PT If Anakin wanted to could he have killed Palpatine in this moment?

They were definitely prepared for the possibility of a fight if need be, that's why all 4 of them had to go together. And Sidious actually wanted a fight, so in the event that the timing didn't work out (ie Mace and co left before Anakin got a chance to tell them Palpatine is Sidious), Sidious would say something to get the fight started.

That's one of the most controversial topics in the fandom. We have a gigantic thread for that if you're interested: https://boards.theforce.net/threads/who-really-won-the-palpatine-mace-duel.50045011/

 

No he didn’t.

GL was describing a scene. Assuming that you know the context of that scene.

Just like GL said …well here when Grievous kidnapped Palpatine….. No one in their right mind will say Grievous LEGIT has the power to kidnap Palpatine…..GL can only say that assuming we all know that he FAKED his own kidnapping to begin with.

That was during the DVD commentary stuck in time.

No one was asking him straight up …on who really won.

Actually even his executive producer has told him that GL is keeping his mouth shut on that matter.

And if you go by the movie itself….it was an obvious SET UP.

He’s been setting up to frame the Jedi through out the movie. And him losing before Anakin shows up made all his lies come true.

Anakin with Padme’s life on the line still TURNED HIM DOWN but vows to find the truth to all of this.

So Palpatine showed him the truth. Him losing made all his lies come true.

Just ask yourself, What does he gain killing Mace before Anakin shows up????

That same Mace who couldn’t even land a single blow when he had a 4-1 advantage.

Mace overpowering Palpatine is as laughable as that Single Droid overpowering Palpatine on Grievous ship.

Context matters, dialogues matter, And Plot progression matters.

Palpatine did not underestimate Mace. He’s been playing him like everyone else throughout the PT.

It’s not a coincidence that him losing finally made all his goals come true.

Viceroy:
Your PLAN has gone as promised my lord.

 

Can I assume that Sidious was confident that he knew Anakin would show up, even though Mace told him to wait in the Council Chambers.

Obviously I know that Palpatine was involved when Grievous kidnapped him and every other thing he did prior to Episode 3 was to setup the Jedi, with his goal of getting Anakin to become a Sith.

 

No, the poster was asking if the 4 Jedi did not know that he’s the Dark Lord.

So in that scenario they would just be there to ask him to stop the war since Grievous has been killed.

Will Palpatine start something on that scenario?? Well in that alternate reality…something has happened to Anakin not telling them…so it will be a little different on wether he knows Anakin was alright and still coming or for some reason Anakin just plainly left with Padme and decided to leave everything behind.

But most likely whatever happened on that situation…it was manipulated by Palpatine to begin with.

Yes he definitely knew.

Palpatine:
But you’re not sure of their intentions are you??

(And while Anakin was on the Jedi Council Chambers)

Palpatine:
You do know don’t you?? If the Jedi DESTROY ME. Any chance of SAVING HER would be lost.

That’s what made Anakin get off his arse and then disobeyed Mace to make sure The Jedi wouldn’t do what Palpatine just told him.

And then Boom Anakin walks in to a hostile Jedi on top of an unarmed Chancellor.

Check Mate.

“Everything that has transpired has been done so according to my design.”

 

Even if Mace, Kit Fisto, Angen Kolart, and Saesee Tiin had left before Anakin told Mace that Palpatine was the Sith Lord they were looking for, does he still hear Palpatine in his head saying those things while he was in the Council Chambers and rushes over there?

 

Well in that scenario, did Anakin still tell Mace that Palpatine is the Dark Lord while the other 3 just left?? If so…then it would still be the same….Mace would still tell Anakin to go the chambers while knowing Palpatine is the Sith Lord…and even if the other 3 went to Palpatine before Mace….they would surely wait for Mace before talking to the Chancellor. And at that point Mace would have informed them. So yes it would be like what happened in the movie. Palpatine would still contact Anakin via the Force about if the Jedi destroy him then bye bye Padme.

However, if the 4 Jedi came before Anakin telling them the truth…then that means Anakin would not be in the Jedi Council Chambers to begin with but Palpatine would still have to contact him via the Force saying the same thing that the Jedi is about to assassinate him.

At that point, Palpatine would entice the 4 Jedi who doesn’t know he’s the Sith Master… to attack him maybe even saying he is the Sith Lord.

Palpatine would just have to adjust his timing if that happened. But since it’s a movie…the timing is suppose to happen at the right time….it’s movie timing on why Anakin caught the 4 Jedi Masters before they went to Palpatine.

 

In that scenario Mace, Kit Fisto, Angen Kolart, and Saesee Tiin had already left to tell Palpatine that Obi-Wan defeated Grievous and want him to give up his emergency powers.

So, Anakin never got a chance to tell Mace that Palpatine was the Sith Lord they were looking for.

 

I agree that he planned to lose the fight, but I prefer the RotS novelisations perspective where he still ends up losing the fight for real because Mace can delve into Vaapad and if Anakin hadn't shown up he would've at least needed to run away. But it is left a little vague on purpose because it's more interesting if we can discuss whether his carefully laid plans finally hit a potentially unrecoverable position even though it's going exactly how he hoped, just a touch too far beyond his full control. Vaapad let's you take the dark side and anger used against you and channel it right back at the user. Which means Mace was getting stronger the whole fight. Although that also means Mace is on a precipice where he could fall to evil or make rash decisions.

 

I believe there were two battle droids

Yes I think so. Anakin was in a state of extreme emotional turmoil, there was no way he was going to stay put in the Council Chambers the whole time.

I still think it's a bit of an overkill for 4 Jedi Masters to go there just for a talk, though I guess not impossible. They sensed the dark side around him so they might be prepared for the remote possibility that he might be some kind of dark side Force user. Or maybe they thought he might use clones against them. Or maybe the hidden Sith will finally reveal himself or something. I agree they didn't intend to fight, but I just think they were prepared for the possibility of a fight.

We're not talking about a major change in Anakin's actions though, just a slight timing difference. Recall that when Anakin told Mace that Palpatine is Sidious, Mace and co were already walking towards the ship to fly to the Chancellor's office. If Anakin got back like two minutes later, they might have already left.

In that case, Anakin goes back to the Temple and discovers that all the Jedi Masters have left. He would figure that they likely went to Sidious, so he would immediately go back. No need for those voices.

 

Yeah but I think only one of them was programmed with Vapaad. Lol

Yup totally agree.

I’m cool with your preference because we all have our favorite characters here.

I haven’t read the ROTS novel for a while but I remember it showed more on why Palpatine planned to lose. Like him literally calling for help and recording everything before he attacked the Jedi.

Sure it did show how Mace powered up with Vapaad but at the end the fear he thought he sensed was Palpatine’s was really Anakin’s.

And the Junior Novel and Graphic Novel spelled out more of Palpatine’s plan compared to the actual movie.

But Mace winning also undermines the whole purpose of Anakin, Yoda’s VAST struggle against Sidious, and Palpatine’s dialogues and master plan.

If there were scenes on the novel that states
- Yoda and Mace are on the same level
- or Mace as the most powerful Jedi
- or a scene that Mace was once considered to be the Chosen One…
- or that Vapaad was the only ability to destroy the Sith
- or Palpatine wasn’t trying to frame the Jedi to begin with
- or Anakin has joined Palpatine before this so Sidious wouldn’t have a reason to lose to Mace.
- or if Mace confronted Palpatine later on the movie where Palpatine is already the Emperor like Yoda did….and it showed Vapaad overpowering him only to be saved by Clones.

Then yeah I can see how Palpatine can lose to Mace.

But the way the whole story itself was told and plot progression screams of a Set Up.

The “tension” is not about If Palpatine’s plan will work….because he’s the villain …it’s all about the hero Anakin and his choice. It shows how the hero become the villain by thinking he was doing the right thing.

Christopher Lee once said the difference between Dooku and Anakin was Dooku was willing to join Palpatine while Anakin was tricked into joining.

 

I might be misremembering the novel of RotS. But regardless the main reason I prefer Mace actually being in a position to potentially win works so well for me is it's an even bigger weak point in his plan than Anakin, because he has been manipulating Anakin forever and has a much better bead on that. I think Yoda lost because of the dark side crescendo from Order 66 and Anakin turning. Or at least that was my interpretation. Also it was a tie not full loss by Yoda.

I prefer when evil antagonists have at least one major weakness point that almost goes the other way, and for me the fight with Mace is that twofold. Not just that Mace was winning but that he may well have made a different decision on killing Palps and Anakin maybe doesn't turn.

 

After their fight I think Palpatine would also call it a tie. Remember he was told by two Clone Troopers they couldn't find his body. That's when Mas Amedda said he's not dead, and Palpatine said for them to double their searches looking for Yoda.

 

Nah

Power wise Yes they are a tie.

But for who actually won?? Then…Sidious won even though just slightly.

A tie would be if both of them held on to the pod and Clones came in making Yoda flee. OR if both Sidious and Yoda fell at same hard impact. Then yeah that would be a tie as well.

But that’s not what happened. What happened was Yoda fell hard that even Palpatine thought he died and the Clones were looking for a dead body.

Once Yoda fell that hard…he knew he can’t continue which is why he left.

If 2 Even fighters battle and one of them fell that hard in the ground then that fallen guy would have been drastically weaker at that moment compared to the fighter that did not fall.