ST How did Snoke seduce Ben Solo?

From behind?

 

I definitely could see Snoke as a Yoda opposite.

 

IMO: The key is how Ben learned of his heritage. If he always felt the pull to the Dark Side, I see two different possibilities:

1. Luke/Leia attempted to head that off by telling Ben what happened to Anakin as a cautionary tale -- an attempt to show him the danger of the Dark Side. Instead, it made it more appealing to him, and he sought to learn more about Darth Vader and the Empire and the Dark Side on his own, and somehow Snoke tapped into this obsession and fed him half-truths that painted Vader in a heroic light.

2. Luke/Leia chose to take the Obi-Wan approach and not tell Ben the whole story about Anakin's fall. Snoke somehow gets in Ben's ear and tell him the whole story of what happened to Anakin/Vader -- again with Vader as the hero -- and instead of being repulsed as Luke was when he learned the truth from Vader, Anakin is intrigued, and subsequently trusts Snoke for telling him the whole truth than his family, who didn't.

It works either way, but I think this plot point is going to be critical to how Ben fell to the Dark Side.

 

My idea goes like this. Ben wanted power and glory from a young age, only really interested in becoming a famous legend like his uncle .It was this selfishness that hampered him from becoming a Jedi.Luke suggested he travel the galaxy and learn about the everyday struggle of the people in the galaxy. So he took off on his own around the galaxy a bit like Che Guereva. He say the poverty and suffering of people on the worlds he travelled. The futher he went in the galaxy the more he hears about a mysterious phrophet called Snoke. Staying hidden and using transmissions, Snoke tells the people that the rebellion led by Luke and Leia was responsible for all the problems of the galaxy. . That the empire would have kept the gallaxy prosperous. Ben returns home angry and confused. He questions the usefulness of the jedi and republic and wonders why they take no action to help people. Leia feels that he needs to undergoe the jedi training for himself, to see that it takes time to shape a great jedi. He begins training and grows powerful but becomes increasingly fustrated that Luke wants him to stay and keep training. Eventually he leaves on his own accord to find snoke. Snoke tells him about Darth Vader and his reason for being. To keep the balance of the Force. He tells him that it is the skywalkers duty to do this and that Luke failed. Only he can save the galaxy but first he must eliminate the jedi. So he finds 6 bad ass warriors and trains them in all the jedi fighting styles. Tells them their strengths and weaknesses. He returns and attacks the temple. Luke refusing to fight his nephew grabs as many students as he can [Lets say between 5 and 10] and flee's. He drops the students off on random planets,wipes the students memeroies and plants a thought in their head. That they must stay in the same place and wait for their families to return. He then went on a revenge mission after snoke. He tracked him down and almost kills him, heavily scarring him in the process. He promises to train a new generation of jedi and leaves. But sickened with himself, his failure to protect his students who died, his abandonment of the students who lived he decides that he still needs to undergoe more training himself. thus he returns to the first jedi temple and erases it from the map.

 

Turkish Delight.

 

I like this one

 

Another theory I have is that Snoke simply perpetuated the lie that Emperor Palpatine did during the Clone Wars tried to assassinate him, overthrow the Senate, and that they were also secretly behind the Clone Wars which tore the galaxy apart. The idea of the Jedi trying to take over the government never has shaken much of the galaxy and is why they don't trust the new order. Snoke convinces Ben that the Jedi were destroyed for a reason and only instill chaos. He claims all the chaos in the galaxy is caused by this order.

 

I'm thinking that ever since Ben was born, Han and Leia would be gone for long extended periods of time trying to restore what they could of the New Republic while he was born. Leia was part of the Senate and Han continued to work as a general before the Republic got rid of its military. They never had much time for Ben. This allowed Snoke to manifest himself as a friend to him. This all occurs before he is nine. Ben is soon sent to the Jedi training academy to be with his uncle which he fears is bigger abandonment by his parents completely. He may not make many friends at the academy either as Luke carries on the pre-Clone Wars tradition of having no emotional connections or friends to strengthen him. Ben still gravitates towards Snoke for this affection he never got. Eventually he is promised by Snoke to join him and he runs away to the First Order. Snoke invites him in and encourages him to use the dark side with the Knights of Ren. Their brutal tactics turn him off at first, but he becomes stronger over time. Eventually, Snoke surprises Ren by having him prove his loyalty in an attack on the Jedi, which is torn at while doing. But for the sake of survival kills all of the Jedi in the academy and nearly his uncle in the attack.

 

Call me Capt Obvious but I think that Ben already felt excommunicated from his family prior to meeting Snoke. He was already emotionally troubled, sad, depressed, and afraid (key word) that he might not ever see his folks again. Remember what Yoda told young Anakin about fear, anger, hatred, followed by suffering... the path to the dark side. Ben started having those types of feelings, which led him to do the things that he's done.

However, not to go off on a tangent... I think there were a few major events that happened during his time as a student of Luke's that we still do not know about, which helped to make his turn inevitable. Snoke probably knew about him for some time, and contacted him during a specific moment of weakness. Snoke probably made him some kind of offer in return for his services, part of which was a leadership position with the mysterious Knights of Ren.

But beyond that, I don't want to make any more guesses lol... too much missing info atm.

 

What if Snoke did not seduce him
What if Snoke killed the younglings, Luke left, and Kylo "joined" the dark side to provoke Luke to come back to fight Snoke
It could explain at some point the discussion of Han and Kylo on the bridge before Han gets killed
For my opinion Han had a bit too much understanding for being killed by his own son
Maybe he knew that Kylo is "infiltrating" the FO and that his death may be the only way to get Luke involved again

 

Really my preferred version of this story would be that while Snoke probably visited Ben Solo as a child and monitored his growth, he was for the time he was a Jedi, was a decent human being and student. However, while training at the academy just like Rosh in Jedi Academy II, there is an ambush to kidnap him and kill his master assigned by Luke. Ben is taken to the compound of the Knights of Ren, tortured, and forced to join the dark side as the newest member of this cult. He grudgingly does so, but eventually becomes a servant of Snoke and the darkness. Through this torture, he also reveals the secret location of Luke's Jedi academy.

As this situation, has occurred the other Jedi went searching for him and found no trace. It's as if he suddenly disappeared without any trace or warning. No one can figure out why he is gone. Sort of how originally Obi-Wan didn't know why Anakin joined the dark while on mission to Utapau. When Ben does reappear he does so under the pain of death. If he doesn't help the Knights of Ren infiltrate his uncle's academy, he will be tortured even further and killed. Snoke has even threatened to do the same to his parents using assassins and corrupt officials which he has installed in the New Republic or otherwise. This causes Ben to do whatever it takes to help them under duress or blackmail. He infiltrates the site while Skywalker is away, lets the Knights of Ren in.

They strike and kill all of the padawans which Luke has brought with him there. Kylo gets away just for a moment to find Rey as a child by chance, knock her out, and hide her somewhere he can deal with at another time. Unable to find Skywalker, the group kills the others and flees. Each takes a separate fighter back. On his way back to the Knights of Ren compound his congratulated by Snoke. After he secretly drops his cousin on Jakku heads back to the compound. Ben stays with the Knights of Ren simply out of control. He feels it is absolutely impossible for him to escape the group alive because he is not strong enough to do so. Some of the reasons he has the angry outbursts later on is he can't forgive himself for allowing situation to have unfolded in the first place and allowing himself to be so powerless as well.

Luke simply returns to find the horror that his academy was destroyed without knowing much of the backstory as to why any of it even happened to begin with. All he knows is that for some reason his nephew turned against him and joined the dark side. He only sees one part of the whole story. It'll take for until Episode VIII or beyond to learn the whole truth. Perhaps because Rey was dropped on Jakku alive, he knows that his nephew will not be completely evil after all and hope still exists for a redemption.

 

This is the way I envision the seduction went...

Leia and Han insisted that Luke train their son. And of course, Ben would have heard all the stories and legends. "Anakin was the best star fighter in the galaxy, and a cunning warrior." He was the Chosen One, the one who would fulfill the prophecy. He would bring order to the Force. The Force is strong in my family - my father has it, I have it, my sister has it... and you have it too. While Luke may have tempered Ben's training by warning about the Dark Side, Ben remained skeptical.

And yes, in familiar Skywalker fashion, "He's holding me back!" Ben indeed was the best in the New Jedi Academy, and there was pride to be found; Ben studied his grand father. How his "fall from Grace" actually brought order to the galaxy. How he became one of the best Jedi (Sith) known to the galaxy. The Dark Side was calling to him, "Come to the Dark Side, we have cookies!" -- after all, his grandfather embraced the Dark Side and that's when his legend grew even more. With Luke trying to teach that the Dark Side is bad, even Luke is fully aware that he had to give into his hate to defeat Darth Vader. So there's some lack of conviction with each warning and each lesson he gave to Ben.

This is when Snoke appears, perhaps with the Knights of Ren, teasing and hinting Ben that he could become stronger and more powerful if he were to leave Luke behind. When Ben announces that he's going to leave, Luke warns him much like Yoda did Luke. Han and Leia also try to intercede, with Han being forceful rather than understanding. After all, Han probably "bad mouthed" the man responsible for putting him in carbonite and selling him to Jabba. Rather than showing understanding and patience with Ben, the arguments create that rift which only drives Ben to the Knights of Ren and Snoke.

Snoke wants to make sure that Ben is committed to the Dark Side, so he tasks him with destroying all of Luke's padawans and the New Jedi Academy - which Ben does, since it mimics Anakin's embracing of the Dark Side. Of course, he never feels "justified" -- simply pain. There's good in him, and he just can't get over the pain. Snoke simply tells him that the suffering is because he's only beginning his journey. Further and further, he must go to gain the power that Vader had. Killing his father was just another step to the seduction of the Dark Side.

 

I could see the notion that Ben left the academy at an early age to simply join Snoke. Luke and his parents definitely try to stop this attempt. They cannot stop him however and almost try to by Force. Ben leaves not really with the intention beginning to kill the other Jedi in the academy or his uncle, but instead simply to join the Knights of Ren. However, as time progresses, the Jedi begin getting into the affairs of the First Order too much. This may make Ben conflicted about his former past. To prevent losing of his student, Snoke orders Kylo Ren to destroy the Jedi and keep them out of the affairs of the First Order. Kylo grows to see his uncle and family as as big a menace as Snoke had always been pointing out because they can never seem to mind their own business and stay within the boundaries of the New Republic where they are supposed to be protecting.

 

Cookies....the Dark Side has cookies....

And now that Disney owns SW, Snoke and Kylo have access to Club 33.

 

You must be from California...

 

Did my accent give me away?

 

I like this. I always imagined Ben growing up with the best of things. Good house, good education,two good droids and friends. Parents are good but a little too absent. He developed force powers at a young age, but his parents and uncle thought him how to control these but decided not to train him. They wanted him to become a doctor or politician. Someone that can help people without getting into danger. But Ben was both fearful and excited by his power. He wanted to learn more about it. In his teens he developed a love of travelling. It was a chance to escape his families gaze. But the more he travelled outside republic space the more he saw the poverty and suffering of the normal people.. He also heard of a mysterious phrophet called Snoke preaching to people the virtue of the empire and the telling people about the lies the republic spread. Ben had many questions he sought out this snoke to learn more. He finally finds him and Snoke tells him of his true heritage. He was Darth Vaders grandson, the one who was to bring balance to the force, but was killed by his own son before he could fulfill his destiny. Ben returns home angry. He confronts Leia. She tells him the truth but he incensed that she kept this from him. He accuses her of spreading lies, telling her he saw the state of the galaxy. People suffer and the republic does nothing to help them. Leia decides to send him to Luke. If he wants to help those people than being a Jedi is the way to go. He trains with Luke for about 5 years, becoming strong with the Force. But grows fustrated when Luke holds him back. All the while he hears Snoke in his head, telling him that his destiny is to bring balance to the Force, that Luke is trying to stop that from happening. So he leaves. He finds Snoke and he tells him what he has to do. Luke must be taken out for balance to be restored. He begins embracing the Dark Side, becoming stronger than before. He recruits some of the finest warriors in the galaxy. They are not force senistive but he trains them in the Jedi arts. The attack the temple,killing students who oppose him and captures who he can. Luke refuses to fight his own nephew so he grabs what students he can and flee's. With the Jedi academy gone Snoke starts to rile up the masses, telling them now is the time to make the republic answer for the lies and failed promises. Snoke tells Ben that he is the new face of The First Order. He is fulfilling his destiny. Once he eradicates the light he will become more powerful than anyone. That start with his own name. He renames him Kylo and tells him to hunt down Luke once and for all

 

THIS.
I like this theory alot, because there's so much storytelling potential. Mainly side stories for many characters.
I especially like the part where luke managed to save a few students, and that opens many doors for the new saga. 10 different people coming to find the jedi on their own, because of a calling from Luke. Comics, TV shows, etc could follow their story.

 

Maybe what Ben saw that Vader truly wanted to bring order to the galaxy by overthrown Palpatine and having the family rule the galaxy in this capacity. They could bring order to the corrupt Senate which labeled Leia as a warmonger and put Han out of a job as a former general for its military after the Imperial concordance. With the Skywallker family in control of the galaxy they could maintain order and prevent the rise of the Sith or the weak Jedi from happening ever again which caused all kinds of havoc.

Snoke isn't Sith and he saw how horrible the Emperor was as he ruled. The Jedi were also blind and weak not to see the obvious rise of the Sith.

 

He must have preyed on young Ben Solo's insecurities. The pressure to deliver or accomplish the same if not greater achievement, coming from a family of legends, just imagine what it does to some people.

 

How connected do you think Snoke was/is to the Knights of Ren, though? Something about the way he said "even you, master of the Knights of Ren, have never faced such a test" made me feel like Snoke wasn't super connected to the Knights? Otherwise wouldn't the Knights be serving the first order? They will probably be in the next movie and then we will see, but I think the Knights are sorta separate from Snoke, even if Snoke encouraged Kylo to join them. And do you think Snoke gave Kylo Ren his new name or did Kylo give it to himself? Or did the other Knights give it to him?

 

IDK, but I hope we get more detail on their history and relationship in some dialog between Snoke and Kylo in Episode 8.

 

Snoke to Kylo: If you do not become a Sith Lord they will place a Jar Jar character to Episode 7!

 

Perhaps, Snoke's corruption centered on distorting the younger Ben Solo's understanding of the family history?

If Ben's parents and uncle were reluctant to expose him to more information about the Dark side inclination that seems to surface so strongly in him and thus gave him an incomplete picture of who Darth Vader was, "wise" Snoke could've exploited that curiosity, thereby cementing a very flawed perception of Vader and of this family's legacy/destiny.