From my point of view the Jedi are Evil...

From my pound of view I think Anakin gained some.

 

Mace is the only one in the PT that is a close as Anakin to turning to the Dark Side. If he would have been strong enough, he would have killed Palps because he feared him to much to live by the Jedi code and keep him alive.

I can sympathize with Mace's motiviations but he does almost the exact opposite thing that Luke does in ROTJ, and shows why he is a weaker person because of it: Luke does not give in to his anger and has faith in the Force, as Palps fries him with Force lightning. Mace figures he should just cut off Palps head and then, while he is at it, he will head over to the Senate and declare martial law, led by the Jedi, because the Senate and the courts can't be trusted.

I sympathize, but Mace's lack of faith is disturbing and leads down the path to the dark side.

 

There was no fear in Mace Windu. He knew that Palpatine couldn't be jailed for his crimes, as Nute Gunray attested. Nor contained long enough to replace the Senate and Courts.

Mace has come to arrest him, but Palpatine continues to resist arrest. In real life, the police have no choice but to use harsh force, even if it's lethal. Mace was right, he just undersestimated Anakin.

No it doesn't. It's all true. Palpatine has gained control and realizes it will be impossible to get a fair trial.

 

Yeah, that's always lost in this so-called arguement. Mace tries to arrest Palpatine TWICE, and it's Palpatine who instigates that conflict TWICE. Just because the jedi are good guys doesn't mean they aren't supposed to use force when needed.

Whether you like Mace or not, he was definately within his rights. Putting down Palpatine was the right thing to do at that point. Anything else would have been both unrealistic and foolish.

 

Not to mention the small simple fact that if Mace was wrong, then Anakin was right - and there is no fall.

Lucas is clearly showing us how Anakin had the chance to do the right thing and blew it. Anakin backed down and would not come to Mace's aid. So Mace stepped up.

 

blew it? He did what the jedi order is supposed to do..He turned in Palpatine to the jedi, then he begins to doubt Mace arresting Palps and thinks perhaps maybe palpy is right. goes there and what does he find?Mace with lightsaber right to Palps throat, few sec later hes about to kill him.

Anakin tried to do the right thing, and MACE failed him. "Your faith in your friends is yours"

 

"Mace was going to do the right thing by arresting him, but after Palpatine does the lightning, he changes his mind."

--George Lucas, The Making Of ROTS; Page 204.

128 INT. CORUSCANT-CHANCELLOR?S OFFICE-EARLY EVENING

MACE arrives with THREE JEDI to arrest PALPATINE.

PALPATINE: "Master Windu. I take it General Grievous has been destroyed then. I must say, you're here sooner than expected."

MACE WINDU: "In the name of the Galactic Senate of the Republic, you are under arrest, Chancellor."

MACE WINDU and the other JEDI ignite their lightsabers.

PALPATINE: "Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?"

MACE: "The Senate will decide your fate."


Looks to me like Mace was doing the right thing. Arresting him.

PALPATINE: (burst of anger) "I am the Senate!"

MACE: "Not yet!"

PALPATINE stands, a laser sword appears out of his cloak sleeve, and he spins toward the JEDI.

PALPATINE: "It's treason, then."

Later.

MACE WINDU: "You are under arrest, My Lord."

Again, he's arresting him. Perfectly legal.

PALPATINE: "Anakin! I told you it would come to this. I was right. The Jedi are taking over."

MACE WlNDU: "The oppression of the Sith will never return. Your plot to regain control of the Republic is over . . . you have lost . . ."

PALPATINE: "No! No! You will die!"

PALPATINE raises his hands, and lightning bolts shoot out. They are blocked by MACE's lightsaber. PALPATINE is pushed back against the window sill.

MACE WlNDU: "I am going to end this once and for all."

ANAKIN: "You can't kill him, Master. He must stand trial."

MACE WlNDU: "He has too much control of the Senate and the Courts. He is too dangerous to be kept alive."

PALPATINE: "I'm too weak. Don't kill me. Please."

ANAKIN: "It is not the Jedi way . . ."

MACE raises his sword to kill the CHANCELLOR.

ANAKIN: (continuing) "He must live . . ."

PALPATINE: "Please don't, please don't . . ."

ANAKIN: "I need him . . ."

PALPATINE: "Please don't . . ."

ANAKIN: "NO!!!"

Just as MACE is about to slash PALPATINE, ANAKIN steps in and cuts off the Jedi's hand holding the lightsaber.

As MACE stares at ANAKIN in shock, PALPATINE springs to life.
The full force of Palpatine's powerful Bolts blasts MACE.

PALPATINE: "Power! Unlimited power!"

He attempts to deflect them with his one good hand, but the force is too great. As blue rays engulf his body, he is flung out the window and falls twenty stories to his death. No more screams. No more moans. PALPATINE lowers his arm.

The Jedi Master is winning when Anakin arrives, but Palpatine, as the scene has been rethought, now seizes the occasion to exaggerate his weakness.

--The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; Page 204

Remember, the Jedi Posse were going for an arrest. Not a death sentence. On his own, Mace was making the same judgement call, despite the deaths of three Jedi Masters and the attempt on his own life. The Lightning changes everything.

 

"blew it? He did what the jedi order is supposed to do..He turned in Palpatine to the jedi, then he begins to doubt Mace arresting Palps and thinks perhaps maybe palpy is right. goes there and what does he find?Mace with lightsaber right to Palps throat, few sec later hes about to kill him.

Anakin tried to do the right thing, and MACE failed him. "Your faith in your friends is yours"

ive always interpreted this scene, as mace knowing thats right, knowing that palpatine was somewhat faking "being beat" combine with this the fact that he will weasel his was out of punnishment, mace makes the right call.

and dont try to tell me anakin did the right thing. anakin was being a hypocrite. he killed innocent tuskans, and killed an unarmed dooku. if only he had told mace and the other jedi this, fessed up.

unliked anakin, mace wasnt killing out of deep seeded anger, or revenge, but killing out of necessity.

 

Where in the movies is he anywhere close to turning to the dark side? Which scenes show him even leaning towards the dark side?

 

You're point of view is all messed up.

SWA

 

read matt stover's "shatterpoint", mace's viewpoint - he's worried about it himself

 

This is mainly to the people who are arguing that Anakin turned because the Jedi were just big meanies to him.

We see nothing to suggest that Anakin is treated any different from any other Jedi. We gets repremanded when he messes up and congradulated when he does something correct. I find it amazing that some people here think that Anakin deserved some special treatment. That the Jedi should have just kissed his @$$ all day and constantly told him how great he is just because he MAY be the choosen one. That's the point Anakin thinks he does desrve this but he doesn't. This goes into Anakin's huge ego and sense of entitlment. Notice at Shmi's funeral. I forget if it was Cliegg or Owen but all he talked about was Shmi while all Anakin talked about was himself. The Jedi already disregarded one of their main rules in just allowing him to be trained. And Mace doesn't seem to be like the person that goes around complimenting people for no reason. You have to earn it like a drill sergeant. He doesn't care who you are he is going to treat you like everyone else. Face it, Anakin is selfish, immature, egotistical, and to blame for his fall.

 

PADMELUVA:
[/i]"and dont try to tell me anakin did the right thing. anakin was being a hypocrite. he killed innocent tuskans, and killed an unarmed dooku. if only he had told mace and the other jedi this, fessed up."[/i]


Yeah, he really has no place to say, "Its not the Jedi way." It doesnt really make sense

 

I agree about Mace, he's almost evil. He should have politely asked Sidious to stop trying to kill him with lightning and then arrested him. I'm sure Sidious would have agreed. The dark side was clouding Maces judgement.

 

"I'm sure Sidious would have agreed"

thats laughable!

1.palpatine reveals his secret to the chosen one...why?
2.kills 3 jedi unprovoked
3.continues to barrage mace with lightening even after losing the sabre battle
4. calls upon anakin for help...mace realizes without a doubt that he is trying to convert anakin
5. influences the senate and courts, a fair trial would be impossible


bottomline: mace made the right call in deciding to kill sidious, with all the knowledge he had, and everything he had witnessed. he knew one of them would not be walking away from the battle, cause sidious wouldnt have it that way.

 

That has to do with Vaapad, his fighting style which allows a Jedi to come close to surrendering to the Dark Side. However, by the end of "Shatterpoint", he has managed to conquer his fears. He had faith in Anakin at that point, but it is pretty much gone by the time we catch up to him in ROTS.

 

Padme I think that mustard was being sarcastic. At least I hope so.

 

ive come into contact with mr. mustardly before, and unfortunatly, he was being very serious.

 

It is not as clear in the movies. But a trace is still there. He is the strongest advocate of taking extreme measures to remove Palpatine. Yoda comments that this will lead to a dark place.

The tragedy of the Jedi Council is that the change they are facing is their destiny. The more they try to avoid it, the more they hasten it. Mace is willing to make any compromize by ROTS in order to forestall the fall of the Republic.

Like Anakin, by not recognizing inevitable change and adapting to it, he embraces means that are out of harmony with the Force to prevent the change from happening.

 

I posted earlier " Mace should have politely asked Sids to stop trying to kill him with lighting" etc.
Yes that was sarcasm. I thought it was obvious.
However Mace was half evil, after all his lightsaber was purple (not quite red or blue)which tells me he was confused about what side of the force he was on.

 

More people on this board need to hear that. The majority of the users here have thought ever since AOTC that Mace Windu, not Anakin or Palpatine or Dooku or Maul, is responsible for the fall of the Jedi Order. You'll notice in every prequel film, everyone finds something new to grill Mace Windu for. First, it was for killing Jango, even though Jango was singling him out and assualting him, which suddenly made half the AOTC forum think he was a sith. People seem mad at him for not breaking the rules enough to let Qui-gon train two pupils, even though he had already bended the rules just for Anakin's sake. Then in ROTS, he is said to be a brute for trying to arrest inarguably the evilest man the republic has ever known twice before deciding to maim or kill him; he even stayed cool while he killed three of his best friends and collegues on the Jedi Council. And people also have the nerve to say it's Anakin's fall is Mace's fault for not catering to the Chosen one and for not giving him special treatment.

But then again, he does have purple lightsaber, red+blue= purple, thus making him evil.

 

I posted earlier " Mace should have politely asked Sids to stop trying to kill him with lighting" etc.
Yes that was sarcasm. I thought it was obvious.
However Mace was half evil, after all his lightsaber was purple (not quite red or blue)which tells me he was confused about what side of the force he was on.

are you serious? honestly, are you serious? mace was half evil? really? SLJ asked for the saber, other than that it has no significance. that kind of logic is what makes these boards humorous, thank you!

 

Again sarcasm. How can you not notice sarcasm?

 

sarcasm does not translate well on message boards. based on padmeluva's post it seems, that not all of your sarcastic remarks are so easily recieved.

nice to know though.

 

When Mace had him beat the first time he said, AGAIN, "you are under arrest my lord, you lose". Then "NO, NO" from Sidious and the lightning show.

He told him he was under arrest twice. Once when they showed up and then again after he had him down. In the meantime 3 masters died and Sidious tried to get him with lightning.

What was Mace suppose to do? Keep just trying to arrest him? Sids made it very obvious that he was not going alive. The sith was the one that dealt in absolutes

The fact that Mace said they would need to move quickly to save the Jedi Order was in no way showing attachment to the order itself. The order stood for the greater good of mankind. Now if he had said "we need to move quickly or the council will be in trouble", then he would have been showing that he was attached to his position.

And BTW, do you think Yoda was facing Sidious with the idea of arresting him, or Obi-wan versus Vader, or Qui-gon versus Maul? No. Why is Mace demonized for it? Especially when he offered surrender twice.

As for Annikan's little "It's not the jedi way" statement, well, that's obviously a self serving one. I doubt he would have killed Dookoo had he thought he could have saved Padme. It's only when there's something in it for him that he wants to suddenly follow code. But again, the code is not absolute... only the sith deal in absolutes.


Wrong board sorry guys