ST I don't remember Phantom Menace being as big as Force Awakens

Don't forget to consider inflation.

 

TPM made a lot of money. It was also received very badly by lots of critics, and got a much worse reception than TFA. One does not refute the other.

Aside from anything else, the reviews for TFA don't exist in a vacuum - many of them are clearly written with a careful tone even as they praise the film, to make it clear that they're acknowledging their opinion that TFA is better than the prequels

 

While I agree with the general point, I'd like to point out one difference of opinion and one place where the analogies don't hold up.

The difference in opinion, I think the first transformers movie was amazing for what it was. The rest, sure...lol. By contrast, I found and still find TPM almost unwatchable. AOTC and RotS are okay, but nothing special. TPM was basically the worst execution imaginable of a story i was interested in, so I was gonna see it.

The place where the analogy doesn't hold up is in the second post. the part about twilight. That's not a blockbuster that everyone agrees sucked, but the hype machine kept going. That's a blockbuster that a portion think was actually a good story, the other portion thinks it sucked, and never the twain shall meet. Neither side understands how the other even exists. Nobody saw those, especially the later ones, because of hype. They saw them because they liked them, or because their girlfriend did, or maybe even because their daughter did, but not because of hype. TPM was a hype machine that then had a twilight sized following after. But that first surge was full of the people who hated it. So think of TPM as a combination of both.

I saw TPM at the midnight showing the night before, and CLEARLY remember all the hype.

 

Yep. Oddly enough, TFA almost had the opposite going on. With the exception of Rebels and the tail end of the Clone Wars cartoon series, Star Wars media and merchandise had definitely waned over the past 5 years compared to the levels it used to enjoy.

Until the "push" for TFA began, of course.

 

Because very few people went back to see it more than once --- and many chose to not see it at all following the reviews.

The opposite has happened in this case.

 

episodeone- You nailed it.

 

I was doing my Masters degree back then and vividly remember loads of us packed in to the halls of residence computer room waiting for the dial-up connection (God, I hated you Quicktime) to reveal TPM trailer. Engineers, musicians, botanists....the excitement stretched across the disciplines. Step outside and the merchandise was everywhere. The hype has never been equaled; not by TFA; not by anything that I can remember. It was quite wonderful as I recall, and any issues that I have with aspects of the film today are somewhat offset by the happy memories from back then.

One thing that stands out clearly in my mind is how much people seemed to enjoy it. The bashing came a lot later. I saw it several times at Leicester Square and the place was always buzzing before and afterwards. I don't recall anybody hating it or saying that it was boring, and I suspect that might be because the vitriol of the internet was still in its infancy and we were far less exposed to such negative opinions. Also, a lot of people only ever watch these things once or twice in their lifetimes so just enjoy it like a firework. Repeated viewing is bound to reveal problems, but I often find that true of even the best films, partly perhaps because of viewer burn-out.

 

I have to disagree here. I'm a high school teacher and father of a son and nephew who are both 10.
Star Wars never lost any steam from everything I have witnessed since the release of TPM. My son and nephew were not even born when TPM came out. My son saw Revenge of the Sith in utero... But, by far, the prequels are their favorite movies and the favorites of students I've taught over the years. Many of the "younger" generation think the OT looks old and boring. AND, they didn't grow up reading how supposedly bad the Prequels were on the internet. The Clone Wars cartoon series was a huge hit, right from the beginning. Many of the students I teach love SW because of them alone. Rebels even more so. I think some of us old timers that grew up with the OT forget that not everyone is like us. Many of the things that were hated about the PT are actually selling points to the younger generation.

 

No doubt. That's likely a big source of the division in fandom as well.

 

This is a great thread... All the older fans giving us younger kids a glimpse of what it was like in 1999. I barely remember any of it. I do remember going to Target and looking at so much merchandise. I felt TFA 'midnight madness' was tame in comparison.

 

I wasn't really talking about the relative popularity of Star Wars as a whole or PT vs OT. I was talking about levels of available merchandise across the last five years specifically, and specifically noted Clone Wars and Rebels as exceptions.

There has definitely been less "stuff" available for Star Wars (and selling) in that timeframe. All you had to do was see the steadily-shrinking "Star Wars section" in any given toy-aisle to notice it. It was still one of the largest and most popular franchises out there, no doubt, but it wasn't as prolific as it was in the years just before and during the Prequels, or even as late as the original release of The Clone Wars CGI-toon.

Especially in the last two years (basically right after Disney bought them out) it's really felt like Star Wars was on a downswing. I also think this was intentional on Disney/Lucasfilm's part: To give the franchise as much of a "rest" as could reasonably be managed before the TFA onslaught began.

 

Yeah people went nuts in 1999, but it was a different time, there wasn't online advanced booking so people were queueing at the box office well in advance for their tickets dressing up playing games generally just having a blast and basking in the hype that had been building for 17 years. It was all over the news as well. I remember my dad pulling me out of school the first day of its release to go see it with my brother, I was 16. People were waving lightsabers about, some were in costume. Don't think I've seen anything like it before or since.

 

I think TPM *could* have been this big if social media existed in 1999.

 

I actually think that if TPM had been received as lets say 85% (to throw out a meaningless number ) as good as TFA it might have made even more money than TFA is making now. The hype prior to release really was at a fever pitch

 

I understand what you are saying. I'm not going to totally disagree with you, but, SW march was really big even after ROTS. Again, I have a son who's now 10 and a 10 year old nephew. They always are getting SW stuff. Not as much recently, but they have grown up with it. My son has been a SW character for Halloween every single time except for twice. His choice most of the time, not mine... (the first 3 years were my choice... )

When the prequels broke, I remember going to Walmart to get action figures before the movie came out. I was there at midnight. I still have a sealed box with the date on it containing one of each prequel series 1 action figure.

Before I actually saw ANH, I had a Darth Vader action figure. Our local grocery store had them. Crazy.

 

Please actually read what I stated. You keep arguing with me over points that I'm not making. The last 5 years, and even more so the last two, are what I am specifically referring to.

RotS was over 10 years ago.

The Clone Wars CGI toon launched in 2008, over 7 years ago.

 

I realize what you are saying. Nothing could compare to the merch bombardment with the release of each movie. I should have stated it better, but, The clone wars toys, halloween costumes etc... have been big. My nephew was Rex one year. While trick or treating, you saw tons of Asoka's, Rex, Cody along with Anakin and Obi.

Again, lots of toys

 

SW action figures had actually been big for a year or two before the prequels were released. I was a college senior in 97-98 and one of my roomates was always buying all the new figures they were releasing.

 

there was more hype for TPM ?
lol yeah right . sure there was hype for it ,but TFA has been hyped way more. practically every other commercial on tv for the past month has had a Star Wars tie in, ABC which Disney owns has been doing Star Wars related stories for many months on Nightline and Good Morning America, not to mention the business channels talking about it all the time. it's gotten to the point that even i'm tired of hearing the Star Wars theme in car commercials. not to mention i don't remember the TPM actors appearing on nearly as many tv shows. heck Jimmy Kimmel did an all -Star Wars show back before Thanksgiving.

 

You are correct.

 

It's probably hard to understand the difference unless you were there. After ROTJ, we basically got nothing until the 90s... when we started getting things like the Zahn novels, video games, etc.... I mean we are talking like 10-15 years with NOTHING.

Keep in mind that we've had constant SW stuff (outside of the films) coming out pretty much constantly since the mid 90s.

 

No

 

Yeah - so FYI... take it from an old person... the internet was pretty damn big already in 1999. You can probably find tons of SW threads from message boards back then.

I wasn't here then, but isn't that when they had to create a basher's forum or whatever?

 

Sorry, but it's not true. Seriously, read the reviews, watch the South Park episode. I have a book, The Journey of Luke Skywalker, released in 2001, where the author laments TPM. Hell, Spaced, with its scenes denouncing TPM, aired in 1999.

 

YES