build for the "Republic Navy", it also says they showed up during the "last decades" of the Old Republic; it sounds like they made a slip-up and meant the Republic forces in general. Presumably the CC-7700 frigate was made for them as well? (Seems like they would be used to stop smugglers and other criminal ships in Judicial operations).

 

We know the CC-7700 was an older sibling to the DP-20 gunship. We also have the CC-2200 interdictor mentioned in Outbound Flight. Rather than making the 2200 even older, I can see the 2200 being a light ship used against smugglers and the like, and the 7700 as a larger version meant to cover major hyperlanes. They have also proven useful to manipulate things like asteroid/debris fields and even in some cases, planetary gravity.

 

What's the status on those "big, Corellian ships" from ANH? Anybody?

From what I can find, they were also mentioned in the Marvel adaptation of the film and called Corellian-class cruisers in Star Wars Official Poster Monthly 1. Then, nothing.

 

CC-2200 was in Outbound Flight? I thought it was just in Rise of Darth Vader...

 

It was afaik, though Outbound Flight mentions Vagaari "gravity traps" and this rather intresting quote

"It appears the Vagaari have learned how to create a pseudogravfield."
Car'das felt his jaw drop. "I didn't even know that was possible."
"The theory's been around for years," Maris said, her voice suddenly thoughtful. "We used to talk about it at school. But it's always required too much energy and too big a generator configuration to be practical.".

Which sort of dosent mesh well with the Interdictor that shows up in the Darth Maul short story. And I for one always wondered why Super Star Destroyer don't have Interdictor fields, until the Eclipse comes around.

@ Corellian cruisers

Take your pick, as the Leias "Rebel blockade runner" is already bigger then a "bulk cruiser" (like the Action VI).

 

Looking at that scene again, it kind of implies to me that the ISD were the "big Corellian" ships. I wonder how Corellia got associated with Han and ISDs became Kauti sips.



Take your pick, as the Leias "Rebel blockade runner" is already bigger then a "bulk cruiser" (like the Action VI).
I doubt the Falcon would need to run from an Action 4. And that is a bulk freighter anyway, these are bulk cruisers: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bulk_cruiser

 

And the Empire did actually use armed Action freighters as patrol ships (Starport Guide) whilst hauling along a pair of TIEs and many other worlds use armed freighters for patrols, inspired by the CSAs Etti lighter (Pirates and Privateers). The Dwarf Star bulk cruiser (from your link) is also just 150 meters long and served as a spy ship for Zsinj, also outfitted with TIE hangars. So local bulk cruiser leaves a lot open.

 

so anyway, I haven't got to see CEIII #1 yet, but I hear there is a Dauntless-class

So, now that we have more pics of Dauntless than the original one in Rebellion--in Chronology, RECG, and now this...have any of these pics given us a clue as to the SIZE of the ship?

Although "bulk cruiser" as used in ANH seems to indicate a military ship, as the Neutron Star and Battle Horn do seem to be [and I still don't understand the difference between those two], in other instances "bulk cruiser" seems to be synonymous with "bulk freighter" [ie, the Quasar Fire-class, which is a civilian freight cargo vessel in stock condition, even if its better known to us in its modified carrier state]

 

So, now that we have more pics of Dauntless than the original one in Rebellion--in Chronology, RECG, and now this...have any of these pics given us a clue as to the SIZE of the ship?

Not really, as there are just a few external shoots with nothing close to it (though there is a nice bridge pic.), plus Star Wars comic book scaling is a bit iffy at best anyway.

[and I still don't understand the difference between those two]

Propely just a naming thing, Neutron Star seems to be the common kind, Battle Horn apprently a slight variation model.

 

Han talks about outrunning something as if he's being chased. I doubt he's talking about freighters.

"I've outrun Imperial starships. Not the local bulk cruisers, mind you. I'm talking about the big Corellian ships, now."

This is almost as obscure as "Tank" used to be. Remember when that character was first explored in any detail? Yeah.

Though the Corellian Trilogy references Corellia building some kind of Star Destroyers.

 

FUCG had this to say: "Bulk cruisers were designed during the Clone Wars to serve as second-line warships. Produced with older technology and off-the-rack components, these starship designs are all slow, undergunned, crew-intensive, and prone to malfunctions. In fact, they are generally little more than upscaled space transports, with little of the armor plating, heavy shielding or massive weapons that make most capital ship designs effective. As their name suggests, they were simply large starships, depending on their bulk to overpower smaller vessels. In truth a bulk cruiser has approximately the same firepower as a smaller (and cheaper) frigate, though somewhat more ability to absorb damage. Where they can, the designs use their freely available space to good advantage, such as considerable carried craft and massive heavy quad lasers (which deal nearly as much damage as turbolasers, but are much larger and cheaper to construct).
Rendili's StarDrive's Neutral Star Bulk Cruiser is typical of these designs..." - p. 121

 

Most likely those were ISDs contracted out to CEC for construction - worthwhile way to keep all the shipyards running at capacity (and production distributed so an attack on Kuat doesn't snarl up the whole production schedule), without having a riot of different starship designs to keep supply stocks for. Also figure in that scene Han's dealing with what he perceives to be a crazy old man and a snot-nosed kid; there's probably a nice ration of bantha poodoo thrown into his side of the conversation. Either that or he figures the Imperial Navy's CR90s are about the biggest starship class they routinely use around Tatooine - later on he seems fairly surprised to see an ISD chasing the Falcon.

 

Agreed - we know that the Empire would have shipyards built their military ships regardless of what shipyard originated the design.

Han was probably showing a little cultural pride, too...

 

Yeah, I definitely think that the "big Corellian ships" are most likely CEC produced Star Destroyers under license from KDY. I like blackmyron's idea about Han's statement being a reflection of pride in Corellian shipbuilding.

Speaking of spacefaring races that we don't have designs for, do we know what Duros starships look like? Considering that they are practically the original sparfaring race and a possible inventor of the hyperdrive, you would think we would see more Duros designed starships.

As major species go, we never really hear about Duros naval forces either. Hell, if Balance Point is to be believed, the entire defense of Duro consisted of a MC40 light cruiser and several squadrons of Dagger-D's and E-wings. I still can't figure out why such a important NR system didn't rate more important defenses, unless the Corellian Sector was the hub for NRDF assets in that area and they were tied up "off screen" in another part of the Duro Sector.

--Adm. Nick

 

It gets even stranger that Duro is apparently a strategic target for invading the Core Worlds in almost every war; you'd think they figure it out by the NJO era... or that the Duros shipyards might actually produce capital ships to defend their world.

The Duro System Shipwrights' Guild first appears in CCW, but we don't learn much apart from they make mostly light freighters.

 

Speaking of Corellia, did they ever specify where the Corellian shipyards are? I haven't read the Corellian trilogy in years, and can't remember if LotF mentioned where the main shipyards were. The unnamed "egg-shaped" Corellian dreadnaughts were built at secret shipyards away from Corellia, and I think in the Millennium Falcon book it showed the Falcon was built on an assembly line somewhere. Just asking as with Kuat we know the shipyards are around the planet and system, same with Fondor and with Mon Calamari we saw the world is ringed by shipyards by the Legacy era. I know we've seen a TOR screenshot of a Thranta-class ship on the planet, and I think the KotOR Campaign Guide mentioned the Interdictor-class was launched from Corellian shipyards, and Wookieepedia mentions the Inexpugnable-class was as well.

I know CEC is known mostly for civilian or at least not huge iconic warships that are Corellian-designed (unlike Kuat with its Star Destroyers and Mon Calamri with their MC Star Cruisers), though they could probably repair and build Star Destroyers as well of course.

I remember in Destiny's Way, when the New Republic was at one of its lowest points in its unfortunately too short history (imagine if they could've kept designing new classes like the Nebula and Defender Star Destroyers), Ackbar named three worlds as absolutely vital to continuing the war effort, that if it came to it, the New Republic had to defend them like they defended Coruscant- Kuat, Mon Calamari and Corellia. Kuat and Mon Calamari are obvious choices (not just because its Ackbar's homeworld) but Corellia would seem more like a logical choice if they were pumping out Star Destroyers or Strident-class Star Defenders. Well, there's still Centerpoint, but that thing wasn't useful for most of the war, especially with Anakin Solo already dead by that point. Stridents are mentioned occasionally, but otherwise we know next to nothing about them (other than that they're not in the same weight/size class as a Galactic-class carrier, basically a renamed Star Destroyer design). Especially when there are other shipyards like Fondor or Talaan, but then guess Bel Iblis had set up shop there and was running his own somewhat independent war against the Vong from there (its not like the New Republic did a half-way competent job of waging the war, so might as well go off on his own again).

And yeah, losing Duros over and over again gets boring. Although... I think NJO did it first? I have a vague idea of how the Clone Wars goes (at least how they went before TCW started mixing things up left and right for the heck of it), but can't remember if Balance Point or the CIS taking Duros showed up in a story first. Although in the Clone Wars it was mentioned that Duros fell partially due to a Senator diverting important ships to their own homeplanet. And the loss of Duros during the Yuuzhan Vong War was just part of the general incompetence of most people during that era/series. Although by then it was clear the Vong weren't just a "random Outer Rim threat, just too bad instead of actually acknowledging and fighting the threat, the more common response was capitulation and "blame/kill the Jedi!".

At least TOR didn't have the Sith Empire turned back at Duros, I think it was more at... Bothawui? Or was that just their first major victory? I think the Lost Suns comic mentioned the Republic stopped the Sith advance at Rhen Var and Alderaan (probably referencing the second cinematic trailer).

Although by the time the TCW series is over, probably half a dozen other random planets will be "very important strategic targets despite being in the middle of nowhere!" Re-invading Geonosis was one thing, to keep the Geonosians from getting back into the war, but then you have stuff like Umbara where they just came up with an episode about invading that planet because it looks cool. They don't even bother to explain why (like maybe it suddenly ended up on the border between Republic and Separatist space when the Clone Wars suddenly started or something like that).

 

TOR era has shipyards right in Coronet City, at Blastfield Shipyards:

[image=http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/db/writing/20110617_db04_535x300.jpg]

Considering the conservatism of the galactic society, OT and after -eras having still shipyards on the surface of Corellia should not be an impossible possibility.

 

Legacy 0 mentioned Bantha working at the Selonian shipyards.

 

I wouldn't discount the importance of escorts like corvettes, gunships, and frigates. All of these types of warships are among the types of military craft CEC excelled at. Given that worlds like Dac and Kuat were busy cranking out Mon Cal cruisers, Star Defenders, battle cruisers, and various classes of Star Destroyers, Corellia's shipbuilding capability will probably focused on building escorts. Big warships are key, but without smaller escorts and support ships they are more vulnerable to attack.

I can totally see Corellia churning out Ranger-class gunships, new model CC-series frigates, and other escorts.

--Adm. Nick

 

Kind of reminds me of how in the Daala ?epic? Mon Cals defenses consist of a few B-Wings. Though granted right after Dark Empire there properly is not all that much of the ?Rebel? fleet left and occupied with mobbing up.

Well they do have planetary shields ( and city ship shields), plus a few weapons platforms as well. Didn?t Star by Star also mention that the New Republic was trading weapons platforms for warships to defend Coruscant? So Duros might have dispatched what home fleet it has to defend the capital.

Pretty much the same actually -> lets skirmish around the galaxy in small task forces and watch Palpatine and Dooku randomly declare one or another world important this week.