If Anakin had tried to arrest Palpatine in that hallway could he have defeated him?

When Anakin is with Supreme Chancellor Palpatine in his office's hallway after he reveals himself to be Darth Sidious and has his lightsaber out and holds it to Palpatine's throat do you honestly belive that if Anakin had decided to arrest Palpatine then and there that Anakin could actually manage to defeat him in a duel and subdue Palpatine enough to arrest him?

Because Mace Windu is able to defeat Palpatine by kicking him in the head and knocking him down on his butt, he then holds his lightsaber to Palpatines throat and is about to arrest Palpatine until Palpatine uses force lightning to try to destroy him (and convince Anakin to help him when he knows Mace will counter the attack and turn it against Palpatine) but if Anakin had decided to say something like "No Chancellor, you are under arrest right now, you're coming with me to the Jedi Temple, Now! No questions asked, start walking slowly." then Palpatine would have been pissed off that Anakin was trying to arrest him on the spot and doing the right thing instead of simply leaving and getting other jedi to help him arrest Palpatine, this would have likely forced a duel.

Some people say that Anakin could have defeated Mace Windu,General Grievious and even Darth Maul in legitimate duels, and Anakin certantly handled Cin Drallig in the attack on the Jedi Temple and all of the jedi defenders inside, Anakin also kills Count Dooku rather easily and dominates Obi-Wan Kenobi throughout their entire duel so i would have to say yes that Palpatine would go down rather quickly, Anakin is faster than Windu and Palpatine and much more brutal in combat, he likes to kick and does this to Obi-Wan several times first in the chest and then in the forehead, i doubt that Palpatine could take Anakin's abuse for very long without collapsing like Vader himself does when Luke overwhelms him in ROTJ, not to mention that Anakin would have hate in his heart for Palpatine because of being used for such a long time as well thus making it easier for him to beat Palpatine by opening himself to the dark side of the force against the Sith Lord.

So i belive that Anakin would have easily defeated Palpatine but arresting him would be a huge probelm itself, he couldnt allow himself to reverse the lightning on Palpatine because he needs him alive but if the lightning came out then Palpatine would be trying to kill Anakin and not interested in using him as an apprentice anymore because Anakin had failed his test and was too uncontrollable, add to that the fact that Anakin now knows that he can defeat Palpatine with a lightsaber in combat and Palpatine could never allow himself to have Anakin as an apprentice because he could be challenged at any moment and killed if Anakin/Vader go to ambitious for his own good, things would be a disaster for Palpatine if Anakin had tried to arrest him in that hallway thinking that he was good enough to take him in alone.

 

I don't see Anakin as being capable of defeating Palpatine. If he stayed Light and didn't draw on the Dark Side he would be easily beaten, as he wasn't even on Dooku's level with the Light Side. If he drew on the Dark Side, Palpatine could easily play on his anger and cause him to make an error.

 

I think that you are wrong, Yoda shows in both AOTC and ROTS that anyone skilled enough with a lightsaber and without any fear and that is calm can take on any opponent and easily defeat them, dark side user or not, Anakin shows this against Count Dooku and defeats him, Anakin also does this against Asajj Ventress in the Clone Wars Cartoon, anyone that is without fear and that has a high enough ammount of skill can defeat anyone else using the light side, it is not easy but can be done, Anakin just like Palpatine fears no man (He only fears the death of those he loves) so he has the same advantage that Palpatine has, he also has raw powers and advanced lightsaber combat skills gained in the Clone Wars, he is actually almost as good as Yoda is in ROTS just a little bit under Yoda's level of power and lacking his experience, i'd say it is possible but very hard for Anakin to win but not unthinkable.

 

I agree, as long as Anakin stayed focused on the light side he could have possibly taken out Palpatine. He definitely had a lot of Force power - Lucas said if he hadn't been hurt on Mustafar he would have been twice as powerful as Palpatine. Well he hadn't reached that level yet, but he was likely at least as strong or nearly so by then. Here's the thing: Anakin took out Lord Sidious in ROTJ when he had lost tons of power due to his injuries. He was only 80% as powerful as Sidious in the dark force - but drawing on the light force, Anakin was able to defeat an extremely powerful Sidious who was at that time issuing all of his hatred and anger into a formidable death current on Luke. Those currents were turned on Anakin whose suit should have short circuited and killed him immediately. His connection to the living force, however, was so great, he was able to withstand that and still kill Sidious. So if Anakin in ROTS had been able to use the living force in that way, he should have been able to defeat Sidious independent of how powerful Sidious was. Not to mention he would have been fulfilling the prophecy right then - something else in his favor.

 

Anakin only lost to Obi-Wan because Obi-Wan trained him and had taught Anakin everything that he knows and knew Anakins moves and fighting styles of choice very well from fighting alongside of Anakin for his whole youth and adult life, Anakin also knew Kenobi's moves because of this, Obi-Wan knew the whole high ground trick and expoited it because he had done it against Darth Maul, he knew how impossible it would be for unfocused Vader to get past him and strike him down off guard (which Maul was but not Kenobi) but i belive that if Vader had been more calm and simply gotten off his ride down or upstream then he would have continued his duel with Obi-Wan and eventually killed Obi-Wan in the long run, his arrogance and overconfidence by trying to jump over Kenobi to take him down from behind caused his defeat, but if he hadnt done that then he would have killed Obi-Wan eventually and Kenobi would not have beaten his defenses otherwise.

Against Palpatine they were both on equal ground and Anakin is much stronger than Palpatine is, something which made it easy for Anakin to tire out and beat Dooku in the Novelization as well, if Anakin had used his muscle and brute strength against Palpatine then Palpatine would be in big trouble fairly quickly, add a kick to the chest or head and very fast strikes and attacks by Anakin right after that and Palpatine would never stand a chance, Anakin would have Palpatine struggling to keep up with him and constantly kicking and using his brute strength against Palpatine like he did against Kenobi, Palpatine couldnt take that kind of abuse for very long and Anakin isnt going to tire out first either, i can even picture Anakin blocking Palpatines moves and holding his arms down while he slowly cuts his hands off just as he did with Count Dooku, old men dont do too well against young strong men either.

 

no he wasn't powerful enough, even yoda couldn't defeat palpatine.

 

It would be wrong to say that Anakin would stand no chance, according to Mace Windu Anakin was arguably the most powerful jedi at the time he deafeated Dooku.

Anakin's physical strength, speed and stamina may be to much for Sidious to handle in a straight up fight.

This debate could go on forever...

 

There's no way. Sidious would have toyed with Anakin like a cat with a wounded rat in corner, then finished him off, covered it all up, and moved on to another apprentice.

 

I think one has to take the power of the light force into account. After all, how did Anakin beat Lord Sidiou in ROTJ? He had less power than he did in the hallway in ROTS and skill/experience had nothing to do with it. So it was possible - but fear and/or anger may have caused Anakin to draw upon the dark force (unwittingly) and then all would be lost because in a dark force v. dark force battle, Sidious would win.

 

Anakin doesn't show it against Dooku. Tyranus got him to unleash his anger and hatred. He beat Dooku drawing on the Dark Side. Until then, the Dark Lord was able to defeat both Skywalker and Kenobi. Gillard has also said Anakin starts RotS at an 8(like Obi-Wan) and that it's only when he becomes Darth Vader that he becomes a 9(like Yoda, Mace, and Palpatine.) If Sidious went for the kill he would have killed Anakin in slightly less time than he killed the posse unless Skywalker drew on his anger and hate. If Anakin used his hate Palpatine would simply make him make a mistake akin to what happened on Mustafar.

 

If that is true, how to do you explain the end of ROTJ? Anakin drew on the light force and killed Sidious and Anakin was weaker than he was in ROTS.

 

Because that was walking up behind him and throwing him down a pit not a duel.

 

Good point. If Anakin had issued a formal challenge to a duel to Sidious while he was zapping Luke, things would not have gone well for him.

 

Especially since he only had one hand and his lighsaber had fallen down the energy shaft.

 

All anakin had to do was thrust the saber into Palpys throat and that's all for the sith master..

 

No....if Darth Vader came into contact with the electric current, his suit would immediately short circuit and he would immediately be dust - he certainly would not have been able to keep holding on to the Emperor. The radio dramas are canon too ('there was still a flicker of the Jedi force in the darkness and if the gallaxy was to be saved that force would have to shine bright'). Anakin had to use the living force to even touch Sidious while he was issuing the currents to stay alive.

More than that, Sidious realized Anakin had killed Vader and returned to the light side - he understood he was betrayed the moment he was lifted and he directed the currents at Anakin - even in the movie if you look, they are no longer moving outward as if toward Luke they were directed downward at Anakin (Anakin despite his suit was not a superconductor - Sidious had to direct them at him) - Sidious was not too stupified or focused on Luke not to try to save himself. The radio dramas make that clearer. Anyway, it was not just 'lifting Sidious up and dumping him into the core'. Sidious was an awesome dark Sith, he would not go without a fight, but his greatest weapon (the currents) became useless against the light side of the force.

Han Solo could not have been there and lifted Sidious and tossed him - upon touching him, Han would die; one needed the force, those currents were Dark Force Deadly Bolts of Death - that stop one in his tracks immediately. Anakin was hit with those bolts in AOTC and was instantly knocked away and out of the picture for a good while - they are not simply little shock waves one can easily sustain. And we all recall how they blasted Mace to his death. If you don't block them (as Yoda did, and Mace at first, and as Anakin did here at the end - using the force and/or a lightsaber) then you are toast. As it was, Anakin only had enough power to hold off the dark force currents do what had to be done, he couldn't also protect his suit and its life sustaining functions from damage.

So, with that understanding, I do not see why Anakin in the hallway could not have also accessed the force in all of its greatness and with all of his power back then and kill Palpatine - because he had more power then than he had on Endor.

 

Vader got a lot of lightning, but he didn't get the full brunt of it. The statement that 'there was still a flicker of the Jedi force in the darkness and if the gallaxy was to be saved that force would have to shine bright' could also be metaphorical in that there was a flicker of the Light within the darkness of Vader's soul and if the galaxy was to be saved, he would have to renounce the Dark Side and once again become a Jedi. That doesn't mean he's drawing upon the Force to throw Palpatine. He may be, but it also could easily just be that he's stronger than a normal person due to his mechanical limbs.

 

Which arm does vader use to lift Palpatine? left?
His left arm is not mechanical the hole way from hands to shoulders

 

Nah, George wrote 'Now the white lightning arcs back to strike at Vader' to go with the movie. Plus Sidious is commanding Vader as master in the radio dramas - and Anakin said he was master of Vader but not Anakin Skywalker. He was sending the charges at him instead of Luke because the great dark lord of the Sith wasn't going to merely squirm in Anakin's grasp and not try to save himself. Anakin became a Jedi and called on the force to withstand the currents and to use his handless arm to lift Sidious. One touch to his suit and he would be out, just like Luke was the moment he was mini zapped the first time. Finally - what value has the whole heroic saga if it was "Vader's Limbs" instead of "Anakin's Force power" that defeated the Sith? None to me.

So I still say it is definitive proof that Anakin could have called on the force in ROTS to beat Sidious if he'd remained within the realm of the living force. We can just agree to disagree here if you want.

 

He wouldnt just coldly murder Palpatine like that, not after the whole using the dark side to keep people from dying and saving peoples lives speech, he would have tried to arrest Palpatine by dueling him and maybe cutting his arms off or something akin to that, and Palpatine force snatched his sith lightsaber out of his sleave in a second and attack the jedi possee so if Anakin had actually tried to arrest Palpatine then he would have Palpatines lightsaber swinging at him and would be forced to stop it, which Anakin is certantly capable of doing, i know in ROTS after killing Dooku that Anakin is becoming stronger everyday, after being told that he could save Padme then Anakin would have someone to fight for (Padme's life depends on Anakin arresting Palpatine and pumping him for information) and his determination would allow him to stop Palpatine and arrest him, he would be fighting for the light side and trying to save someones life, i think that this would give him the edge, it worked for Luke when he started defeating Darth Vader with aggression and controlled anger (notice how Luke defeats Vader and refuses to kill him, he only defeats him and wants to stop him and then lets go of his anger, Anakin acheived this against Count Dooku too) this control would allow him to use his anger to defeat Palpatine and not turn yet, i think the main issue that the jedi have with using anger is that it can bring you close to the dark side but Luke uses his anger and controls it and so does Anakin, if you let anger consume you then there is a probelm but both let it go.

And lets stop with the whole mechanical Darth Vader and lightning debate okay? you've made your points that Anakin used the light side to stop Palpatine and his lightning and destroy the sith, but personally i dont see how this relates to what happens in ROTS.

 

I agree with the first paragraph. In response to your second: it is an attempt to show that there is power within the living force to defeat the Sith. It is the only example because Yoda, Luke and Mace couldn't do it and the other Sith that were killed, were killed by Jedi who were dancing with the dark side at the time. Anakin would need to use that in ROTS to defeat Palpatine - even just to arrest him.

 

Yoda in the screenplay defeats Palpatine by knocking his lightsaber out of his hands which forces Palpatine to jump upwards and starts throwing senate pods at Yoda to slow him down and try to prevent Yoda from killing Palpatine until the clones can arrive and kill Yoda, i really dont care what Matthew Stovers book says about Yoda being defeated before he ever started either because the film disproves this and the screenplay does as well two times, George Lucas cut the scene because Palpatine would look like a really lousy Dark Lord of the Sith if he had his lightsaber taken away from him twice both in separate duels as opposed Darth Maul and Count Dooku who were never disarmed at all (just had a damaged weapon in Mauls case, and were literally disarmed while still holding their own weapon in Dooku's case when Anakin takes him down) it makes the master look like a fool for being too confident which Palpatine actually was, and Yoda would have defeated Palpatine if he had been able to jump back upwards which is not possible because of the sheer height of the jump and because Yoda needed to live to fight another day and train another Jedi who could defeat Palpatine and Vader and the clones would arrive and kill him after business was over if he stayed so he left to fight another day.

 

I agree with this. Yoda was on top of that duel IMO, but after what we may term as an "unlucky" fall, where he couldn't hang on to the pod due to the lack of a railing (Yoda was trying to hang on, and thus he didn't want to forfeit the duel) Sideous wasn't omnipotent, but Yoda had destiny against him. I agree with you that Stover's words ring untrue as the movie show something entirely different. Mostly people seem to pick words and sentances from the novels and EU to suit their argument, whereas in most cases they don't fit well with the movies...

 

Anakin could possibly have outduelled the Dark Lord in a straight up lightsaber contest... but Palpatine would have been more than capable of destroying young Skywalker with his knowledge of the Force.

Generally, of the "Big Six of RotS" (Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Mace, Dooku and Palpatine), I consider Palpatine to be the weakest lightsaber combatant but the most powerful Force wielder.

 

True, but his legs were which would make it easier to brace himself and not fall.

I think the value of Anakin defeating the Sith by his sheer will rather than by the Force is that it shows that it doesn't really matter how many midis you have and that all it takes to be a hero is the will to stand up and defeat evil. But I think you're right that we'll have to agree to disagree.