How did Yoda lose to Dooku in AOTC?

I disagree with this reading. We see Dooku stressed by the Kenobi/Skywalker duo, but we also see him adapt to their unexpected power. Dooku is also not fighting at his full potential at the beginning of the fight. Dooku is somewhat ignorant of their power going in, but by the end he has a) survived it, b) taken out Obi-Wan, c)understands what makes Anakin tick, and d) knows how to use that to destroy Anakin's concentration. They've failed to catch him off guard, and now he knows what he's facing and has (like Kenobi at the end of ROTS) won the mental side of the fight. With Sidious's coaching, though, Anakin learns to draw on the dark side and takes Dooku down. Without Sidious's intervention, he would have lost.

Since almost the entire fight is done from Dooku's perspective, we don't see, for instance, Kenobi's reaction to getting owned hard. Dooku doesn't percieve his opponents as sweating the fight, but Anakin doesn't percieve Dooku as sweating it either - his takedown of Kenobi is 'without apparent effort'.

Perhaps a better analysis of the whole fight can be done through hits landed in the novel.

Dooku:
hits Anakin with a chair
hits Anakin with another chair
hits Anakin with giant situation table (disarms)
<after they reveal their true styles>
lands a minor kick on Obi-Wan
lands a minor kick on Anakin
smashes Obi-Wan into wall with the Force
kicks Anakin across the room
kicks Obi-Wan across the room in a combo move with above
smashes Obi-Wan into the wall and drops the balcony on him(one of the last two disarms and KOs Obi-wan)

Anakin:
<after they reveal their true styles>
Slices Dooku's cloak in a near hit.
Indirectly dumps Do

 

dang, I need to read the novel LOL. Stuff like Anakin hitting Dooku's cape instead, tables getting smashed... talk about exciting. But poor Obi-Wan, he has so much trouble with the old man.

 

Although we seem to have gotten a little off-track here, in discussing the Obiwan+Anakin vs. Dooku fights, I'll add that it doesn't bother me very much that Obiwan couldn't do ANYTHING against Dooku, but could still own Grievous and beat Anakin...because he was the ultimate defensive specialist. Grievous, with all his automated speed, couldn't land a blow, and Same with Anakin. In ROTS, Dooku couldn't touch him either, with his saber. WHat he could do, however, was use his much greater knowledge and control of the Force to beat Obiwan. Anakin, though more powerful than Obiwan, didn't have nearly the knowledge and control of the force that Dooku did (yet), and so was able to be mentally played with and outclassed.

Re: the original purpose of this thread...
I think it's clear that Yoda had the upper hand, and Dooku did what he had to to escape. Maybe Yoda wasn't technically winning by having landed any blows (note: Dooku hadn't either), but he certainly showed he was way more than Dooku could keep up with, and his lines seem to indicate that he was about to end it. He had already seen all Dooku had up his sleeve, and he knew he could easily take it all, and respond with an onslaught that Dooku couldn't touch.

 

I think its just completly ridiculous that some people think Yoda lost.

If you think he lost..you were just somewhere else.

 

r8hitman

 

See the novel (and other EU) is what throws people off IMO. You guys read the novel and then try to "fill in the blanks" using what you've read in the novel.

George knows that his movies will be viewed by people who dont even know that the novel exist, so you have to let the movies speak for themselves. The comics, novels, and other SW info that's not ONSCREEN is EU IMO.

Some people incorporate it into their overall view of the story......I dont. I'm not knocking you if you do, but try to look at this from the POV of someone who ONLY watches the movies.

(except for a few comics that I bought back in the early 80's )

 

Yoda's first priority SHOULD HAVE BEEN to stop dooku, and that even if he asked for a ship because he sensed Anakin's distress, his priority still was to stop Dooku (which was OBW and ANAKIN's priority as well).

IT is depicted on screen as a draw (strategically more than combat).

However, I AM CONFUSED AT YODA'S CASUAL HALF-ARSED ATTEMPT TO TAKE DOOKU DOWN. He knew how many jedi he had killed and that OBW and Anakin were injured,. DOOKU HAD TO BE KILLED, AND YODA WAS VERY LAZY IN GETTING THE JOB DONE (he didn't).

WHY THE CHIT CHAT AND FOREPLAY? WHY NOT JUST LAUNCH AT DOOKU WITH ALL HIS POWER?

Somehow I realise that I will never get an answer to these questions because it is imperative that Dooku escape for the plot to remain true... a real shame.

 

Or maybe Yoda just couldn't. Either he's guilty of gross negligence in letting Dooku get away, or his combat power is not all that. Pick one? *shrug*

 

Back it up. First, Mas takes off after Yoda is blasted into the wall. Palpatine stands up and walks over to him, cackling the whole time. Yoda gets up and Force shoves him back over his desk. Then Palpatine tries to run from Yoda, but is blocked by the Grand Master. That's when Sidious starts to fight him. I am not denying nothing here. I'm just pointing out that prior to that, Sidious was very confident and felt that there was no reason for him to run. Much less to call for help or have Mas go get some help. It's after the fight in the Senate that Palpatine calls for help to find Yoda's body. Mas shows up and stands with Palpatine to make sure that he's fine.

 

Yoda didn't lose to Dooku. Yoda was unsuccessful in taking down Dooku for one reason: to save Obi-wan and Anakin from being crushed by the huge pillar. If Yoda was able to make a few more moves before Dooku crushed the pillar and ran away, I'm sure Yoda would have been able to disarm him, or at least destroy his saber and have him arrested.

Sure, we all know for storyline reasons, Dooku had to escape. Which doesn't make Yoda look bad, because he saved his fellow Jedi from certain death. It's my understanding that using the force to choose life rather than take it is part of the Jedi way, and one of the many ideals that makes you on the light side rather than the dark.

 

I think thats about as close to an answer as I'm going to get...

 

It actully looks like for the most part we agree. I understand that Sidious felt he could best anyone including Yoda, right up to the point where Yoda slammed him, then reality set in. Where we disagree is the only way for the troopers to get there as fast as they did was for Mas to call them out when he left the office. In other words, Mas apparently was not as confident that Sidious would beat Yoda, or he wouldn't have called the troops in as soon as he did.

 

Why Oh Why this thread has made it to six pages, yikes!

 

Yes, this topic has reached 6 pages... but I think IMO the above has been said many times, and it is about as close as we can get to the truth.