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ST Holdo's Hyperspace Ram - is there an explanation yet for why it's not used more?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Ghost, Oct 21, 2023.

  1. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Holdo's Hyperspace Ram - is there an explanation yet for why it's not used more?

    Think of how easily factions could have just put truly-unthking droids to pilot hunks of metal (don't even necessarily need to take the time to craft a spaceship, just find a few iron-rich asteroids and attach a hyperdrive booster to them) to destroy fleets or planets.

    TROS mentions how it was a "one in a million" shot... why? How?
     
  2. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    You know we already have a huge thread about this, right?
     
  3. butlerd

    butlerd Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 31, 2008
    You mean, besides the fact that the Resistance only has a limited number of ships at their disposal, lost a bunch in TLJ and they’re simply not expendable? What Holdo did in TLJ was a literal one in a million last ditch resort to save the transports from the First Order.


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  4. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Sufficiently powerful deflector shields shields probably mitigate damage from light speed missiles. The Supremacy wasn’t prepared to block the attack because they thought the ship was fleeing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2023
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  5. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    Hux's reaction when he sees the ship about to come at them is to fire on the cruiser, not to turn on shields.
     
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  6. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Since the attack method is usually never employed, it stands to reason that it's extremely unreliable. You'd think the Empire, with their unlimited resources, would have lightspeed rammed their enemies left and right if they'd been able to control it.
     
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  7. Biel Ductavis

    Biel Ductavis Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 17, 2015
    My headcanon is that it is only possible, if a special kind of natural occuring hyperspace fluctuations occur.

    Something that can't really be calculated.

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    Last edited: Oct 22, 2023
  8. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    No?


    Even a small ship could do great damage. And I’m not talking just about the Resistance, but throughout all time periods.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2023
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  9. dagenspear

    dagenspear Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 9, 2015
    I don't think the movie knows that.
     
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  10. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
  11. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

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    Oct 4, 1998
  12. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2023
  13. Daxon101

    Daxon101 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2016
    You gotta imagine in Star Wars that Hyperspace jumping has destroyed so many ships. And im not just talking going into, i mean coming out of too. As shown in Rogue One.
     
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  14. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Oct 4, 1998
    A straight answer? Are you kidding? Or are you new to SW?
     
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  15. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    eh, sometimes :p
    We got definitive answers like how TROS Palpatine is a clone body, what went down with Sifo-Dyas, etc in other places eventually.
     
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  16. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    I think it might be wise for future writers to avoid giving this a straight answer until or unless they themselves specifically want to address it - anytime the lore-hounds try to construct pseduo-science-y gobbedly-gook explanation for Star Wars physics and fantasy, it usually ends up being contradicted at some stage by someone making a movie or TV show and just not being bothered by lore that didn't appear on screen.

    Hyperspace itself was for a time another dimension you jumped into and jumped out of, not just a lightspeed. The Holdo Maneuver instead relies on applying real world physics in a way that arguably breaks the reasoning for every other element of space warfare in the series, and even contradicts the highly simplistic and even parodic tactics of TLJ's story itself.

    TROS just saying "One in a million occurrence" and rushing away from an explanation why is probably the smartest move until someone else wants to take a crack at it and deal with the issues themselves - and that should really only happen in a movie, because any movie might contradict any explanation attempted in a "lesser" medium.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2023
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  17. Watcherwithin

    Watcherwithin Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 9, 2017
    Hyperspace in the movies was always described as just going really fast and we knew it cause massive collisions when a lightspeed object hit something. So how does it clash with the reasoning for everything else?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2023
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  18. godisawesome

    godisawesome Skywalker Saga Undersheriff star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 14, 2010
    In this case, strictly in the sense that it showcases the “Fridge Logic” problem that the old, ignored lore explanation was trying to avoid - that if you applied any real world science to a faster than light traversal method, you’ve also created a kinetic weapon that completely negates any reason for ALL other weapons and tactics of space battles.

    The old, always-ignored lore explanation of “cross-dimensional travel” was clearly done more by some mild science geek aware of that “problem,” and coming up with a reason for it to not “actually” be just speed, rather than doing the sensible thing that “sound in space” is treated with - just ignoring it and not making it an issue.

    You and I are going to disagree about whether a massively inconsistent usage of real world physics for visual spectacle contradicts the general consistency of visual spectacle completely ignoring real world physics (all the arguments about putting hyperspace engines on rocks to create cheap one-hit-kill weapons, for example)… but right now I’m mostly just pointing out that some dudes have wasted energy and print trying to apply explanations for Star Wars being fantasy military fiction based in hard science military fiction, which then gets ignored the second someone else wants to.

    If some future TV show guy wants to do the Holdo Maneuver, nothing some dude rights in an official guide is going to stop him from contradicting that explanation. By the same token, if some future movie guy wants to quietly criticize and then explain away the Holdo Maneuver the slaves, they also won’t give a damn what some dude rights in an official guide that might be contradicted by an a movie portrayal that reduces it down to “Only the Supremacy lacked particle shielding because it was too big to use a ship one and too small to carry a Death Star one.”

    In a way, the very fact that the Holdo maneuver has a “…Why don't they just always use hyperspace as a weapon?” inquiry is why it should remain a question unless someone wants to do it again or answer it on screen.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2023
  19. DarthHass

    DarthHass Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2004
    Why isn’t it used more? I’m going with the fact that no one would look as bad ass and fabulous as Holdo/Laura Dern doing it.
     
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  20. Glitterstimm

    Glitterstimm Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 30, 2017
    My head canon is that the “hyperspace tracker” on the Supremacy creates a kind of target Holdo could hit with a jump, without that “target” a hyperspace ramming isn’t possible.

    But the real reason it isn’t used more, is that they didn’t consider the massive canon implications it would have because they only thought of how cool it would look, so they forgot to make a canon explanation in the film, and they’re too worried about messing it up again so they haven’t come up with anything. [face_dunno]
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2023
  21. darth_of_denmark

    darth_of_denmark Jedi Grand Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Just going to leave this

     
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  22. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    I don't feel like this is a good argument. Trading a cheap freighter for a Star Destroyer is a VERY good trade. Just like how trading an anti-tank missile to kill a tank is a good trade, and trading a kamikaze pilot to kill an aircraft carrier is a good trade.
     
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  23. DARTH_BELO

    DARTH_BELO Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2003
    Honestly, the "one in a million" comment was IMO a way of explaining to fans why it hadn't been done already in the GFFA a bunch of times....

    BUT

    Then literally 2 hours later, seeing it done just over Endor in the victory montage COMPLETELY flushes any shreds of belief in that concept down the toilet! I was willing to accept it initially, just "okay I guess it's some kind of astrophysics thing, and achieving the right timing and positioning for a jump to achieve that much damage is indeed almost impossible to plan for." I could've lived with that JUST fine.

    Then we see it done AGAIN, like they're all "hey now we can just ram our ships in to Star Destroyers if we're desperate!" Including that at the end completely ruined that for me. If they can just do it again in the next episode, then indeed: WHY NOT during the Clone Wars or the war against the Empire!????

    SMH - as I have had to do for SO many moments in TROS.
     
  24. DarkGingerJedi

    DarkGingerJedi Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2012
    This is so defeatist I'm surprised it wasn't in the real movie.