I don't like the concept of Shmi being impregnated by the force

I am just glad that Anakin wasn?t born out of Zeus head or had an elephant for a father.

I am a Catholic & I don?t find the Virgin birth offensive, it gives Anakin a ?mysterious birth? & it?s the easiest one to do. I don?t think of Shmi as Mary because she is not in the Story enough. Anakin is more like the Heroes in the book of Judges or one of the Greek demi-gods. Jesus he is not.
You could also say that the Fifth Element contains bits a Christianity ? the perfect being that saves the world.
& Superman, which was created by Jews is a messiah of sorts.

I don?t think Anakin is anything like Buddha. Buddha didn?t take offence at insults and he managed to detach himself from the world.
If anything Anakin is the opposite of Buddha.

 

I don't like the concept of Shmi being impregnated by the force

Shmi didnt say she was.

SHMI : There was no father, ..I carried him, I gave him
birth...I can't explain what happened. Can you help him?



Think of Anakins birth the same as South Parks' Erik Cartman's. Its so simple, Shmi was a hermaphrodite.

 

I was thinking more in terms of the whole 'mom-got-pregnant-by-supernatural-means' angle. So, I guess people making the Jesus analogy are incorrect, because I don't remember Jesus selling out to an old wizard and helping slaughter children and friends.

 

Let's easy up on Vaderfan14.

My friend, you're going to find that Jesus didn't write the book on divine births. Many famous mythological characters have all come from divine creation. In mythology, many heroes were created by those who were godlike. Zeus created Persus and Hercules by mating with mortal women. Buddha was said to come from divine background. Beowulf was yet another, if I recall. In modern day stories, Neo was created by the Architect and the Oracale in the Matrix Trilogy.

The Force might have created Anakin Skywalker, but there is no difinitive proof of this either. According to Lucas, either the Force did this or one of the Dark Lords of the Sith did it. It is left unsaid, but it is there. Lucas draws upon religion and mythology, though he favors mythology more than religion. Darth Sidious is not only Satan, but he is also Hades, Iago and Faust. The Force is based more off of the Tao, Zen Buddha religious beliefs than Christianity.

 

If anything...Anakin is Satan. Satan was once good, Sidious was never good.

 

Some corrections.

As far as anyone knows, Jesus didn't leave any writings of any kind. I realise you were being satirical, but as far as history is concerned in relation to Christian myth, the accounts of Jesus' life were passed down orally and only committed to papyrus several generations after his crucifixion.

I don't mean to sound facetious -- but this could also contain errors. Based on my limited knowledge, however, I don't perceive any.

Edit: I'm not sure that The Architect or The Oracle created Neo. In "The Matrix Reloaded", The Architect tells Neo that he is the product of a systemic flaw inherent to the imperfect revolutions of The Matrix (i.e. those revolutions wherein human beings were given the illusion of choice -- as opposed to the first "Eden" variation). In a sense, by proxy, The Architect did "create" Neo, because he created The Matrix and designed the equations which he knew would eventually give rise to him, but on the other hand, it wasn't an immediate or conscious birthing decision, but merely one that arose as a natural consequence over time.

Religion is a way of structuring and venerating myth (though not all myths achieve this structure and veneration). But, for the purposes of your comment, they are one and the same thing. There is Christian mythology, Islamic mythology, Buddhist mythology, Grecian mythology, Zoroastrian mythology and so on. All of these mythologies are then organised into patterns and disseminated to populaces according to the dictates of societies and cultures in given passages of time.

Incorrect. Faust, or Doctor Faustus, is the eponymous alchemist who sells his soul to Mephistopheles. Anakin is Faust and Palpatine is Mephistopheles.

You're practically the PT Oracle here, sinister. But you made a number of errors stepping out of that field. Please check your facts more closely.

 

I commend you for being 14 years old and sticking to your guns about your religion. I've pretty much noticed that telling people in high school (When I was there and now that my brother in law is finishing off) that you believe in god makes you look like an idiot. It's even worse on internet message boards. I will say that I do not share your views, but I respect your opinion and beliefs and do not care to argue them.

That said, I have to bring this back to the original question. I think you can look at the virgin birth part a few ways. First, as others have said, there are other religions all through history with the idea of a savior and a virgin birth. With a large number of people in the world having an understanding of a virgin birth, it was a storyline that people could relate to.

Secondly, you know that Star Wars is fiction. YOU also know that the Biblical immaculate conception was NOT fiction (Note I stress YOU and NOT fiction as there are others who don't share your view). Anakin Skywalker does not take the place of Jesus because Anakin Skywalker isn't real. In the film however, he was something VERY VERY special. Young Anakin Skywalker was a very good person, helping strangers with no thought of reward....etc. It's a credit to how powerful the story of Jesus Christ is that Lucas chose his special character to exhibit some similarities to Jesus.

Of course, the insulting part may be the fall of Anakin Skywalker. This can get complex. There are arguements as to why Anakin fell. One of them is that Anakin may have not been an immaculate conception, but instead was created by a twisted evil Sith Experiment. Another way to look at it is that he marched down a path to demonstrate to the Jedi and the Galaxy at large that you don't fight evil with evil - you fight evil with Love. If you are indeed into the Bible, you should be aware that God himself wasn't above killing people that were not following the proper rules. Soddamn and Gamorrah....The Great Flood... Old Testement examples of God having to take extreme measures to set humans straight again.

Finally, remember that Star Wars is just a story. It is one where selflessness and love triumph over greed and evil in the end. Do not be immediately insulted and assume that it is a jab at Jesus. Open your mind to all possibilities of the origin of Anakin and why he fell. Maybe even think about it as a glimpse of what could have happened had Jesus not been so good. Observe the human aspects of Anakin and see how far greater Jesus was than the Chosen One of Star Wars. Don't ignore it, analyze and learn from it. You may find yourself appreciating Jesus even more than you do now. You may find yourself leaning in the other direction. Faith is a lifelong journey. You are young and have many years of different experiences ahead of you, probably some that will test your faith. Honestly, don't blindly follow it, question it at times. If you find that after questioning it that you still believe, it will only make your faith stronger.

Carnage

 

As a Muslim who also believes in Jesus and the immaculate conception as depicted in the Quran, I suggest we leave religion out when we walk into the theater.

Seriously. If one is to brood over every instance something doesn't fit into religion one may as well forget all forms of artistic expression.

Having said that, I have to also add that I enjoyed the PT thoroughly and the concept of Anakin having no father and Shmi not knowing how she got pregnant as an interesting interdiction into the workings of the Force.

Maybe Lucas wanted to create symmetry to the Jesus paradigm, but at the same time, in PT and OT lore, Anakin's conception raises many questions allowing us - the fans - to speculate, debate and theorize. And that's the fun of it.

As a 14 year old, if you are indeed 14, dont take life so seriously. Kick back and enjoy your youth. The heartache and mind-numbing comes later, believe me.

 

Go watch Harry Potter.

 

No one is perfect.

"We also get into this thing of what are Midichlorians, how they work which advances a little bit of the story of the Force, and how does the Force work, how we come to know the Force which is part of Anakin?s training in learning to become a Jedi. And take the idea of the Force one step further. The Midchlorians are kind of a side issue. Not in a sort of spiritual, metaphysical part of the Force, but the more practical, biological, physical part of the Force, or how we come to know the Force, which has to do really with the genetics of why some people have more in tune to the Force than others."

--George Lucas, Star Wars-The Phantom Menace: The Annotated Screenplays, 1999.

"It was a virgin birth in an ecosystem of symbiotic relationships. It means that between the Force, which is sort of a life force, and reality, the connectors between these two things are what we call Midichlorians. They're kind of based on mitochondria, which are a completely different animal, that live inside every single cell and allow it to live, allow it to reproduce, allow life to exist. They also, in their own way, communicate with the Force itself. The more you have, the more your cells are able to speak intuitively to the Force itself and use the powers of the Force. Ultimately, I would say the Force itself created Anakin. I don't want to get into specific terms of labeling things to make it one religion or another, but basically that's one of the foundations of the hero's journey."

--George Lucas, Feburary 2005 issue of Vanity Fair, page 117.

"There is a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the Midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the Midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the Midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, 2005

"Ultimately the Force is the larger mystery of the universe. And to trust your feelings is your way into that. It is an issue of quieting your mind so that you can listen to yourself, and as Joe [Campbell] would say, 'Follow your bliss.' It?s to follow your talent, is one way to put it. That?s the way I see it. The hardest thing to do when you are young is to figure out what it is you?re going to do, and you?ll never know what it is you?re going to do. But if you follow the things you enjoy...I?m not sure anyone really enjoys making money; they may enjoy what they do after they?ve made it, but they don?t enjoy the process. If you can find something that you actually enjoy in the process, then you have found your bliss.

They try to show us our place. Myths help you to have your own hero?s journey, find your individuality, find your place in the world, but hopefully remind you that you?re part of a whole and that you must also be part of the community and think of the welfare of the community above the welfare of yourself."

--George Lucas, ?The Mythology of Star Wars,? Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth DVD, 2001

 

I like the possibility that Anakin was created as a way to counteract what was being done by Sidious and/or Plagueis.
And then maybe the sith too knew about the prophecy and knew the time was to strike;however,Anakin eventually overcame what was thought by the sith to be his destiny, an dark lord eternally, and destroyed his own master and himself to save his son.

Sometimes a little mystery or ambiguity makes things appear deeper in storytelling than being explicit. It's a way of adding depth by implication rather than explicit exposition or dialogue.

 

That was hilarious. Way to respond to a very condescending post!!

Anyways, I don't know why once again the defenders of this poorly-done PT are skirting the issue. First off, GL CLEARLY wanted to bring messianic symbolism to Anakin by having him born by immaculate conception. Give me a break, it's obvious. How would millions of people not see paralells to Jesus? The problem is that the weak attempts to infuse some actual religious and philosophical symbolism and themes into these films fall short.

It's almost as if when GL is writing the stories on his yellow note pad he thinks "I want this to be "epic" and have "spiritual symbolism" and be "mythical" so he just throws in a prophecy here and an immacualte conception there for good measure. Logic be damned. The prophey never made sense (and ultimately makes the OT unecessary) and the immaculate conception is completely illogical.

Anakin was conceived by the midichlorians??? What?? By the films, the midichlorians are microcellualr conduits by which one can hear the will of the force. How do they possibly impregnant a woman?? None of this makes any sense. and GL makes no effort to even try to explain it. Just accept it. This is just weak storytelling.

Not to mention that this means the Force is actively manipulating world affairs. If that is the case why not just take Sidious out yourself and save all the trouble?

I don't mind that Anakin was born "with no father." But if you are not going to even remotely develop or explain such a concept it just comes off as hokey and a weak attempt to elevate one's story to "mythos."

 

On that happy basher note, then every story with any sort of symbolism at all falls short and everything sucks. We should boycott all films.

As I said before we do see that Anakin meets the symbol of many different messiahs from every religion that has immaculate conception as a theme and it applies well to SW which not only pulls from many mythos but is a mythology all its own.

 

>>>> I was thinking more in terms of the whole 'mom-got-pregnant-by-supernatural-means' angle. So, I guess people making the Jesus analogy are incorrect, because I don't remember Jesus selling out to an old wizard and helping slaughter children and friends.



Of course, Dawg, Jesus was also offered a Faustian pact, by the Devil.
Difference is, he turned it down.

But then Anakin's story is of a fall from grace, to show just how close we are to responding to the potential for evil, that lies within us all....


-JR

 

>>>> It's almost as if when GL is writing the stories on his yellow note pad he thinks "I want this to be "epic" and have "spiritual symbolism" and be "mythical" so he just throws in a prophecy here and an immacualte conception there for good measure.

This is just so off-beam, GDS.
The level of mythological and political referencing, that has gone into the PT, far out-weighs the OT.

Your suggestion, GDS, that George has 'flippantly' crafted the PT, is almost laughable when you read articles like this one, that Cryogenic posted the other day:

Defense of the Clones, By David Begor, 2002


-JR

 

The level of mythological and political referencing, that has gone into the PT, far out-weighs the OT.

Okay, after that nice bit of OT bashing.

Touche, my friend.

 

Obi Wan Jr -- That article makes some very good and valid points but it is not addressing what I am talking about. Aside from GL using Joseph Campbell as a guide, the philosophical and religious themes are lacking. The story does NOT need them, but if you are going to employ them, they should be done well.

What is the explanatin behind the immaculate conception of Anakin? The Jedi don't even seem remotely concerned or even surprised by it. One would think this would set off all sorts of alarms. But no, it's never even mentioned again. Not even by Anakin! lol.

And if such a powerful device is going to be used, then it should be developed or at least be logical. I can ask the same questions again: how do midichlorians possibly impregnate a woman??

And again, if the Force is now going to actively manipulate the affairs of people unilaterally, then why not just zap Sidious end bring the balance back right away??

The concept is just dropped from the story and never mentioned again for 2 1/2 films. That is why I said it seems like Gl is just throwing ideas in for the sake of it.

Once the logic is gone, the symbolism really carries little weight.

 

I don't like the lack of a father either... Maybe she felt shame about the way she got pregnant and lied. Maybe unsafe sex on a first date. But if it was the Force who did it, how did it happen? I don't want the Force to be too animate, to be able to "think" by itself. But maybe some "Force radiation" flew through her body, causing the genes of one egg cell to slip into the nucleus of another thus making a complete set of genes and getting the egg cell to start dividing. But...the result of just that would be a girl, so let's also say that the "Force rays" also caused a physical reaction that transformed one X-cromosome to a Y?

 

Well, this is what happened. Shmi and The Force were drinking one night. One thing led to another and...

 

Anakin was NOT an immaculate conception! GRRR!
The Immaculate conception refers to Mary being born via normal biological means but without original sin.

Jesus was a virgin birth and the incarnation( both truly God & truly man).

Anakin was a virgin birth.

Weather he was or was not an incarnation of The Force is up for debate.

 

First off, GL CLEARLY wanted to bring messianic symbolism to Anakin by having him born by immaculate conception. Give me a break, it's obvious.

Huh ? Last time I checked, there was nothing in the Bible about midichlorians.

 

Your post, evidently, is a shining beacon of knowledge and enlightenment...

Poorly-done PT? Skirting the issue?

How about the alternate hypothesis:

The PT is not poorly done. The issue was not skirted.

We could just go back and forth like this. Such remarks contribute nothing to the discussion at hand. Why even bother making them, Green_Destiny_Sword?

And what's wrong with that? I'll borrow the formatting of darth-sinister for this:

"The midi-chlorians have brought Anakin into being as 'the chosen one' who brings balance to the universe. Most heroes are conceived in an unusual way. And in this particular case, it's actually not Immaculate Conception, it's conception by metaphor."

-George Lucas, The Making of Episode 1, Random House, 1999.

Is there anything wrong -- anything wrong whatsoever -- in Anakin being a messianic figure? It puts his whole life, including his evil deeds, and the saga itself, into fresh perspective.

There are some staunch claims in there.

Are prophecies meant to be clear and obvious -- or vague and ephemeral? Shouldn't we attach our own meanings? Isn't that what the characters within Star Wars did and what audience members watching Star Wars have? In the words of Obi Wan: you'e focusing on the negative. It's no surprise, therefore, that all you see is clumsiness and ineptitude.

More black-and-white proclamations. Again:

"The midi-chlorians have brought Anakin into being as 'the chosen one' who brings balance to the universe. Most heroes are conceived in an unusual way. And in this particular case, it's actually not Immaculate Conception, it's conception by metaphor."

-George Lucas, The Making of Episode 1, Random House, 1999.

Key phrase: conception by metaphor.

The conception itself doesn't need to be explained. Nor should it be. It is the saga's equivalent of a miracle. But the term "miracle" may be nothing but a placemarker for "unknown". Multiple explanations and meanings may therefore be fathomed and attributed to the event. Lucas leaves it vague enough, and implants an alternate suggestion in ROTS, for one's own interpretation to be attached.

 

I was just about to post the same comment when I read your post. What is this? I don't understand why people are out to insult others. Save yourself the humuliation and show some respect. "How old are you?" That has to be the lamest insult you can throw at anyone.

I like the idea of Anakin being created by the Force. I see him as a visual representation of it. I myself don't believe in Jesus, he represented all that was good in the world, and the fact is, everything isn't good. Having Anakin represent the Force and have him both good and bad (Jedi/Sith) is perfect for the story. It is fiction, and I don't think George was making a mockery of any religion.

 

"The part I am working on now is mostly about Darth Vader, who he is, where he came from, how he became Luke and Leia's father, what his relationship to Ben is. In Jedi, the film is really about the Redemption of this fallen angel. Ben is the fitting good angel, and Vader is the bad angel who started off good."

--George Lucas, Star Wars-A New Hope: The Annotated Screenplays, 1997

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil?everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars."

--George Lucas, ?The Mythology of Star Wars,? Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth DVD, 2001

"I tried, in my going through mythology, to distill down into certain basic ideas things that seem to exist in a great deal of mythology. Again, to try to find the themes and ideas that continue over a great amount of time and across a wide spectrum of cultures. The Force is a result of that. The Force is the way that many people view the great mysteries of 'Is there other realities at work other than the one we can perceive.' I think that the Force represents life?I mean another way to describe it is 'life-force.' It?s the spirit of life rather than the physical manifestation of it."

--George Lucas, Laserdisc Commentary, Star Wars Trilogy Definitive Collection, 1993