Forced into religion?

What i don't agree with is missionaries, going abroad and forcing their religious beleifs onto others they see as wrong.

Speaking as someone who served as a missionary for 2 years, I have to say that missionaries cannot force beliefs onto anyone. All they can really do is explain their own beliefs and invite others to accept them.

There were many times I would knock on someone's door and they would accuse me of trying to force them to abandon their beliefs. All I did was knock on their door and offer to share a message with them. I gave them a choice, nothing more. If they think that my offering to share a message was violating their rights, then they have a very abnormal definition of rights.

They have much as a right to beleive what they do as you, there is no right religion and there never will be.

And no one can deny them that right. Until we develop some sort of mind control device or ability, no one can force you to think or believe anything.

Kimball Kinnison

 

And no one can deny them that right. Until we develop some sort of mind control device or ability, no one can force you to think or believe anything.


That's technically not true. Cults, for example, have an amazing ability to get within their member's heads and pretty much twist their thoughts to their own. Charles Manson was great at doing this as well, as were the Koreans in the 50's. A little sleep depravation and dependence on another entity for your suvival will do this as well. Fred Phelps is also good at this, buy only within his own family. One doesn't need mind control to control someone's mind, all they need to do is find out what'll get you to accept what they believe and exploit it. Religion does this as well (to some people) and it can be a powerful force. Especially if you teach them that it's the truth from a young age.

 

look at Jonestown, you either killed yourself or you were shot. Too many bad things are done today in the name of faith.

Still, you could have walkked away and refused to beleive the BS. But if they played on your fears...

 

They have much as a right to beleive what they do as you, there is no right religion and there never will be.

And no one can deny them that right. Until we develop some sort of mind control device or ability, no one can force you to think or believe anything.

For shame, Kimball, bringing logic into a debate where clearly it has no place! Shame!

E_S

 

I am catholic and my husband is Lutheran, and we are teaching our son the both sides of religions.

Catholic parents raise their children Catholic, and so forth. I think when the children grow up, they make a decision whether to embrace the faith they were born into and learn more about it, or reject it and seek out new religious streams.

I agree with you. We are not trying to force our son to be Catholic or Lutheran still there are some times when our churches places too much pressure on us. Then we wish to be away from our religions groups.

 

While there really isn't anyone who cane make you beleive something you don't want to, they can make your life hell.

 

look at Jonestown, you either killed yourself or you were shot. Too many bad things are done today in the name of faith.

Yeah, so we should tar ALL members of a faith with the same brush.

You should be careful, they burn girls like you Katana.

E_S

 

I have a MAJOR problem with the exploitation of Religions by the Churches themselves.

I live in Florida and there are a lot of Ministries.
It astonishes me to see the members of these churches giving 10, 15 sometimes 20% of their hard earned salaries to the organization...only to see the Minister's wife drive up in a brand new Maserati.

No lie....I have seen this first hand.
Wake up People!

"The god I believe in isn't short of cash, mister!"
- Bono

 

yeah right they're gonna burn me, i'll just do a disappearing act

and we can't tar evrything with the same brush, that's just BS

 

btw Mortimer_Snerd, mosques hold their "services" on friday, usually afternoon time. most muslims have to use their lunch hr. or vacation time 4 it.

about the question...
like what was said before, no one can "force" anyone to do anything. people acquiesce to what others want because the alternatives are ... unpleasant. not to say that one can easily stop being pushed into something, especially as a child. religion should be left open to exploration, b/c when it really boils down to it, the Divine is the same, we just all see It in different faces.

 

just like the elephant

it's my beleif that truth is a multifaceted thing, it might all be the one truth but we can't see the whole picture at once without divine intervention.

EDIT: You may find this interesting

 

Until we develop some sort of mind control device or ability, no one can force you to think or believe anything.


I hope we can get the ball rolling on that device a little faster. I really really want one.

Thank you Bant428, I didn't know that.

 

Vezner: I notice that many people that have interacted with me on this forum have claimed, or led me to believe, that they think Christian values (or the values of any religion for that matter) are oftentimes foolish and are also forced upon children. This makes children, as a result of this, "ignorant of the facts" and thus "brainwashed".

I just want to know how you can believe this?

With extreme difficulty!

OK, I seem to remember there were one or two kids in primary school who appeared to believe in Santa Claus, but they were the exceptions. IRL, I've known people who weren't raised as believers but 'got religion' nonetheless, and others who were raised in one faith or another but were no more believing than I was.

There may be a few kids who are particularly easily persuaded but I'm inclined to think that most of them make up their own minds. Whether or not they choose to share their opinions with, for example, their parents is, of course, another matter entirely.

 

and we can't tar evrything with the same brush, that's just BS

Right, so I can say that all young female Australian witches are obtuse to the point of embarassment, because I know one who is?

Generalisations < intellectual honesty.

And since you like your generalisations...

E_S

 

Here, too. Find me someone, ANYONE that has the same interpretation of the bible as you or anyone else.

Everyone in my congregation does as does about 6 million people world wide!

 

Are you LDS? If so, it's more like 11+ million people world wide.

 

Not LDS!

 

Bummer. Want me to send the missionaries over?

*runs out of the thread*

 

Sure!



I'll set them staight!

 

What denomination are you, anyway?

The correct interpretation of the Bible is indeed hard to discern. We may never know what it was. It's quite possible that the Seven Ecumenical Councils edited the entire Bible so as to obtain power. It's also quite possible that they didn't. There's no way to know. The only way to know what the Bible is is to hear it straight from God, a feat that no one these days can accomplish. God isn't generally concerned with minute nuances of doctrine anyway -- he's concerned with the state of your heart, and whether you use said nuances to show love for him. The intent is generally what matters. Unless, of course, you're trying to burn incense to praise God and accidentally catch the temple on fire. Then God's not too happy at you having wrecked his real estate.

 

Someone is actually asserting that church is not a form of socialization on the highly impressionable minds of children...

No, taking your kids to church, will not take away their free will. But pull back and look at the issue. People born in islamic countries, they are much more likely to become followers of one islamic faith or another. When children are exposed to the doctrines of a christian, or any religion, then they are much more likely to follow those doctrines. thats how these religions propagate through time, through micro and macro methods of socialization. I base this on the undeniable fact that children learn from their parents, whether it is intended or not.

Taking kids to church won't force them to be followers of that faith, it just sets the default. If they want or feel the need to change that, then they still can later in life.

And anyone that uses the word "brainwash" and better be prepared to admit that the concept is a two-way street. When someone says some parents are "brainwashing their kids," what they really mean is that "those parents are teaching their kids something I wasn't brainwashed to agree with." Fixed.

 

JediTre11, I would tend to agree with that. Although in America (or Europe, for that matter) I think you have a lot more freedom to believe in whatever religion you prefer. Unlike the middle east, where Islam is about all you have to choose from in some countries, America lets you be whatever you want. If you want to hate religion, hate it. If you want to be a Christian, go right on ahead. If you want to worship Satan, have at it. But I just don't see anyone being "brainwashed" into religion now days (at least not in the west).

I think my original question was focused more on Western civilization than anything else.

 

Not ALL missionaries are forcing themselves on the population-most of them do a great deal of humanitarian work-the Franciscans and the Maryknolls, for example.

I was raised Catholic, and I think what really turned me off is that even when I was a teenager, my parents STILL made me go to church-even through my first few years of college. Eventually, I just put my foot down and refused-because it was starting to feel like I was merely going through the motions. I was in church and daydreaming and not paying attention, so what was the point.

My dad still hassles me about it.

I think there is NOTHING wrong with raising your children to be religious-however, if they start to question things, and disagree, then you should respect that.

 

I agree 100%

 

I wasn't so much 'forced' into religion, but mostly indoctrinated into religion. But that's common, and how else are they going to get followers?

It started pissing me off, though, when my mother actually did try to force me to go to mass. I never really believed, I think, but after a while I started noticing these contradictions from week to week ... one week, the priest would say we should be tolerant of others, the next he'd say that we must all be good Catholics. Come my senior year, I skipped as often as possible. Then my mother tried to quiz me on what the sermon was about or which readings were that day, so I'd go and check the missal, and then leave to sit at Barnes and Noble the rest of the hour. All it really did was stop me sleeping ...

So for a while, I was 'forced' into religion.