Fanclub Han and Leia appreciation fan club

Yeah that's not my experience at all LOL. Have you seen the Bloodline thread at the biggest Reylo forum on the web? It's full of Reylo fans demonizing Han and Leia for ridiculous reasons - like not mentioning Ben (WHO IS A 23 YEAR OLD ADULT) in a five minute conversation and not wanting to go live with Ben when Leia thinks about retiring and going to Han instead. http://reylo.skyforum.net/t167p725-discussion-bloodline-novel-by-claudia-gray

Also, there's a difference between
All A are B vs
All B are A

Are all Reylo shippers Han/Leia haters who blame them for Ben going Dark? No, you don't seem to be among those. But are almost all Han/Leia haters who blame Han and Leia for Ben going Dark Reylo shippers? Yes. Every time I read a Tumblr post or a post on the JC blaming Han and Leia for Ben going Dark with their bad parenting and check their profile....99% of the time it's a Reylo shipper. You can't deny there is a very large, very vocal part of the Reylo fandom that are Han/Leia villainizers.

 

As I said before, the post brought up on the previous page (where the OP said that they viewed Han and Leia as bad parents) is from a Kylux shipper, not a Reylo shipper. So I disagree that nearly all those who villainise Han and Leia are Reylo shippers. I think there's more of a case to be made for most of the people who paint Han and Leia in a bad light being people who ship Kylo in one way or another (generally with Hux or Rey), since they tend to have a vested interest in making Kylo more sympathetic.

And I can and will deny that there's a very large and vocal part of the Reylo fandom demonising Han and Leia as of right now. It's rare to see Ben's childhood even mentioned in the Tumblr fandom, which is the main base for shipping and the area I am most familiar with.

This may, however, be because we are operating according to different paradigms. If you take the view that Han and Leia were utterly perfect parents who had a completely happy and harmonious relationship, in no way contributing towards the circumstances that made Ben vulnerable to Snoke's temptation, then yes - they are often 'villainised'. But I would strongly disagree that veering from that position (where Han and Leia never put a foot wrong) amounts to demonisation.

Certain people take criticism of Han and Leia's actions too far (as in the examples you mention), but they are not representative of the majority - again, this observation is made from my experience of the fandom, which is rather extensive but obviously not definitive. It's almost impossible to say whose perception is more correct or accurate in this kind of discussion since we are both providing anecdotal evidence. Short of someone running extensive and fairly sampled surveys of all the different subgroups to gauge their views, we're probably going to remain at a stalemate.

 

Reylo fans never mention Ben's childhood? Then why is the entire Bloodline thread on the biggest Reylo forum on the Internet full of Reylo fans demonizing Han and Leia and saying what awful parents they were and what a horrible marriage they had? Why is there a thread called "Ben's childhood" on the same forum where every post calls Han and Leia awful parents who are to blame for Ben going Dark?'

Not a single Han/Leia fan thinks Han and Leia were perfect parents or had a perfect marriage, because either scenario is impossible. We think they had a happy, successful marriage where they were deeply in love with each other and supported each other emotionally and this is canonically supported by Bloodline. We don't agree with the common Reylo interpretation that they scarred Ben with their screaming fights which ended in Han storming out and leaving Leia and Ben behind every time.

We don't believe they abused Han, neglected Ben, were afraid of Ben because of his Force powers (at least until he started going Dark), or didn't love Ben, or didn't want Ben because he may have been unplanned. Most Reylo fans think one of the above - even if they don't believe they were abusive, they think they neglected him - and are therefore "to blame" for him going Dark - "if only they'd paid more attention to him, he wouldn't have turned to the Dark Side". That doesn't mean they were perfect parents because no such thing exists. It means they were loving and supportive parents.

 

"Villainisation" isn't what I had in mind. Anyway, your friend doesn't seems do know much about Han and Leia - or canon, for that matter.

Also, the ridicularization of people with a certain opinion about Rey's parentage is quite old as well, but it's not like you and your friends have stop it, right?

So, let's not pretend anyone here is a paragon of virtue. I doubt you want to look like a hypocrite.

 

unicorn as I said, I am talking mainly from my experience of the fandom on Tumblr. Looking at the childhood thread you mention in particular, I mainly see people blaming Snoke for manipulating Ben and nourishing his unhappiness and discontent. You appear to be picking up on certain posts that fit your narrative and ignoring the ones that are more balanced and consider all the factors.

I don't believe Ben was abused or neglected. I don't believe his parents were afraid of him (with the caveat that I do believe his parents feared what he had the potential to become - Life Debt indicates as much). I certainly don't believe they didn't love him. Instead, I believe he was a gifted child who didn't always have his parents around to support him - that sowed seeds of discontent and unhappiness, which were exploited by Snoke as he pushed the boy towards the dark side.

You are presenting generalisations (the majority of Reylos demonise Han and Leia!) based on generalisations (virtually all the posters in thread x said x!), which simply aren't supported by my own observations. I could make similarly sweeping observations about Han and Leia fans (e.g. most Han and Leia fans hate Kylo because they see him as the person who destroyed his parents' perfect lives). I just don't think it's especially helpful.

MattOrgana If you are referring to discussions of lineage, I like to think I try my best to avoid ridiculing Rey Solo fans - pointing out why I think it's illogical and contradicted by the film and external evidence (such as interviews) does not amount to ridiculing its supporters. If anyone has ever felt ridiculed by me, I'm sorry about that. I have often felt ridiculed and piled upon, so you're right - no one has a halo here.

 

Is this the Han and Leia appreciation thread? Let's appreciate Han's tight pants. I know I appreciate them, very, very much. There's an extensive discussion going on in the Lit thread about Han's wardrobe. Do you think Leia ever tired of Han's narrow sartorial range? Are Han's outfits are like the GFFA version of the Zuckerberg hoodie?

 

nonesuch, you had a thread called "Ben Solo's Childhood" http://boards.theforce.net/threads/ben-solos-childhood.50036879/ in which you blame Han and Leia for Ben going Dark by being poor parents and having a volatile relationship where they fought all the time and that deeply disturbed Ben, so I'm not sure why you're now acting like you're one of the Reylo fans that doesn't blame Han and Leia. We're not buying it.

And you appear to be disregarding and ignoring the many, many posts in that thread and the Bloodline thread that blame Han and Leia for Ben going Dark by being bad parents, because it doesn't fit your narrative that "only a few" Reylo fans blame Han and Leia. You know it's more than a few. Just look at those two threads I linked.

I also don't understand why you're so gung-ho on defending the Reylo fandom as if the entire Reylo fandom rests on your shoulders. I certainly do not expect you to patrol and monitor them, and you have no authority to stop Reylo fans from blaming Han and Leia for Ben going Dark than you do over the Reylo fans who constantly harass and spam Pablo with Reylo images. You know that there is a significant contingent of Reylo fans who blame Han and Leia for Ben going Dark and frequently write tumblr posts and posts on message boards about this subject, on the JC and that Reylo message board I linked earlier. There's ample evidence of it all over the Internet. What is the point of denying something that clearly exists?

Yes, EXACTLY. Thank you for articulating exactly what I wanted to say. Saying "I don't believe Han and Leia abused Ben, but they didn't give him the attention he needs so he sought out comfort in Snoke and turned to the Dark Side" IS blaming Han and Leia and villainizing them, full stop. It is saying "If only Leia quit her career and stayed home and baked cookies, Ben wouldn't have turned Dark." "If only Han had given up his career for one that made him travel less, Ben wouldn't have turned Dark." "If only Han and Leia had had some sort of magical perfect marriage that doesn't exist in real life where they never had an argument, Ben wouldn't have turned Dark." It is placing the blame of Ben going Dark on Han and Leia, not the person who made the decision to turn to the Dark Side and slaughter all of Luke's padawans.

 

unicorn bringing up the childhood thread I created is profoundly disingenuous - I created that thread in December last year, based purely on the film and comments made by the actors/crew. My comments in this thread alone should demonstrate that evidence to come out since (especially Bloodline) has caused me to re-evaluate my interpretation.

And this kind of witch-hunting/accusatory behaviour - where you insist that I'm somehow only feigning an understanding stance on Ben's childhood, while truly believing Han and Leia were monstrous abusers or something similarly ridiculous - is precisely why I feel compelled to counter the prevailing narrative that's brought up again and again, where anyone who likes Kylo and deems him sympathetic or human (and especially anyone who ships Reylo) is demonised as someone who hates Han and Leia.

Look, we are clearly never, ever going to agree or see eye to eye on this for the simple reason that you appear to be convinced that Ben turned evil completely spontaneously, and was in no way influenced or shaped by his childhood and his relationships with others. It has been made clear to me again and again that it's impossible to attempt to explain or understand Ben's actions and choices without being accused of excusing them, so I will bow at of this thread for now. It's meant to be a fanclub after all, and I don't want to keep on perpetuating negativity when there's no hope of achieving mutual ground or understanding.

 

Okay, can we all put this behind us and go back to talking about how hot Han Solo is, how much hot sex we know took place on the trip to Bespin, and how freaking cute Han and Leia look as a couple, with her petite size and his long lean frame? (Captain Tightpants! ... I can't remember who wrote that, but it's so perfect!)

Someone should post some hot young Harrison Ford photos and some classy and smart Carrie Fisher pics.

 

I'll take anything besides the bad parent/bad kylo scrabble we had earlier. Go for it!

Edited to add: But to be honest I really am in it for the tight pants. Hot pictures of Han are always appreciated by this fan.

 

"Princess Leia showing who’s the boss
Bonus:
Han Solo watching her in the background while pretending to work on the Falcon"

Look, I watched this film 39938293 times and I NEVER NOTICED IT

 

I saw that earlier on Twitter and was floored that I've never spotted Han in the background either. I've seen ESB millions of times (literally), how did I not see him?

Anyone else not noticed him?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

OMG, that is an awesome catch!

 

Quoting these because I can't like it enough.

nonesuch Not thinking Han/Leia/Luke contributed to Ben's downfall and are to blame for her decision to go dark does not equal we think he suddenly one day spontaneously decided to be evil. That story wouldn't make any sense. There are a thousand scenarios where Ben goes Dark without it being Han/Leia/Luke's "fault" with the idea "If only Leia had quit her career and been a stay at home mom/If only Han had a career where he travelled less/If only Han and Leia had some sort of perfect marriage where they never had a single argument".

For example, Ben is training with Luke. Ben believes as the Jedi Master's nephew with Skywalker blood running in his veins he is superior to the other padawans (this is supported by the Visual Dictionary). The other padawans don't go along with this, and his Uncle Luke treats him equal as he would the other students training under him. Ben is bitter and resentful because of this. Luke notices Ben has a great deal of talent and strength with the Force, but lacks discipline and patience (this is also supported by his temper tantrums in TFA). Because of this, he holds back on training Ben on certain areas of the Force where he fears his short temper may lead to temptation of the Dark Side. Luke starts training the students that do show the required patience and discipline in these areas those skills. He asks Luke if he could be a Jedi Master and start training the younger padawans, but Luke refuses, saying his training is not complete. Ben is even more angry and bitter as a result. When he is 23, Ben learns that his grandfather was Darth Vader. He's furious that his parents and Uncle hid this from him, and believes that the reason they did so is because they're afraid of the power he could yield, one even stronger than his Uncle the Jedi Master. Snoke (who has been watching from a distance and waiting for the right time to appear) makes contact and manipulates Ben that his parents and Uncle don't want him to be strong and powerful, and that he has the potential to be as powerful as Vader was. He plays to his ego by saying Luke is holding him back because he's jealous his Force abilities could eclipse him one day. He tells him the Dark Side is the quickest, easiest way to power and that he can train him under it - including skills Luke wouldn't train him in or skills Luke doesn't even know. Ben then decides to go over to the Dark Side.

There you have it - a scenario that doesn't say Han/Leia/Luke are to blame for Ben going Dark due to mistakes they made (except perhaps not telling him about Vader sooner). It's a scenario where Ben doesn't turn all of a sudden but slowly comes to that decision over several years, and it's a scenario where he's 100% responsible for his actions.

So yes, we are likely never going to agree because you prefer the narrative that Han/Leia/Luke somehow did something wrong which led to Ben going to the Dark Side and this scenario makes Ben more sympathetic because it puts the blame on Han/Leia/Luke instead of Ben. Han/Leia fans understandably prefer a narrative that makes Ben accountable for his actions and doesn't include "If only Leia had been a stay at home mom/If only Han had travelled less/If only Luke had been a better Jedi Master" then Ben wouldn't have turned to the Dark Side.

Jedi Jessy, holy cow! I've watched ESB a thousand times and never noticed that! Good catch! You just know Han was thinking "Man, Leia is so awesome. I am so in love with her - argghhhh!"

 

unicorn I refer you to this:

If you truly insist on continuing this discussion with me, please do so via PM. Instead of continuing a pointless and mutually aggravating argument, I'm going to adopt a Pablo technique and respond like this:

 

That actually is quite the adorable pic. The only time Leia is taller than Han!

Also love the behind the scenes of Han proposing to Leia.

 

I like that it almost looks like Han is serenading her, though Leia's distinctly unimpressed (not that Han would ever serenade anyone, but hopefully you see what I mean).

 

I wonder when Leia did start forming the Resistance, did she reach out to Han (and by extension Chewie) to join.

 

I'm sure she did to Han, since her and Han were still together when she formed the Resistance. Chewie she probably left alone since he was with his family. I wonder if we'll get a scenario where Han started smuggling for the Resistance to get them supplies covertly, and then once their marriage fell apart he just fell back into smuggling completely.

I am really curious about what happened with his racing career though and how he managed to blow through all the money he made to get to the point he was at in TFA of being deeply in debt.

 

How about some fun official artwork? Just for fun.

Queen of the Empire (official book cover, Legends) by Drew Struzan

Spoiler

A Valentine Story (official comic book art) by Paul Chadwick

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Family Dinner (Essential Reader's Companion, Legends, official art) - Han Solo, Leia, Luke, Mara Jade, Anakin Solo, Jacen Solo, Jaina Solo, C3PO, R2D2 by Chris Scalf

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Rebel Dream (official art book cover, Legends) by Dave Seeley

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Star Wars #1 (official art, cover variant) by Salvador Larroca

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RMQ-rebelbriefing (official art) by Ralph McQuarrie

Spoiler

 

Star Wars ‏@starwars 17 min
Who did Princess Leia call a "foulmouthed freen fleecer?" Find out in Comic Book Galaxy. http://strw.rs/2c3UZ74


"Word Balloon: All you need is love: Solo and Leia in Han Solo
One of the more charming elements of the Star Wars universe is the unconventional courtship between Han Solo and Princess Leia. We know the lines, we remember the beautiful moment on Cloud City before Han Solo becomes an ice cube, and we get emotional when they reunite on screen in The Force Awakens. We can’t seem to get enough of these two, who have the perfect blend of charm and stubbornness. It’s a love paradox with Shakespearian humor and drama, and it’s no wonder we want more.

This recipe is served to us as well in the pages of Han Solo through the talents of Marjorie Liu and Mark Brooks. They bring provide some brief, yet tantalizing moments between the princess and the scoundrel that deserve another look. We’re on the ground floor of their burgeoning relationship, and it’s really fun.

The first issue in the series provides another volatile moment between the smuggler and the princess that is genuine and original, and adds nuance to their relationship as we know it. In an improvisational move of her own, Leia punches Solo in the jaw (when he leans in to kiss her), in order to sell Solo’s departure from the Rebellion. Brooks captures the moment beautifully, as the panel immediately after the punch heard ‘round the Rebel Fleet reveals the turmoil both characters feel. The art, as well as the decision by Liu to have no dialogue in this panel emphasize that both have regrets. It’s a motif the two share throughout their known history, and helps to explain some of the tension they feel at the beginning of The Empire Strikes Back. Perhaps it’s no wonder he sounds so angry when he exclaims, “You could use a good kiss!” in the film.

Issue #3 provides another moment between the two, but neither of them are even aware of it. Leia is watching with baited breath as Han Solo and the other racers are arrested by Imperials. She then leans forward on the control panel as she stares at the monitor before she speaks. It’s not so much what she says, as how she says it that provides this brief hint of her affections. Admiral Airen speculates that Solo may have abandoned them, and she replies, “Don’t give up hope just yet. If there’s one thing I’m sure of… Han Solo is a survivor. And he’ll survive this.”

While she sounds calm, the look she gives (courtesy of Mark Brooks and Dexter Vines) speaks much more to her emotional state. She’s scared for him; much more than she lets on to the Admiral. Han provides a similar moment of brief emotional awareness when he says in a text box (only “heard” by the reader, of course), “For once, I’m worried about something besides myself.”

Knowing what’s eventually going to happen between Han and Leia makes this series all the more rich and interesting. It’s going to be something special to see what else occurs as they get closer to The Kiss aboard the Falcon, in the belly of a space slug. What’s more romantic than that in a galaxy far, far away?"