I have the high ground?

Vader was intent on killing Kenobi wherever he was. The fact that he pursued him through the lava hell is proof enough of that. If he'd gone through all that, why should he fail at so seemingly simple a move?. Well, Kenobi new better. Vader was just drunk on power and basically stoned by that point!. Dare him, he'll ride the dare just to show what a power freak he is.

Basically, Kenobi was waving his tadger and daring Anakin to p*** higher.

 

Anakin could have jumped to the left or right easily. There's not doubt in that. Obi just wisely provoked him into the fateful move.

 

Yes he did reach that potential. It was said numerous times in the book, the movie, by Lucas. Everyone who mentioned it mentioned how Anakin had reached his potential in power. Lucas said it in the interview how Anakin was the strongest. Obi-Wan said in the movie that Anakin was the better Jedi. Mace said it in the book that Anakin was probably the most powerful Jedi alive. Anakin was THE most powerful force user in the galaxy, plain and simple. The potential that he failed to reach was his maturity and decision-making. He was not wise, he was not calm, he was not stable (also as Mace said in the book). As I said before, Anakin lost not because Obi-Wan was more powerful, but because Anakin was arrogant. Anakin was more powerful, that isn't in dispute. He just made a stupid move, clear as day when you realize that the dark side clouds one's mind.

As for Obi-Wan being the best Jedi, the best way to sum it up is this:

Yoda is the wisest
Windu is the fiercest
Anakin is the strongest
Obi-Wan is the model for the pure Jedi Knight, what a Jedi should be (strong, but not too strong, cunning, wise, calm, and selfless)

Somewhat like Lancelot was the strongest knight of the Round Table but Galahd was the most pure.

 

I think its kind of sad that it came to that in the end. That anikan the chosen one died because of some high ground crap. After an epic duel this is how it ends. I think they should of made it more climatic and more sense.

 

I understand your point about how it seems rather cheap at the end. Yet at the same time, it's fitting. Anakin cannot lose the duel from a fighting-standpoint. Lucas couldn't write it that way. Anakin is a superior warrior and a more powerful force-user than Obi-Wan. The only way he can really lose is through his own mistakes. That's the point of Anakin's fall. Obi-Wan doesn't beat Anakin, Anakin beats Anakin. Obi-Wan doesn't create Vader (the suit version), Anakin creates Vader. That's really the best, and only, way Lucas could have done it.



Though again, Anakin should have won the force-push duel, even if Obi-Wan wasn't actually pushing back.

 

I just have to laugh when that force push thing happens on screen because it's really just two guys holding their open hands in mid air and nothing is going on, yet there's all this dramatic music.

If they didn't get thrown back the way they did that scene would have been rediculous.

 

<<<<<<Yoda is so far past his prime that if the jedi order had a retirement home he'd be the senior member, wisest without question, most powerful- no way. He's still up there with the best of them but I attribute that to his skill making up for his diminished physical abilities. >>>>>

Uh... Ok, You've never seen a single SW film. Or just trolling... C"MON !! WHO WAS POWERFUL ENOUGH TO COMPETE WITH THE EMPORER.... NOT YOUNG OB1!!! Only YODA... or MACE.

i am almost insulted by this, but perhaps the fault is mine, maybe i wasn't clear enough.

Yoda is past his prime, and not the most powerful jedi in the PT. I consider that an inarguable fact.

It was yoda's experience combined with his, though diminished from his prime, unusualy high level of power that allowed him to fight the emporer to a draw that i believe he would have lost eventualy if fought to the death.

Mace on the other hand though not as experienced was considerably more powerful than yoda in the PT and was actualy given the opportunity to defeat sidious because of this.

It is unknown how obi-wan would have faired against the emporer, perhaps he isn't powerful enough, but i think his weakness is more one of not enough experience to have a good chance at winning that fight.

 

Lucas wanted to make it clear that Anakin lost because of his arrgoance and inexperience, not because he was less powerfull. He could've left that line out and smart people would've still gotten it, but most people would'nt have a clue. This is one of the first things the military will teach you about combat. Having the high ground is one of the biggest advantages.

 

You can consider it an inarguable fact all you like, but you'd be wrong. He's not past his prime. Did you not see AOTC? It has been stated by the hierarchy that Yoda is #1 in lightsaber combat, Dooku is #2, and Windu is #3. In Force power, obviously Anakin is #1, and I rank Palpatine #2 according to Lucas, but Yoda would be #3. Windu is a character created for Sam Jackson. He is only a back-up to Yoda in every way. He's powerful, no question, but he's not Yoda, also no question. Obi-Wan is wise and powerful yes, but he is NOT as wise as Yoda, only much wiser than normal humans should be, and he is probably not as powerful as Windu. That's debatable.

 

<<<<<<< Anakin could have jumped to the left or right easily. There's not doubt in that. Obi just wisely provoked him into the fateful move. >>>>>

no.. no.. no... People keep saying this, but what of OB1 and his power... I guess if Vader (lets call him the right thing here..) jumped to the left or right, OB1 would have just stood there right? NOT.. OB1 has powers to jump and move quicky as well. He had the higher ground no matter how Anakin would have jumped..

Yes, he provoked him, but he had the advantage no matter where Vader Jumped.

 

<<<<<<Yoda is past his prime, and not the most powerful jedi in the PT. I consider that an inarguable fact. >>>>>

Dude, you got to watch the movies and listen.... when ever Any character in the PT talks of the 'best' Jedi... they talk of Yoda. If someone here would like to put the quotes in for me, that would be great, but it is obviously laid out in the dialog and story that Yoda is #1. I hate to even argue with you because its so off and way out there to say something like this, its like saying Luke didn't destroy the Death Star or something... I really think you're trolling...

Yes, he was part of the lack-of-growth issue with the Jedi, but none was more powerful.....

Oh well, I'll put a couple quotes in myself

Palpatine:
"I forsee you becoming the most powerful Jedi ever... even more powerful than Master Yoda.."

OB1:
"If you'd practice your sabre techniques as much as you do your wit, you would rival MASTER YODA as a swordsman..."

 

I don't know if this has been brought up before as I haven't read through all 17 pages, but hos is OB1 able to slice off both legs and 1 arm in just one slice? Without also going through his torso? It would seem to me that for him to slice and arm off, and then continue through both legs, he would have to go through the torso to cut both legs off.

 

he sliced around anakins body....its hard to explain in words, but it is possible and probable.

someone said mace was "given the opportunity" to go after palpatine....not really, more like he just took it upon himself.

 

If only Anakin would've jumped slightly to the side and not directly at Obes Kenobes, He wouldn't have got needlesy chopped and the duel would have been longer...

if that ever happened, I wonder who would have won in the end?!?!? any thoughts?

 

From page 15
"How else would you have ended it?

Obi-wan cut off one limb at a time? And each time Anakin fight back as if nothing happened?

One leg gone and the duel would have been over!

Oh wait Anakin can use the force to prop himself up and fight at the same time.

Ridiculous! It couldn't have ended any other way and not look like Monty Python.

Is that what you guys really prefer?"
End of Page 15 post

Sorry about the late response, but I couldn't resist. The bottom line is that nothing leading up to this battle would suggest that OB1 would best Ani in a sword fight. If it were a battle of patience OB1 would win hands down. GL signed off on Labyrinth of Evil which clearly has OB1 in awh of Ani and knew that Ani was a greater Warrior. He states that he is a greater Jedi in ROTS but the meaning of this can be argued. Regaurdless, GL should have ending it in a way that gave OB1 a real advantage not just higher ground. I feel that Lucas should have lead us to believe that there was still conflicted with his decision to destroy OB1; therefore, DV would be battling ANi as well as OB1.

Another alternate ending:
OB1(exhausted) falls back to the edge of a cliff. Looking up at an empowered Vader, OB1 wonders if there is anything remaining of his brother.
DV: ?This is then for my Master.?
OB1: "It doesn't have to be this way!..Anikin,you were the chosen one. You were supposed to bring balance to the force not leave it in darkness.?
DV(tears in his eyes): ?you don?t understand the power of the dark side.? Vader leaps into the air to strike a final blow, when off to the side Padme screems: ?Ani, nnnnnnoooooooooo!?

Sorry, I couldn?t resist.

DV's strike misses as OB1 rolls to the side and with a well place swipe deprives DV of his left hand. DV rolls past OB1 and off the edge into the lava to his death. Padme collapses.
OB1 helps Padme to her feet and into the ship.
Pan down to the base of the cliff: having fallen knee-deep into lava, an injured DV pulls himself away with his mechanical-hand and arm only to catch fire. His scream turns from the high HC to the lower JEJ voice.

DV status-post helmet placement:
Sids: ?DV?
DV: ?Yes my Master.?
Sid: ?now you see what your Jedi friends had planned for you.?
DV: "Yes my master......Padme?"
Sids: I attempted to save her but she died in the hands of the remaining Jedi.

 

HE IS HIGHER UP IS NOT HE?

 

What I noticed is that Anakin does actually jump pretty far over Obi, but Obi leaps up and slices at him. My guess is, Obi knew exactly what Anakin was going to do (and Anakin used the same move that Obi used against Maul in TPM), he knew Anakin wouldn't leap over to safety - he would leap in for the kill.

 

I just realized something, the significance of Anakin not taking the way out that Obiwan offers him by saying you are beaten.

Anakin could have surrender, left and fight another day, or just embrace the will of the force (that is that his only way out was to die).

In ANH Obiwan stops fighting and becomes one with the force.

In ESB, Anakin learns that is better to back down re-group and then charge. Luke was overpowering Vader in the freezing chamber so Vader flees and then surprises Luke and uses force throw to hit him from a distance. SMART!

In ESB Luke is given a similar option to Anakin ('you are beaten, don't make me destroy you...') and Luke choses to die.

In ROTJ Luke has always the higher ground to Vader but doesn't want to fight him. First he kicks Vader over the stairs and later in the fight he backflips to the catwalk.

Nice parallels.

In the TPM ending I figure that the surprise in Maul's face has more to do that he kicks Obiwan's saber into the pit but forgets about QGJ saber. He's overconfident and Obiwan is smart to use the force to grab his master's saber while jumping and cutting Maul in two. Maul is surprised because he forgot all about that other saber lying there and was overconfident that Obiwan was already beaten.

EDIT: In response to this from a post The bottom line is that nothing leading up to this battle would suggest that OB1 would best Ani in a sword fight. You must be kidding, right?, go watch ANH

Vader: When you left me I was but the lerner, now I am the master.
Obiwan: Only a master of evil Darth

GO FIGURE it out!

 

TheAlmostChosenOne, congrats, you have passed your full initiation into the YiGC (Yoda is God Crowd)

for other entertainment you probably consider yoda to have fought sidious to at least a draw, but that yoda defeated dooku.

I find that to be a very consistant view among those who wear 'yoda colored' glasses.

 

Some random quotes about Yoda (not exact):

Obiwan (TPM): It's off the chart... not even Master Yoda has a midiclorian count that high!

Anakin (AOTC): [Obiwan] is as wise as Master Yoda and as powerful as Master Windu.

Palpatine: I see you becoming the greatest jedi of all time. Even more powerful than Yoda

Obiwan: If you spent half the time practicing your sable techniques... you'll be a better swordsman than Master Yoda
Anakin: I thought I already was!
Obiwan: Only in your mind my very young apprentice

Dooku: I see that this contest cannot be decided based on our knowledge of the force (to Yoda after Yoda deflected and absorbed Sith Lightning with his BARE HANDS!)

Obiwan (ESB): Even Yoda cannot see their fate! (if he can't, then no one can)

There are tons of canon references that Yoda is accepted as the most powerful Jedi there is. Anakin could reach even higher (if he had 800 years to hone in his skills). But alas he became deep-fried Vaderborg.

 

This is kind of off topic but I think that it is ridiculas that Mace windu had the emperor near death ( even if it was planned )But yoda the jedi master who is 900 years old can hardly touch the emperor in their dual and he has to run away. There is a serous power imbalence in the movie. Like how does griveous get killed so easily. In the clone wars cartoon he is like god and kills all these jedi but in the movie he gets his ass kicked.

P.S his lightsaber colors sucked. If hes going to be evil have one damn red lightsaber at least.

 

His lightsabers were different colors because they were taken off different Jedi. He can't build his own saber.

Greivous is somewhat injured in RotS if I remember the Clone Wars cartoon correctly.

No one ever said that Yoda is a better swordsman than Mace.

 

Well, the point is, all of grievous' lightsabres or ones he collected from jedi that he killed. That's why he doesn't have any red lightsabres.

 

Lol when I first saw Vader struck down by obi-wan it reminded me of Monty Python and the Holy Grail ! remember the black knight who gets all his limbs cut off one at a time! "Tis merely a flesh wound!" "I'll bite ur legs off!"

Yoda beat Palpatine in the lightsaber part... they merely cut out the bit where palpatine loses his lightsaber...unfortunately.

Mace only won because he got lucky and kicked palpatine's lightsaber out of a window! How could he have got it back?

 

It's only a movie.
It's only a movie.
It's only a movie.



Obi-Wan has the high ground because he not only has it physically, he also has the MORAL high ground.

P.S. - the knight in Monty Python does NOT get all his limbs cut off at once, midi-chlorian.