Ideology or Self-Determination?

Which is more important in Star Wars?

There are some people/organizations/governments who wish to share and spread their Ideology to the entire galaxy, for believing it is inherently right or the closest thing to perfection. It could be Jedi philosophy, Sith rule, the new Imperial vision, the Separatist movement, the Galactic Alliance cause, Democracy, Monarchy, etc. They think it's right and that it's worth fighting for. Examples could be the Jedi fighting for the Old Republic to keep systems in it by force, Palpatine believing since he is the most powerful he should rule, Caedus thinking the best way to bring peace is through displays of force to instill fear, the Imperials believing it is best in all interests to serve the Emperor, Cal Omas thinking the Galactic Alliance should be indivisible, Luke believing the best way to serve the Force is by supporting the Galactic Alliance, the Yuuzhan Vong thinking every infidel world is theirs for the taking, etc. It is capable of both "good guys" and "bad guys," thinking they know best and should decide for others, at some level. The Clone Wars really were an "idealistic crusade" as Obi-wan said, telling Luke of Owen's opinion.

Then there are those who believe in Self-Determination, that we should stop trying to control events and just respect the free will of others, even if they disagree with their particular ideology. An example of this would be if the Alliance gave Corellia an ultimatum, listen to us or leave, if they had been willing to let go and realize your ideology can't be all-encompassing without the use of force. If the people of the Separatist worlds really wanted to leave the Republic, let them, they have the right to choose their own destiny. If a world wanted to rejoin a government, let them. If the worlds of the Empire wanted to go over to the New Republic, or worlds of the GA go over to the New Empire, let them. Alderaan and Naboo were part monarchy, but the Republic never tried to force their preferred ideology on them, because that's how the people wanted it. Some people actually prefer the Imperial vision over the Alliance; if they want that for themselves they shouldn't be denied. They could always then change back if they changed their minds, or move to another planet. It's just forcing something unwanted onto others that is wrong, not always respecting free will or choice, going against the spirit of independence and freedom.


Everyone in the galaxy and the forums is arguing over which ideology is better for Star Wars. Jedi as servants of government or the Force, living force or unifying force, the true nature of the darkside, what makes a true Sith and what makes them evil, the reformed Empire of the Fel dynasty or the Galactic Alliance is a better form of government, was the GA right in trying to stop worlds from leaving, etc.

But is Star Wars really about any specific Ideology or its promotion at all, whether we know it or not, or is it about the right to Self-Determination? For Star Wars: is it more important to live in a galaxy governed by the "right" ideology and submitting to it, or is it more important to live in a galaxy where the choice is yours to decide what you think is right for yourself?

 

For me, I tend to vere on the side of Idealogy for some level. Star Wars is the Democratic Fairy Tale. Essentially, taking the trappings of Knights and Royalty before transplanting the conflict of the American Revolution/World War 2 onto them.

Self-Determination works well enough as it is but the Empire's role as an oppressor is not in that it enslaves other's wills so much as it DESTROYS those people who are against it. It destroys Alderaan, the Jedi Knighthood, and other groups rather than attempts to control the way they think.

1984 is a parable about self-determination (and a vicious Anti-Communist tract).

The Original Trilogy of Star Wars, on the other hand, is an indictment of Fascism and a support for Democracy.

The Prequel Trilogy has its own themes that rampant Corporatism, Government domination by Special Interests, and Apathy by the Public mixed with Fear can lead to the destruction of Democracy.

It's also a nice chiding "No matter how bad a system we have today, you know it could get MUCH worse if we give up our power to an even benevolent seeming dictator."

 

I think Star Wars lends itself big time to Ideology. Luke, Leia, and the Rebellion all faught on the basis of Ideology. At the time we never really knew how 99.9% of the population of the galaxy felt about the Empire. Luke and Leia said they were evil so we KNEW they were evil and figured everyone in the galaxy had to know they were evil.

The Heroes (And villians) of the story are more or less driven by Ideology so it is more important than Self-Determination.

 

I think, in a perfect universe...the "right" ideology would be the one everyone would choose if they weren't being manipulated, or led by greed, or pressured by fear, or trapped in ignorance...etc.

Unfortunately, the universe (and ours) is full of these very obstacles...and since part of the "right" ideology is to release them from those shackles and defend them from their return, one hopes the "ideology" would prove meritorious, even in the midst of their new found "self-determination".

As we can see from things like the War in LOTF, a smooth agreement is not always possible...and in some cases, nearly impossible. But, provided that the "right" ideology hasn't been corrupted (as in the case of LOTF, it surely had been)...it is worth defending, and if self-determination is but a facade (again, LOTF) this disguise must be torn away.

_______

in the end, for the right ideology to be truly "right", it should be the one that truly free people would "self-determine" for themselves...you'd hope that the ideology is not simply a product of countering oppression...but is truly the hopes we all want to have.

_________

Then the question becomes...is it achievable? And that...is a whole different thread.

 

I would say that it's the correct ideology, not self-determination, that matters. I don't even really think that self-determination as you describe it can exist in any area with is part of some state. That kind of libertarian self-determination could exist only in the lawless places of Outer Rim and Unknown Regions.

In the civilized center, it's always a choice between what is right in IU, the Republic, and what is wrong, tyranny. Just like it's a clear choice between light, the Jedi, and dark, the Sith, when it comes to the Force.

The Jedi are not just one group of Force users among several. They happen to be the ones that are correct. In the same way, the Republic is the best government in SW. Both of these have flaws, sometimes major ones, but they are still the belief and government systems that are right IU. When things are good, there is a powerful Jedi Order and a powerful Republic, serving as the center of civilization and creating stability.

I think it's a similar situation to GL's concept of Balance. Balance in this case meaning situations like the one that existed between the New Sith Wars and Palpatine's rise to power.

 

I agree with ideology playing a more important role in Star Wars. In the original post you were able to use real examples from Star Wars to explain ideology, and used 'if' statements in order to explain self-determination. Star Wars seems to be more about the first where people are asserting their ideology onto others. Whether its the Jedi, the Empire, the Sith, etc, the wars part of Star Wars occurs when people are rejecting another's ideology and inserting their own.

 

There's very little in the way of self-determination in the Star Wars universe. Perhaps the only aspect it can be seen in is the Seperatist movement, though that is simply corporatist, plutocratic ideology wrapped in a pretense of self-determination, and that was a farce.

Most of the rest of history of Star Wars is better viewed in terms of ideological conflict: the Core imposing itself on the Rim, the New Order imposing itself on the galaxy, the Rebellion imposing itself on the galaxy, the Jedi Order on the common people, the oligarchs of the Old and New Republic on the citizenry. Secession from any of the super-states, be it the Empire, New Republic, or Galactic Federation is unthinkable in peaceful terms.

It may be just as well, too. The last time the people were allowed to express themselves for or against something, they wholeheartedly threw their support in for the Empire. The only real mass-movement I can recall off the top of my head is COMPNOR, the rest being cliques of oligarchs attempting to gain more power at the expense of more powerful and influential oligarchs.