Harry Turtledove's Worldwar/colonization series

I am an avid reader of Harry Turtledoves alternative history novels and have several which consists of His Worldwar 4 book series in which an alien invasion takes place during WW2, and the colonization series set 20 years after in which the world has to rebuild and try to continue life as normally as possible since the war pretty much ends in a stalemate with the The aliens controlling parts of the world like China and Australia, also the aliens influence the culture and politics of the era in some ways, I am getting the final book in the series caleed Homeward Bound which I think is set 20 years after the events in colonization.

The series consists of 4 books for the Worldwar series and 3 books for the colonization series, with the last books in the series set to come out on Decmber 28th.

What I wanted to know is what do people think of this series and mister Turtledove's writing in perticular, and also for people who have the series; a question: What would you do if you discovered that it was the Americans not the Germans or Russkies who took out a part of the aliens colonization fleet. The fleet basically consists of tens or hundered of millions of beings in stasis and have not idea about the troubles Earth has been through, they are innocent, if you knew that it was the Americans who did this would you tell some one? In my case I may tell someone, but I sure as heck would not tell a fellow american or even a human, the aliens attack on Earth may have been wrong but an attack on a fleet of hundreds of ships with nuclear tipped missiles which ultimately kills millions of innocent beings is just as wrong.

I also have his book about if Nazi Germany won ww2 and it is set in the 21st century, I forget what it is called and I don't feel like going through my room for it.

 

These are the only Turtledove books I have read. I enjoyed them, however I get the impression that these are the least favorite of Turtledove's books among his fans.

I always suspected it was the Americans who launched the attack on the colonization ships. As far as "innocents", well that's a stretch. Remember, this race came to Earth fully prepared to face a planet of spear carrying neanderthalls on horseback with jets, tanks and nuclear weapons. They never thought the human race would advance to the stage it was during WW2 in the few hundred years it took thier probe to reach them & then reach Earth with invasion forces.

The only thing that stopped them from starting a complete nuclear holocaust was that they had no way of calling off the colonization fleet before they reached Earth & they couldn't completely destroy the whole planet.

 

The fleet basically consists of tens or hundered of millions of beings in stasis and have not idea about the troubles Earth has been through, they are innocent, if you knew that it was the Americans who did this would you tell some one? In my case I may tell someone, but I sure as heck would not tell a fellow american or even a human, the aliens attack on Earth may have been wrong but an attack on a fleet of hundreds of ships with nuclear tipped missiles which ultimately kills millions of innocent beings is just as wrong.

Aren't they coming to invade and colonize the planet? In that case, they are part of the military expedition and therefore they're not friendlies. ALso, isn't this a life or death situation? I mean, these aliens are wiping out resistance on Earth (I never got past BOok One), and even if they aren't enemy combatants, they're going to overrun you when they get there. The fact that they were in statis is actually better, beacuse they probably didn't feel a nythign when they perished.

 

I like his writings, but I don't like the way that he will just up and kill a character and then start up a new one in a similar circumstance.

 

I've read some of this guy's work. I think it was part of the Worldwar Series, I don't remember which one though. I didn't get very far since the book just started and I had no idea what was going on.It seemed good though.

BTW if you guys are into alt-history you might want to check out the Ring of Fire series. Its about a modern American town in 17th Germany. Lots of gory action, very well written and excellently researched.

 

I appreciate that he's willing to kill off characters actually.

Frankly though the last book that came out wasn't that good.


As for the moral Question on the attack on the colonists, at that time America and the Emprie were at peace. Regardless of who started the last war what the President basically did was to launch a surprise attack on a civilian population.

If you want a parallel imagine an Indian tribe in 1735 getting a peace treaty with the British government and then wiping out several small towns.

Regardless of who was there first is the fact when you're at peace it's generally frowned upon to attempt genocide. It's generally frowned on in most cases come to think of it.

 

I enjoyed the Worldwar books alot and I recently finished the Colonization books. I know what to expect from Turtledove at this point writing wise so nothing really surprised me but they were still fun books. Im currently about halfway through Homeward Bound right now. Surprisingly it is quite a different novel from the books in the previous two series, and unfortunately that isnt necassarily a good thing, IMO. Without giving anything away, Im finding Homeward Bound a bit slow in comparion to the Worldwar and Colonization books and Im somewhat dissapointed with it thus far, but Im hoping that thigs pick up slightly in the second half of the book.

 

from my POV there's really very little conflict in Homeward bound.

I mean there's absolutely no military conflict but there isn't even much emotional conflict. The story just sort of occurs in a sequential fashion

Very disappointing.

 

I agree. Big letdown for a series finale, IMO.

 

His "nazis won the war" book is called The Man in the High Castle, and it is set in the 1960s .

Peace,

V-03

 

I hadnt heard of that one, thanks. He also has another one like that called In The Presence of Mine Enemies. I havent read it yet but I have the book (although I did read the short story that it was based on from Departures).

 

Just wrapped up Homeward Bound yesterday. Extremely dissapointing, although the last 150 pages or so were pretty good. Overall, though, it was very boring and stayed in a predictable holding pattern for the majority of the book. The glaring lack of any kind of real action also made this book even more ponderous. This is definitely one to either borrow from the library or wait until the paperback.

 

In the end of the book "Homeward bound", the dude who told the lizards that the Americans were the ones who attacked the colonization fleet (forgot his name), gets a call from a lizard who says their race is dying off. What is that all about? Oh and I am right now reading Harry Turtledoves book "How Few Remain" and so far it is great.

 

His "nazis won the war" book is called The Man in the High Castle, and it is set in the 1960s

That's not a Turtledove book. "The Man in the High Castle" is by Philip K Dick.


I read the first 2 and 1/2 WorldWar books. Started off really really liking them, but the third book just gets toooooo bogged down with the Soap Opera aspects. I couldn't finish it.

Skorzeny was a damned cool character, though.

 

I still do not understand what that phone-call at the end of homeward bound was all about and that was not the only loose-end that had not been tied up, I want to know what will happen with those two lizards who were raised by the Americans, both of them were pretty screwed up in the head, one of them more-so with "sexual frustrations", that one seemed crazy enough to wnat to off himself.

 

Dont remember the specifics of the phone call since its been a while since I read it. As far as Mickey and Donald go, yes, I agree that they were interesting characters, much more interesting than Jonathan, Karen and the other humans in the book. Too bad Turtledove didnt spend more time focusing on them rather than the cookie-cutter humans that were the main characters throughout the book.

 

His inisistence in starting off each Worldwar book in the same way is what's averted me from them. That's plain idiocy . . . as is any defence that you're informing and reminding the reader what's going on.

They know what the setup is. After the first book, they know what's going. And Atvar rambling the same thoughts as last opening book is absurd.

If anyone knows an inkling about the publishing BBQ, it's that your first line and page must catch your attenton. That repetitive droll and conversational circle says nothign to his literay skills. If that's his respect to readers . . .?

Force Heretic: Remannt did that well, you have to admit. First sentence into the book, you saw Sebatyne was in trouble, and wanted to know what.

 

Yeah, I wish he had written more on Micky and Donald and their situation too. The book still has a few loose ends to tie up at the end and leaves room for a "final epilogue" even though "Homeward Bound" is supposed to be the last book in the series. Maybe another writer will continue the saga or maybe there will be a partnership between Turtledove and another author, I think he has done that for a couple of his books.

Heck, I can think of a few more stories in that universe I would like to see in writing such as:

First joint military operations combining (The Race) and (Humankind), there is probably more than enough wars out there to fight and you can't just waste perfectly good soldiers who might not have a civilian life left to go back to.

The life of Micky and Donald and what they have been doing for the past 70-80 years, or at least I think that is the timeframe; also why they did what they did.

Events on Earth during that timeframe.

I stil, do not understand how the lizards race is dying out, sure lizards have been marrying together for probably a good time now ever since the ginger craze hit and because of adoption of human ways; we have adopted some of their ways too. Maybe the ginger has caused some kind of hormonal change over time which has caused lizards to become sterile or be born sterile.

Any ideas?

 

I dont think that Turtledove implied that they were dying out. They were just being passed technologically by humanity. At least there were those among The Race who knew enough that they had to catch up or surely they'd be doomed.

 

You're probably right, since we are advancing past them considerably in the technological field. But here is the qoute from page 596 of Homeward bound:

"You are painfully plain" Tragedy trembled i Tsaisanx's voice. "What is also plain is that my civilization-indeed, my entire species-trembles on the brink of extinction.

You are probably right and the species is not going extinct, its just being used metaphorically to describe the technological progress of mankind over the Race; besides I don't think that humankind would stoop to xenocide/genocide, wait what am I saying, genocide has happened before and it will happen again, still I think more than enough people would object if humankind begins genocide on the race because I am sure there are probably a good many people who have friends who are lizards and would not like to see them shot/gassed/disintergrated, I sure as hell would not commit xenocide/genocide on a species just because of some past deeds their leaders have done.