From what we've seen in the prequels, the Jedi are really not THAT powerful!

I don't know if this has been discussed before; if so, I apologize.

Anyway, from what we've seen of Episode I and II, though the Jedi are portrayed as being very powerful in the force and having abilities beyond most humans, I don't see them as being EXTREMELY powerful - as Mace Windu said in EP II, "We're keepers of the peace. Not soldiers."

Examples of this include:

* In EP I, it took two Jedi to fight one Sith Lord, and even at that, the Sith Lord almost won - if he had remembered to kick Qui-gon's saber into the reactor pit, Obi-wan would've been toast.

* In EP II, the Jedi pretty much got soundly beaten/killed during the battle on Geonosis - granted, they were HUGELY outnumbered, but I thought that some of the got killed fairly easily, considering they are supposed to be very skilled warriors and very powerful in the force. You would've thought they could've used the force to disrupt the Battle Droids mechanisms and made them inert, or something along those lines, but we just saw them using conventional battle methods against the robots, and losing.

Again in EP II, it took two Jedi to go against one Sith Lord, and this time he kicked both of their @****. Granted, he was a former Jedi, so this is understandable.

And, the Yoda battle that everyone raves about left me dissapointed - Yoda didn't even WOUND Count Dooku, despite his being a supposedly better and more powerful Jedi? Strange....

I guess the prequels illustrate to me the limitations of the Jedi rather than their strengths, though we still have seen some amazing physical prowess by them (especially during the Jedi/Sith battle in EP I - the jump that Obi-wan performed when he was hanging on that catwalk comes to mind).....

Flame away....

 

Mace: We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers

 

There would be no point to the story if the Jedi could do anything. Without flaws, there would be no storyline. It would be boring to watch all the Jedi walk in and walk back out uninjured.

 

I think this is the part where all fans can go crazy.

Too many people figured the jedi were these invincible super warriors who could not be stopped. There was nothing in the OT to indicate that. Jedi are powerful, but they can be killed as easily as anyone else.

I wonder if any jedi has ever killed himself, perhaps by slicing off his own head with his lightsaber while fooling around? I'd pay to see that.

I'm very odd

 

I wonder if any jedi has ever killed himself, perhaps by slicing off his own head with his lightsaber while fooling around?

Are you sure thats not you in your icon

I bet a few younglins have lost a hand or 2 with those helmets on and little lightsabers though

 

You never know. I do resemble him slightly though. I friek many people out.

Also, I'm pretty sure those lightsabers the younglings have are low power ones that cannot cause any harm. Giving real lightsaber to four year olds is just crazy

 

"Yoda didn't even wound Dooku."

I see it as he's giving Dooku time to surrender. He really doesn't want to have to kill his old apprentice. "The end for you this is" line was taken out.

But Dooku uses Yoda's hesitation against him, endangering Anakin and Obi-Wan.

I'll stick to AOTC alone, but we've seen many instances of the Jedi being powerful.

Mace shot up in the air and landed perfectly in the Arena.

Obi-Wan managed to untie a knot in mid-air while falling and used it to make a rope in which he could swing back onto the Kamino platform.

Anakin jumped out of a speeder, through traffic lanes on Coruscant, and landed on another fast moving speeder.

I mean geez, all of these moves are powerful.

 

Finally. Someone who has the same thought about Jedi that I do. Many people think Jedi are gods. Those who say "Yeah Jango died the right way because the only people who can got toe to toe with Jedi are other Jedi or Sith." are deluding themselves.

We're gonna see just how weak and mortal the Jedi are in the next movie.

 

"No one can kill a Jedi"--Anakin

"Oh, I wish that were true."--Qui Gon

 

I like that the Jedi aren't uberpowerful. They are powerful, yes, but they are also just people. And I think that Lucas intended to show that they are not as powerful as we might have thought. That their greater flaws--arrogance and remoteness--leads eventually to their downfall.

 

It's funny because three years ago, people were complaining that The Phantom Menace depicted the Jedi as too powerful and that Lucas had written himself into a corner!

At any rate, I never saw the Jedi as all-powerful, just extremely resourceful.

 

I don't know. That whole thing with Anakin (a mere Padawan) in the curusant chase was way over the top! He isn't even a jedi, but that was too much. I never considered that Jedi were all powerful. I just expected that there were probably more of them. Heck, even insects in great enough numbers can wreck some almighty havoc.

 

Precisely my point!

 

I never pictured the Jedi as all powerful. I pictured them a step or two ahead of Luke in RotJ. Thanks to the PT, we see how close Luke is to the Jedi of a more civilized age. There shouldn't be that big of a gap since at the end Luke was a Jed yet he could stil be hurt by aliens and monsters while rescuing Han and StormTroopers in Speeders.

 

I agree with Blur and Devilanse to a certain extent.

I honestly expected to see more stuff a la JKII, Kyle Katarn kicking butt, pushing stormtroopers over, flinging that lightsaber around, chopping off heads, using the "speed burst" move from TPM in battle, flipping up 20 feet in the air.

Man...imagine Obi-Wan and Anakin fighting like you can as KK in JKII, with the flipping and the Jedi Speed.

I agree with the listed examples of Obi-Wan untying the knot, Anakin falling, and Mace taking off his cloak while deflecting lasers (not to mention his "behind the back" deflection in the Arena).

But I expected to see more. NOT that the Jedi should be invincible, but the fact that Luke really isn't that far off is pretty lame.

Hmm...then again, to contradict myself yet again, Lucas DOES do a great job in the first 15 minutes of TPM showing us how much the Jedi kick ass. "Have you ever encountered a Jedi Knight before, sir? We will not survive this."


-dust

 

That's why I think he has done a good job. What we get is in between the two extremes.

 

I don't think the PT is depicting the Jedi's "Golden Age." The PT trilogy takes place during the downfall of the Old Republic and everything is pretty well screwed up.

 

"Luke really isn't that far off "

I don't think Luke is even close to the level of a fully trained Jedi. Compare his battle in ROTJ to Qui or Obi's one on one with Maul in TPM. Luke just makes a lot of slow sideways and downward slashes. He isn't even close to the speed and agility of the Jedi in TPM. AOTC doesn't have a good example of Jedi's dueling because the Obi/Dooku fight was editted down to nothing, and Ani/Dooku was so dumbly lit. And Yoda is definitely far from the norm.

 

Of course they're not all powerful. After all they almost get completely wiped out.

 

I am curious as to how the jedi could be resurrected. Luke actually didn't really finish his training. He began training even later than his father. (And the jedi themselves said that he was too old, Of course that could have just been Yoda) Still for a master swordman in the real world to become proficient took years of constant training. Luke can't even know all of the apps of the power of the force. He certainly wasn't ready for the Sidious' lightning attack. An attack even Vader never used. So are we to presume Jedi will be even weaker?

Also, if the Jedi were "peacekeepers" of the Republic, the Republic appeared to be a pretty big place. One, or two jedi are not equal to the UN peacekeeping force. There should be more of them.

 

No kidding! sidious can cloud ALL the jedi vision. Plus the jedi make foolish arrogant mistakes. Its because of that Im not surprised that the jedi fall.

 

"Without flaws, there would be no storyline"


---
Weird. The prequels are very flawed *and* have no storyline!




hehehheh

 

Luke supposedly is much weaker than the Jedis in their prime. Yet let's look at it properly

He's able to defeat Darth Vader who in turn is stronger than Obi-Wan (in ANH). If the rumours are true then Darth Vader will also defeat Dooku which makes Vader stronger than Dooku, OB1 and even Yoda and the Emperor. So if Luke can beat him whith only 3 days of Jedi training that should amke Luke the strongest Jedi ever? What am I missing here?

btw, I don't buy all this "OB1 isn't as strong anymore in the OT because he's older." Rubbish. The ability to use the force has nothing to do with physical strength and should therefore not diminish with age

 

The simple point you are missing is that Vader could not kill his son--even Luke admitted that. If Luke were any other Jedi besides Vader's kid, well the outcome would have been quite different. This other Jedi would never have made it off Bespin. And Vader would surely have mopped the floor with this other Jedi on the DSII.

The Vader v. Obi-wan duel in ANH is pretty evenly matched IMHO. Vader didn't really have the upper hand until Obi-wan let himself be striked down. Even so I still think Obi-wan is more powerful than Vader, even though Old Ben actually "lost".

Luke would be one of the most powerful Jedi ever if he had been trained properly and had more experience than he did in ROTJ. But Luke's abilities in ROTJ are no greater than Coleman Trebor's in AOTC. If Coleman was the son of Skywalker I think he would have been able to "defeat" Vader also.

 

This is such a funny topic. The excuses for the Jedi's flaws are great.

I see it as he's giving Dooku time to surrender. He really doesn't want to have to kill his old apprentice. "The end for you this is" line was taken out.


Are you kidding me? Yoda comes with an all out "Sonice the Hedgehog on Acid" assault and Dooku effectively blocks everything. Yoda did not make one move within Dooku's defenses. This fight was not a-- whuppin' as people like to falsely remember. Yoda did nothing to Dooku. So given that, how do you give someone who you have done nothing to 'time to surrender'?? That's sounds like something out of a Naked Gun movie.

YODA, bent over and wheezing with fatigue before the count who has not broken a sweat: "Enough, had you yet, Count?"

The Jedi are not that powerful in the PT. They also appear to have lost and deductive reasoning skills since they cannot figure out the "mystery of the Sith" which is solvable in AOTC. For everyone who disses Luke on the basis that Vader was old, where is the evidence un the movies that Vader was weak?

IN the OT, we see Vader:

1. Kill Obi Wan
2. Use telekensis not only to disarm but to actually hurt his opponent.
3. Repeatedly employ the force chocke
4. Block blaster fire with his hands.
5. Defeat Luke.
6. Withstand a great deal of Sidious' lightning to kill him.

So I don't think Vader is all that shabby in the OT. And if Dooku can be so powerful in his old age, Anakin should be just as powerful given that he is much younger in ROTRJ than Dooku is in AOTC.

The Jedi of the PTR are really not all that special. With his strong connection to the Force, its true philosophy and actual effectiveness, Luke was probably the greatest of all jedi.