How did Yoda lose to Dooku in AOTC?

Definately agree, for example had anakin simply tried to land next to obiw-wan 4 meters or more away without flipping over him at the end of episode 3 there would be no need for an iron lung, instead he made an impulsive decision and obi-wan took advantage.

The difference is that the Yoda vs Dooku fight was a draw combat wise, I think in terms of boxing, scoring by landing hits. I find it to be a fascinating fight in that Yoda certainly had the upper hand, but was unable to take advantage and get past Dooku's defenses but lost the war because Dooku was able to escape. I just don't care for the way it was depicted on screen, the episode 3 yoda fight was a much better and more dignified style to have yoda fight with.

 

I wouldn't say it was a draw combat-wise in terms of lightsaber use. All else, they seemed to go to a stalemate. But had the lightsaber battle continued without Dooku making the pillar fall, I think Dooku would have been a gonner.

 

I havent read all of the posts but I have noticed that a lot of them center around this logic.
(Yoda tried to "catch" Dooku)



That's just plain wrong. There is nothing onscreen that suggests this. If Yoda was really trying to catch Dooku, he would have went after him as soon as Dooku fled the battleground. He didnt because that was not his plan, that was Obi-Wan and Anakin's plan.

Yoda doesnt even think about going out there until he "overhears" Obi-Wan and Anakin's argument. Once he heard that, he realized that those two were not going to get out of this situation alive because they were not on the same page. THEN once he hears that he tells the clone officer to get him a ship.

His entire plan seemed to be "save Kenobi and Skywalker", He knew they were not going to make it out alive so he went to their aid, Yoda wasnt "after" Dooku....if he was he would have went right after Dooku once he moved the pillar (it's not like he had made it that far away) that was just never his main priority.

So if you watch the movie and listen to the dialogue, you'll know that Yoda was never after Dooku.


EDIT:
And for the record-
Yoda didnt lose to Dooku. He just stood there and casually blocked everything that Dooku threw at him.
It looked like a teeneager "play fighting" with his 6 year old brother.



r8hitman

 

I agree that it wasn't necessarily Yoda's goal to catch or kill Dooku. Logic would assume he was following the will of the Force here, and killing Dooku wasn't in the plan. He definitely meant to protect Obi-Wan and Anakin though. He deflected everything Dooku threw at him without much difficulty, and then opted to save Obi-Wan and Anakin rather than continue after Dooku. The fact that Dooku ran, instead of remaining to provoke Yoda, definitely says something as well. It was not a day for either one of them to die, you can feel it just as much as they seem to.

 

I agree with what you said Yoda's goal was not to kill Dooku, but it was to stop him from escaping. From Yoda's own dialoge we get the impression that he went to the hanger for one reason, to stop Dooku from escaping, not to save or protect anakin or obi-wan imo.

 

While there is nothing in the film to say that Yoda wasn't going to capture Dooku, that doesn't mean that it's not possible. Dooku is their link to the Sifo-Dyas mystery as well as being a Sith Lord, they must determine if he's the Master or the Apprentice. All Yoda says is that Dooku escapes, then he will rally more systems to his cause. Nowhere is it hinted or implied that arresting or killing Dooku was the only way to go.

Yoda saved Obi-wan and Anakin, not out of attachment, but because it's the right thing to do. Jedi save lives all the time and attachment has nothing to do with it. Dooku knew that Yoda is a compassionate person and thus he will save the lives of those who will be slain.

 

And what dialogue would that be??

From his actions and facial expressions ON FILM he went to make sure that that Obi-Wan and Anakin were going to be OK.

You have to ask yourself:

"What event caused him to ask for a ship"?

"Was it Dooku's escape, or was it something else"?

"Did it seem like Yoda could 'hear' Kenobi and Skywalker's conversation"?

"Did he seem like he was trying to capture Dooku AT ALL during the fight"?

"Did he approach the fight, like he didnt want him to escape"? (if yoda doesnt want you to escape....YOU WONT ESCAPE. just ask Sidious. )

Just think about that and you'll know what Yoda's intentions were.

 

Yoda is all business.

Remember what he told Luke:

Luke: "And let my friends die"?

Yoda: "If you value what they fight for....YES"

If his mission was to capture Dooku he would have done it. (or at least TRIED to capture him. He didnt even really try.)

Obi-Wan and Anakin couldnt handle Dooku and they were in serious trouble, and Yoda knew it.


r8hitman

 

Yoda didn't lose, if anything he was in control of the battle, making Dooku whiff several times using the Force to guide his acrobatics. Dooku resorted to the someting dishonorable, threatening Obiwan and Anakin with that pillar just so he could bolt.

 

If Dooku could scrap up a draw with Yoda, and Ankain could beat Dooku...then why couldn't Anakin pull off up a draw or a win with Yoda?

But of course, the situations were different, but still...

 

Dooku didnt "scrap up a draw" with Yoda. Yoda toyed with him and even talked a little smack and Dooku ran off.

Anakin got frustrated and had to tap into the darkside to beat Dooku, Yoda kept cool and beat "mr. cool"......Yoda is the man.

(or the 'whatever he is' )

 

Yoda did not beat Dooku, and Anakin of ROTS is atlest equal to Yoda in lightsaber combat, the move Anakin pulls on Dooku is not him just overpowering him, it was the best move of any lightsaber fight to beat another person, and was from skill and power. Anakin would have been more than a match for Yoda in a fight, ROTS.

 

It was a dead stalemate, and Dooku could sense that Padme and the clone troopers were coming, most likely. Rather than drag the fight out and risk being overpowered by multiple foes (Dooku's lightsaber style is weak against blaster bolts, according to EU), he decided to distract Yoda and run. His goal was not to defeat Yoda..he was trying to escape with the Death Star plans and report to Sidious.

 

Dooku's display of power in AOTC was simply awesome.

But I think I would have done this with Dooku. Instead of making him a Sith, make him a rogue/Dark Jedi, who wants to get rid of the Sith. Have him wield dark side powers, but not be a Sith. I thought that would have been sweet. And then he wouldn't know that Sidious was Palpatine, he'd have been duped into starting a war he had good intentions for.

If Yoda didn't claim he was a Sith after using the dark side in AOTC, then the dark side does not equate to being a Sith. Dooku should have been a dark force user who was not a Sith.

 

Dooku only fled because help was on the way. Otherwise he'd stay and finish the fight.

 

Exactly. He could sense the approach of the clone dropship, and he knew his Form II had a flaw against multiple blaster bolts, so he ran.

 

he also had to be somewhat tired after just fighting Anakin and Kenobi.

 

True, the man was eighty years old, and a human.

 

as far as I'm concerned about the Dooku-Yoda duel, it was interrupted by the oncoming troops and Jedi. Not one blow was landed, and thus it must be called a draw.

 

It did seem to be more or less even. It's near impossible to tell how it could have turned out. Both men were visibly fatigued at the end, especially Yoda, who could barely walk after Dooku retreated.

 

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Yes, it has been said a hundred times that Yoda did not "lose" he simply chose to save OBW and Anakin and let Dooku escape.

My problem is that the entire scene doesn't make sense. IMO Dooku shoulod have got away by defeating anakin and OBW and left it at that.
OR
If Yoda was able to make the scene on time, then Dooku shouldn't have been able to get away. It takes away from our awe of Yoda's power. Everyone knows Yoda is more powerful than Dooku - BUT WHY DOES HE HOLD BACK??????!!!!!!! ITS JUST NOT RIGHT he should have wiped him out in one minute, after the arena scene where who knows how many jedi died at the hands of Dooku.

Sorry, I just cant let it go...

 

Dooku himself said the contest could only be settled via the use of lightsabres. He was then forced back every inch until Yoda told him "fought well you have" - note the use of past tense here; basically Yoda was saying "game over, I'm going to carve you up". Dooku knew he was no match and so had to resort to the lowest common denominator to get the hell out of there.

 

It's not meant to take away the awe from Yoda in TESB. That's what ROTS is for. Dooku getting away shows that the Sith know the weakness of the Jedi. Compassion.

Palpatine: "His compassion for you will be his undoing."

It is the weakness of all Jedi, in the eyes of the Sith. Dooku knows that when push comes to shove, Yoda will save innocents over stopping the villian. To do otherwise would devestate the Grand Master. It's the classic manuver of the villian. Distract them with the fate of their loved ones or with common folk, while the villian escapes to return another day.

 

Yes, I agree with all that is said, but my question still remains....

Why was Yoda so easy on Dooku? Had he been really on the job he wouldn't have toyed with Dooku and just cut him down?

 

Ahhh but when people discuss Yoda vs. Sidious, they love to say that Yoda just "ran off". But you'll quickly give Dooku the benefit of the doubt and say "he sensed reinforcements coming" but old, ancient, extremely powerful Yoda didnt sense Sidious' reinforcements coming.