ST How did Kylo know that lightsaber was Anakin's?

You guys have to keep in mind films are not shot in order. For a long portion of production the Lightsaber was the maguffin that lead to Luke Skywalker, and at some unknown point it became the star map- something that's only shown in the open in two parts of the film. I imagine the fight was one of the first things that was shot (because of all the resources it takes to perfect those things, so at this point there would have been a strong plot thread relating to the lightsaber.

Even in the leaked set notes it says "Kylo realizes he doesn't need the ligthsaber to find Luke anymore". So it's uncertain when exactly this was changed. Most likely that explanation in the book is a retcon of sorts.

 

It's not really a horrible comparison - if Kylo is obsessed with his grandfather and has his helmet there's a really good chance he has read up on his lightsaber.

 

It's the perfect comparison! I thought I gave a simple enough answer. But first your 4 points:

#1 True, but it was always prominently displayed in Darth's holster. You would think in those numerous troop formation reviews quite a few stormtroopers took a peek down there (can't catch them looking behind those dark, tinted lenses).
#2 doesn't make any sense.
#3 True, but Luke Skywalker used it for a good three years before he lost it.
#4 If true, then we have no idea he also recognized the lightsaber.

Just go back and think about it yourself. How did he know that it was Vader's helmet which was in his possession? There are any number of ways but the most obvious ones are:

1. There are pictures (if there are video holograms, there must be pictures). There must also be pictures of Vader full-body with his prominently holstered lightsaber, or Anakin with Padme on summer holiday.
2. Experts on the subject/witnesses described it for him. It so happened his Uncle Luke is an expert witness on what that lightsaber looked like. Heck, even if Uncle Luke wasn't in a talking mood there was Daddy Han who had already sliced a Tauntaun open with it, and Mommy Leia who had seen it many times, Chewbacca, R2-D2, C-3PO... the whole cast of characters who'd seen it up close was his family and friends!

I can imagine a very young Kylo and R2-D2 talking:​

​

R2-D2: Did you know I helped save your Daddy from Jabba the Hut?
Kylo: Really, how?
R2-D2: I hid his lightsaber in my head and threw it to Master Luke when it was time to fight!
Kylo: Was that the blue saber or the green one?
R2-D2: The green one. He lost the blue one along with his right hand.
Kylo: Do you have pictures of the blue one?
R2-D2: Oh, sure! I downloaded it from the Imperial database from Death Star 1.0 (R2 then projects a hologram...)​

Kylo: Cool!​

R2-D2: Wanna see your mom in a skimpy slave outfit?​

Kylo: Eeeew...​

​

The question should probably be how wouldn't he know what it looked like?

Maybe there's a story behind how many change of hands that lighsaber has seen since it was lost, but Kylo knowing what it looks like isn't the sign.

 

Cause he's seen it before?

 

WRT #2 Kylo obviously knows what Vader's helmet looks like it because he owns it. Not sure what doesn't makes sense about that.

Again, I'm not trying to point out that this is a plot hole and that he shouldn't know what it looks like. What I'm saying is that his knowing what it looks like suggests that he could have had previous interactions with it, which would make for good tangential stories.

 

probably seen it before at the academy, or the force signature of it.

 

#2 doesn't make any sense. There was a time that he didn't own the helmet, right? So did he know what Vader's helmet looked like then? Of course he did, or he wouldn't be able to look for it. Same with the saber.

I wasn't thinking that you were looking for a plot hole. I'm just saying his knowledge of how it looks is not a good basis to determine if he's had it in his hands before, because there are any number of other ways he would know what it looks like. Now if he had said "That saber is mine! Give it back!", then you would have an interesting lightsaber story.

 

What makes you think Kylo looked for the helmet?

 

I've been pondering this question for some time as well. When Finn pulls out the lightsaber, there have been no discussions between the characters or anything else that would have tipped Ben off as to who the lightsaber had belonged to, yet he immediately shouts that it belongs to him (he feels it's his birthright, etc.). There are two things that I thought of:
1st) Ben knows it was Anakin's from his searching of Rey's mind earlier. However, one would think that he would have wanted it immediately upon finding that out. Perhaps after searching Rey's mind, he realized it was not in her possession at that point and he intended to hunt down Finn or whoever he suspected had it. He gives no indication he knows about the saber though until he actually sees it.
2nd) He could sense it was Anakin's through the force. What I am wondering here is if, in this new trilogy, they intend to expand the relationship of the force user/lightsaber. The lightsaber ''calls'' to Rey earlier in the film, so does it also ''call'' to Ben? This reminded me of how wands work in Harry Potter, in that the wand chooses the owner. It's a relationship in a sense, and it will even resist an owner if it doesn't agree to the pairing. Could something like this be the reason that Ben can't force call it into his hand, but Rey can? It may be me just over thinking this, however I think it would be quite interesting if they introduced something like this into this trilogy.

 

Just a guess -- the way he told Finn the lightsaber was his made me think he was out collecting Grandpa's relics. The way he prayed to the helmet and put it in a special "altar" made me think he valued it highly. The way his own helmet looks like welded pieces from Darth Vader's armor makes me think he's an obsessive Vader collector. And what do obsessive collectors do with items they don't yet possess? They worship pictures of it.

Even if he never looked for it and it just suddenly dropped on his lap, how would've he known what it was?

 

Presumably whoever dropped it on his lap told him what it was.

Vader's helmet wasn't exactly a hard to identify artifact.

The lightsaber on the other hand, was not only missing for 30 years, but is also just 1 of thousands of lightsabers.

 

And stupid Kylo just believed him and paid him the 1,000,000 credits he asked for it.

Explain why. How would've Kylo known that the guy gave him Vader's helmet when it disappeared before he was born? You said because it was a widely known artifact, right? Widely known by whom? Not by Kylo because he was still unborn. So how would he have known what it looked like?

1 of a thousand sabers that thousands of stormtroopers have seen. 1 of a thousand sabers that his own Dad and uncle have held in their own hands! 1 of a thousand sabers that his own grandfather made! Of the trillions of people in the galaxy who have never seen it themselves, he had the best chance to find out what it looked like. You don't think the Skywalker family had family albums showing Uncle Luke with the saber holstered in his belt? And even if Uncle Luke were camera shy, you don't think Kylo cared to ask to see pictures of his idol grandpa when he was still a Jedi?

I've said what I said and it's the simplest and most obvious answer. Why ask a question when you already know the answer you want?

 

I have no idea what you're even talking about at this point...

1,000,000 credits? Widely known by whom?

You're losing it, man.

 

Oh he totally does that's right. That's where he saw it for sure.

No, you're just having trouble following the logic.

 

The logic of the strawman?

The logic that Vader wasn't a well know figure?

All I'm saying is that there are a lot of reasonable, simple answers...He saw it in a hologram, there were images of it in some record, it was described to him, he felt it, etc. Saying "he knew what it looked like because he knew what Vader's helmet looked like" is not a good answer.

 

I didn't say that, you're making things up (strawman...). I never said he wasn't well-known. I said it was Vader's helmet, just like the blue saber, that was not well-known to Kylo due to the fact that he wasn't born yet when it was lost. I asked you how he would've known what the helmet looked like but you didn't answer. "Widely known by whom?" was not a rhetorical question. I wanted you to answer those questions so that you would arrive at the answer yourself, because the reasons are the same for the helmet and the saber: PICTURES

There! You already said it. The list of things you said -- hologram, records, descriptions -- those were the answers I was waiting for from you when I asked how you think Kylo knew what Vader's helmet looked like. But with the amount of explanation I've had to add to my initial answer, I am now getting the impression you think Kylo just knows the helmet from birth.

My original answer was a way of saying that if Kylo knowing what Vader's helmet looked like is not a mystery, then him knowing what the saber looked like is also not a mystery.

I did not say "he knew what it looked like because he knew what Vader's helmet looked like" -- you made that up again (strawman...). I said he knew what the saber looked like the same way he knew what Vader's helmet looked like. You should read the posts more carefully. (http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...ber-was-anakins.50037851/page-2#post-53141692)

And then you argued that the saber was less visible in general than Vader's helmet which I agree was true. But then again Kylo was very well-connected. He just had to look through the family photo albums, or talk to Papa Han, Mama Leia, or Uncle Luke, or R2-D2 to find out. It's not a mystery.

 

I'm questioning the inclusion of that line in the film from a writer's standpoint, not from the standpoint of what we see in the finished film and not from being disappointed that a thorough explanation of Kylo's recognition of the saber be given in the film, much less in that very moment, which would not have had to be the case if an explanation were to be given or at least hinted at.

I thought that was clear. I guess it wasn't.

 

I find "The Force" to be plausible enough.

If that object can have such an imprint from its former users that it gives Rey visions then it should also be possible for it to give Kylo Ren an idea of who it was used by.

 

Well we saw Kylo Ren read Reys mind, plus he's clearly a strong force user, he probably just knew that it was Vaders by sensory stuff but who knows

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This is a universe in which the Grand Inquisitor knows that Kanan was Depa Billaba's apprentice merely by the way he fought, from studying the Temple archives.

Kylo Ren does mention in TFA that the First Order has access to the Imperial archives, and that's how they have the rest of the map.

I'm sure there is information in there about Anakin/Vader, and I'm sure he studied it meticulously. In TCW, Plo Koon and Yoda instantly recognize Sifo-Dyas' saber, after salvaging it over 10 years after his death. And I'm pretty sure it even makes an appearance in his temple file. Lightsaber are treated as though they are fairly distinct. I'm sure Kylo knew what Anakin's saber looked like.

 

Everything MUST BE EXPLAINED!

 

I haven't seen all of TCW or any of Rebels...Thanks for posting.

 

I'm loving Solosaber 's ID and avatar in this thread...

Clearly Kylo sensed that his father (Han) had used this lightsaber in the past (on Hoth), which is the true reason he feels the lightsaber is his!

 

Either Ren feels that any Jedi relic belongs to him, as he sees himself as their destroyer and rightful possessor of what was theirs ... or he has seen the saber before via holos ... or he senses its mojo through The Force.

All three explanations make sense, in-universe. In reality, the line probably was left over from the story about Maz stealing it from him (which was bad dumb, IMO, and I am glad it was cut).

Any Force user -- especially one carries around a homemade lightsaber -- is going to get excited when they see an honest-to-goodness REAL saber.

I think we need to prepare ourselves to never know how that saber got from Bespin to Maz, and I think it is better that way.