How could a non force user, kill a Sith?

This question has been posthulated, and mostly answered, in the EU in recent years in regards to Jedi. But what about Sith? How would one go about killing one of them without the force? Jango Fett, Durge, Grievous, Atton Rand all represent different styles of dealing with Jedi, so lets look at that for a moment.

Jango Fett/Mandalorians: Outsmart your opponent, use the enviroment, and be a good enough shot to get by a saber gaurd, or just unload with massive firepower and cortosis weave blades.

Durge: Have a genetic advantage over the Jedi; be stronger, faster, talk more smack, and regenerate faster than them.

Grievous: Cyborgs have a number of advantages, faster thinking, speed, hidden weapons, and little fear of pain/death.

Atton Rand: Fight dirty, really dirty. Gas chambers, booby traps, posion, specific Jedi killing weapons and the ol' knife in the back.

Who then would be best suited as a non-force user to take on and kill a Sith? What would be the criteria nessiscary to do such a thing? To my knowledge, no non-force user has EVER killed a powerful darksider in a mano a mano match (Han shooting a cripple in the back and torping a Sith Witch doesn't really count). The Mandalorians did pretty well with the Exhile, killing quite a few Sith Assassins and warriors, but no real big names. Of course, it IS possible to have Canderous or another party member land a killing blow on Nihilus, but that's a gameplay mechanic element, and not really canon.

Even fights are good, but uneven fights can be even better if done properly. I'd love to see a highly trained soldier, merc, what have you, take on and defeat a named, and powerful Sith. Sith are generally shown to be nigh invulnerable to non force users, and I think that should change (Even if the odds of sucess are 1,000,000 to 1). It's not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog afterall.

 

The main reason Jedi get beat is

a) Holding back because they dont want to kill their opponet.

b) outnumbered by many

with a sith, they dont care about hurting bystanders or taking others alive. Its not that they are more powerful than Jedi, it's just their mindset.

 

The same way a non-Force user would kill a Jedi. Sith and Jedi have the same power, it's just that Sith are willing to do things that Jedi aren't, and thus have developed uses for their power than Jedi haven't.

People like Jando, Durge, and Grievous wouldn't be likely to win against Darth Sidious, that's true. But I can't see them winning against Yoda either.

 

They'd have to be really lucky.


In other words, only Han could.

 

Well, he killed Darth Sidious.

 

True, but wouldn't be interesting to see a non force user become MORE ruthless than a Sith to win? That'd be pretty interesting I think!

And that Han Solo example was already discredited.

"Sith and Jedi have the same power."

Haven't seen a Jedi eat any planets recently... not that they would, but we've seen nothing on that scale.

 

I am not sure about actual tactics needed, but Ysalamiri will have to be used to give the non-force user a chance.

 

True, but wouldn't be interesting to see a non force user become MORE ruthless than a Sith to win? That'd be pretty interesting I think!

Barring the destruction of the universe, "More ruthless" isn't exactly something you apply to the Sith.

 

The jedi simply dont develope the offensive skills that the Sith do. That would be the defining difference in combat. Anakin was the only Jedi I recall seeing using the force for any kind of offense move. When he assaulted Durge with the shrapnel in Obession. If there are other accounts, I don't know about them.

Take Shadows of the Empire for example, Vader was confronted by assassins in his private hallway, and killed them all with a thought. Its that kind of ruthlessness that a Sith brings to the fight with those that can't compete. A jedi won't try to over power an adversary, but instead just use the force to predict the immediate future, and to guide their lightsaber. And usually they aim to disarm an assailant. While Vader would simply rip them to shreds, and he didnt even have access to the use of lightening.

What keeps someone from going too far in a fight? Self control, something the Jedi tirelessly follow, but any Sith or even a darksider would simply let loose against someone. Something I would actually like to see more often. Gethzerion (sp?) and her Nightwitches gave another good example when Han tried to walk in and blow them all up. Injuring and assualting him with the force in cruel and painful ways that normal people wouldn't come up with.

Boba Fett has on two occassions that I can think of dealt with darksiders and come out alive. First was his encounter with Vader, a battle of wits and firepower. Fett was able to get away by using his head and breaking Vaders concentration. This lead to a respect on Vaders part of Fett.

His second instance was with the Dark Side Adepts on Nar Shaddaa. They were no where near Vaders skill, and used simple tricks to try and subdue Fett. But Fetts armour held enough suprises to deal with the Dark siders and their escorts. He escaped easily after they realized they had found what they wanted from him in the first place.

Fett would be the only non force user that comes to mind immediately whom I would give a chance against a Sith/Darksider. Though, I will admit its a very, very small chance especially depending on the opponent. Most others would simply be overwhelmed and incapacitated in what would likely be the most brutal method possible. Thats the power of the darkside, the ability to kill and destroy.

 

Thats what i was thinking it would be an advantage really because the force user depends so much on the force that without it he/she would feel uncoordinated.

 

There was that tales story (issues 21-24). Can't remember what it was called, or what the main character's name was, but he spends most of the story impersonating a Jedi while tracking down a Dark Jedi (Lycan) who'd murdered his son. He eventually catches up to him, and kills him. The guy was a former merc, and was well trained, but he didn't even attempt to take the Dark Jedi on in a straight fight. Instead, he lured Lycan into a cave and kept him distracted with talk long enough to spring an explosive trap on him, which killed the Dark Jedi pretty effectively. Lycan may not have been one of the galaxy's biggest names, nor was he a Sith, obviously - but he was a pretty nasty fellow, who had previously killed and entire cantia with just a thought. So it IS possible... though it's kind of a Batman vs Superman scenario... sure, in a straight punch up, Superman's going to win everytime. But Batman's never going to let it come to a straight punch up, is he?

 

Bombs, blasters, various poisons, assassins, traps, droids, there's pleny of ways. You could even always go for the old ysalamir trick.

 

I think thats the key. The non-force sensitive can win against the brute, "Destroy-the-universe" sith/dark jedi if you can outsmart him but once you go against the POst-DE-Palpatine/Bane schemer then all you got is luck. Good example is the Darth Maul Novel, Pavan outsmarts Maul several times, they only get him when Palpy steps in.

 

I don't know-- it seems the only thing the post-Bane sith had going for them was their secrecy. You can't kill (won't kill) what you don't know about. Once Palpatine came to power, his status as Galactic Emperor and all the security that surrounded it was main protection, more so than raw force power. A bomb's gonna blow him up regardless of how in-tune with the force he is-- it's just that getting the bomb into his vicinity is a problem.

 

The Sith themeselves have taught us the only way to defeat a sith. Backstab them. Either kill them in their sleep (if they sleep) or through them off a balcony.

Of course, Hand did shoot Palps, but it doesn't count, since Palps wanted to be shot.

I guess you just have to extremely distract them, or use a death star on them

 

There's dozens of ways. People are sheep with intelligence to match, but imagination isn't limited.

 

As 000 points out, Pavan came pretty close. He would've killed Maul, if he had only remembered to put a fresh power pack in his blaster.

 

Have a skilled team armed with autoloading combat shotguns, machine guns with a high cyclic rate, and some grenade launchers. Also obtain a predator self-destruct device if all else fails.

 

"Barring the destruction of the universe, "More ruthless" isn't exactly something you apply to the Sith."

I wasn't talking about Sith, I was refering to the non force user. Wouldn't be interesting if there was a line a Sith refused to cross for various Sithy reasons, that a non force user WOULD in order to defeat the said Sith.

"Ysalamiri" is a cop out in my opinion. A cheap way to nullify an uber threat, a deus ex machina. It's fine... once in a blue moon, but that's it. There SHOULD be a way for a 'normal' human, alien, etc to kill even a Sith like Nihilus if the opportunity presents itself.

Ah, now that you mentioned it, I remember. Yes Lycan was a great example of a dark Jedi sucumbing to a non force user.

 

I think we're forgetting the most effective method of non-Force-users defeating Force-users. Order 66. Sheer numbers. We all saw how Aayla and Ki Adi, just to name a few, fell to the hundreds of blasters being shot at them. Granted, a Sith would expect thhe backstab, but irregardless, no way could he block all those shots, perhaps fry all the enemies in the process, but he would certainly fall.

 

That comic was nothing.

 

I assume youre referring to pre Mustafar Vader.

Palpatine could of course easily survive an Order 66 attack. Vader could probably survive it but not easily. He's exceptional I admit but not good enough to deflect hundreds of volleys of deadly accurate shots by clone troopers.

On topic, I know HK-47 in KOTOR II talks about various ways to kill Force users if you gain enough influence with him; I havent unlocked these myself but I believe they are helpful.

 

Sith are quite mortal. Darth Vader himself was very nearly killed by Han and Chewie at the Battle of Yavin. He got extremely lucky, because if that laserfire had just gone a meter towards the middle, he would have been a blazing fireball on the Death Star's surface.