PT How Did Sidious Know Padme Was Dead?

In Ep.3 (when Anakin comes to after the bio-mechanics have been grafted and he's in the life-support suit), Sidious tells him (the most devious thing he could have told him, that evil, facist bastard) that he killed Padme. How did he know? Word would not have travelled to him unless through a spy on the moon base that Padme was being treated in. Could Sidious somehow sense that Padme was dead? Maybe he sensed it through Anakin?

What do you guys think of this?

Frank

 

By the time Palpatine lands on Mustafar, Obi-Wan has left with Padme. He should know from the clone troopers at the Jedi Temple that Obi-Wan and Yoda survived Order 66 and could deduce that if Yoda has come to kill him, Obi-Wan has gone to kill Vader. He should be capable of deducing that Obi-Wan was the one who left Vader for dead by the lava lake.

How Palpatine would know about Padme's role in the Obi-Wan vs. Vader duel (and how Vader could have plausibly killed her) is dubious. He has some time from leaving Mustafar to the completion of Vader's transformation to piece together the evidence: Padme leaves Coruscant shortly after the Empire is declared and does not return; the Separatist base on Mustafar is shown to track Padme's ship as it lands; the ship, Padme and Obi-Wan are nowhere to be found when Palpatine arrives on Mustafar.

Perhaps in addition to this, Palpatine can sense Vader's regret and concern about Padme as he takes him back to Coruscant. Padme is clearly at the top of Vader's mind. Vader immediately and worriedly asking about Padme's safety would provide confirmation for all this evidence, pointing to the notion that Vader used physical violence against Padme. It's possible that Vader is bound to Padme with the Force (implied in the "Ruminations" scene) and feels her death, and Sidious might be aware of this bond and the significance of Vader suddenly asking about what happened to her.

Palpatine wouldn't have a spy on Polis Massa to tell him that Padme died, because if he did, he would simply send all the Empire's clone commandos and elite troopers there to deal with Yoda, Obi-Wan and Bail Organa. If he doesn't do this for an unknown reason, he would have Bail Organa executed for treason as soon as he returns to Imperial space, simply due to the testimony of his spy on Polis Massa that he is in league with Jedi.

Palpatine simply lies about something he doesn't have concrete evidence for. However, he presumably makes an educated guess based on all the evidence at his disposal. As a result, his lie is incredibly effective.

 

I checked with the novel but couldn't find any specific information about it, beyond what's in the movies. Though I largely agree with Quango on this.

Palpatine already knew even before Padmé's death how strongly Anakin felt for her. I think it probably wouldn't have been hard for Palpatine to sense what Vader was feeling, even as he was being "reconstructed". Palpatine would have likely have already received an official notification of Padme's death through the normal diplomatic channels, wouldn't he?

 

Sidious knew because the information was already released to the public by Bail and the Jedi. The kids were already born and they were well under way by then.

 

Yes, the information of her death would have been made public, obviously. But I don't think they'd have told the public that Darth Vader had had something to do with her death. Or would they have?

 

Sidious may have read Anakin's thoughts and saw that he had choked Padme. He then exaggerated about her condition just to make Anakin suffer the kind of pain that is worse than death.

 

Mostly likely that Palpatine did sense Anakin's thoughts or that the autopsy records, which would've been doctored, stated that there was damage to her throat. This would've been enough for Palpatine to put two and two together and use it.

 

Sidious would probably use the autopsies released by Organa to taunt Vader later on. However, Padme is supposed to die only as Vader gets his cybernetics installed so Sidious would have no way of knowing for sure that Padme dies until much later.

I'll go with the theory that Sidious senses what is on Vader's mind.

 

Lucas deliberately structured Vader's reconstruction and Padme's labor and death so that they are chronologically simultaneous, so the only way for Palpatine's words to Anakin/Vader upon his 'rebirth' to be the literal truth would be if Palpatine felt Padme's death (which is plausible and possible given that he is a Force-user) and scanned Vader's mind for details about the confrontation on Mustafar and saw him choke Padme.

Having said that, though, I've never taken Palpatine's words as the literal truth, nor do I believe that Lucas intended us to.

 

The apparent simultaneity seems to be contradicted by the ROTS novel; however, I'm not sure the novel matches Lucas' intent on this point.

 

At that stage, Palps would have known of Padme's death through normal channels - as for knowing Anakin's involvement, I suspect that given the state he was in, Anakin's mind was an open book.

At the very least, Palpatine would have been able to sense strong feelings of guilt regarding Padme from him, then put two & two together. I'm not sure to what extent Force users are meant to be able to read minds.

 

I would not have been surprised if Palpatine could have felt it even as it was happening... it was bound to create a strong disturbance in the Force.

 

Twitter.

 

I'm personally inclined to take what Lucas has himself said on the subject over whatever was done in the novelization. On the RotS commentary, Lucas specifically states that he structured Padme giving birth and dying and Anakin/Vader being reconstructed so that they were, as I noted, occurring chronologically simultaneous with one another, so that, as Padme takes her 'last breath', Anakin takes his symbolic 'first breath' as Vader.

As I just barely pointed out, Lucas' original intent in structuring the sequences where Padme dies and Vader is reconstructed was to have Padme take her 'last breath' at the very moment that Anakin/Vader takes his 'first breath' (in the suit). If you accept Lucas' word over what is done in the novelization, Padme dies just seconds before Anakin/Vader 'wakes up' and asks about her, leading to Palpatine telling him (Anakin/Vader) that he killed her in his outrage and anger on Mustafar, so what you're saying happened is completely wrong. The only way for Palpatine's statement to be literally true would be for him to have felt/read Anakin/Vader's memories of the confrontation between himself and Padme, felt Padme's death, and made an assumption that her death was the result of Anakin/Vader having choked her.

This is a very logical assumption to make, although it is one that I don't personally believe Lucas intended us to make because, as I noted, I do not believe, based on his statements concerning the way he structured the sequences of Padme going into labor and Anakin/Vader being reconstructed, that Palpatine's line was intended to be taken as literal truth.

 

Fine. The Force did it.

 

I've written this before:

In the comic book adaptation on ROTS, right after Vader releases the force choke, he force hurls Padme into a wall.

IMHO, removing that detail was a poor choice. It really plays up the classical Greek tragic hero aspect of Anakin/Vader and the "in attempting to avoid an outcome, one becomes the instrument by which the events come to pass" aspect of Vader's fall.

That doesn't really answer the "did Padme die seconds before Vader is put in his iron lung" nature of this thread.

I know that Palps does not allow Vader any anesthetic during the procedure. Perhaps in his attempt to cause Vader as much pain (physical and psychological) as possible and in a sense hobble his potentially more powerful apprentice, he would have told Vader Padme was dead regardless of the truth.

 

Palpatine: "Lord Vader... Padme is dead."
Vader: "So five seconds ago."

 

Telepathy.