PT If Maul wasn't stronger than Dooku, why Sidious didn't use Dooku earlier?

I don't think Kaminoans ever said when exactly Sifo-dyas ordered the clone army, just that Kenobi says he was killed ''almost'' 10 years ago, then he says he was under the impression Sifo-dyas was killed before that. When Kenobi met with Prime minister of Kaminoans, prime minister says 200,000 Clone unit is ready, and 1 million Clone unit more on the way, and says that Sifo-dyas's order will ''met on time'', so they were not on time in Episode 2, considering they were just at %15-%20 percentage of the Clone Army that Sifo-dyas requested (assuming they wanted 1,200,000 million unit), they probably reach that goal Clone number in the second or the third year of the war.

Kenobi asks when Sifo-dyas contacted with them, and asks for what was for, prime minister only says it's for Republic, he doesn't say when exactly Sifo-dyas contacted with Kaminoans,

Another clue for when Sifo-dyas contacted with Kaminoans, it's definitely before Episode 1, becase;

1- Kaminoans says Sifo-dyas was a leading member of Jedi council when he met them, and when he ordered the Clone army.
2- There is no Sifo-dyas in the Jedi council during Episode 1.
3- Windu says Sifo-dyas sat on the council ''prior to'' the blockade of Naboo (Episode 1), then they removed Sifo-dyas from the Jedi council, again ''prior to'' the blockade of Naboo, since we don't see Sifo-dyas during the Jedi council meeting in Episode 1.

Sifo-dyas is still being in the Jedi council, Tyranus's deal with Jango Fett, and Kaminoans's deal with Sifo-dyas... All of these happens before Episode 1 / Blockade of Naboo.

Also in TCW, when Chancellor Valorum assigned Sifo-dyas for peace negotiations on Felucia, Felucian people says there was another Jedi with Sifo-Dyas, which means Dooku and Sifo-dyas were working together even before Episode 1. As well as Jango Fett says he never heard of Sifo-dyas, he says Tyranus recruited him, either Sifo-dyas was using the name of Tyranus while recruiting Jango as a Clone template, or Dooku was helping Sifo-dyas and the Sith by using the name of Tyranus even before Episode 1. Then Pykes says that they gave Sifo-dyas's body to Tyranus, after Tyranus paid them to kill Sifo-dyas.

In short, considering also Maul knows that Clones are part of the plan, and also Sifo-dyas was still a Jedi Council member when he met with Kaminoans, and ''Chancellor'' Valorum send Sifo-dyas to his final mission where he died (since Valorum loses his status as a Chancellor in Episode 1), all of these definitely happened before Episode 1, or at least in the same year, but at least months ago before Episode 1, if not years.

And ''Tyranus'' name is still being a thing even before Episode 1 while Sifo-dyas was also working for Sidious, or was being manipulated by ''Tyranus'' and the Sith, also confirms my ideas that Sidious had other Sith apprentice candidates even before Episode 1, otherwise Dooku already having the Tyranus name during Episode 1 and before Episode 1 would make no sense, and Tyranus is a Sith name and he continues with the same name after becoming Sidious's next Sith apprentice.

So not only Sifo-dyas, Dooku too was definitely working for the Sith under the name of ''Tyranus'' even before Episode 1, which means Dooku was also a Sith apprentice candidate during Episode 1 and before.

So this means Maul was chosen by Sidious as the Sith apprentice over Tyranus/Dooku, and Maul was superior to Tyranus in the Sith hierarchy, and Tyranus was Sidious's back up plan if Maul dies, even though Sidious was also using Tyranus in other missions for the Sith, without making him a Sith lord during Episode 1 and before Episode 1.

Another interesting detail is that Maul didn't know anything about Dooku (or Tyranus), otherwise he wouldn't be disappointed to see Dooku in Son of Dathomir comic book, Maul says he expected more from his successor. And before that in TCW Season 5 Episode 14, Maul says Dooku is a ''Sith pretender''.

While Dooku in TCW Season 3, tells Savage that Maul is a ''Great'' Sith Lord, and Savage's powers will rival him soon enough, which means that while Maul didn't know about Dooku/Tyranus, Dooku/Tyranus knew about Maul, and says that Maul is a Great Sith lord, which is only natural considering he was a back up for Maul at the time.

I don't think that should be a problem, there are already many Jedi who has fallen to the dark side in the Canon and in the Legends, without even the involment of Sidious,

In canon;
- Pong Krell
- Barriss Offee
- Quinlan Vos (for a while under the name of Admiral Enigma)

Sidious wasn't even involved in these Jedi, yet they turn to the dark side, with Sidious involving directly, I assume it would be even easier to turn Jedi to the dark side.

Sidious involved in the Inquisitors, so I didn't count them, but they are former Jedi as well. They turn to the dark side in the Canon. There are more Jedi who turned to the dark side, not only Dooku, Anakin and Sifo-dyas (if we assume he did in Lucas's version).

 

Jedi Masters turning is supposed to be a bit rarer than Jedi Knights turning. "War corrupts" so to speak - but there wasn't a war when, in Lucas's concept, Sifo-Dyas became Palpatine's Sith apprentice, despite being a Member of the High Council.

Though I suppose their removing him from the Council for being "radical" is an indication that they suspected something was up, even if they didn't know what.

 

For Kenobi to deduce that Sifo-Dyas's death happened before the ordering of the clones, he must have had the exact date of both. I think it's implied that the Kaminoans told Kenobi more details off-screen during the tour.

Where was this one from?

 

TCW Season 6 Episode Lost One

I doubt about that, in TCW Episode Lost One they also had no clue when Sifo-dyas was killed, they didn't even know what happened to his body or his lightsaber, Plo Koon finds Sifo-dyas's lightsaber at the beginning of that episode, only then they started to investigate after finding that clue.

 

Obi-Wan says;

The Kamino people never mention the senate in the scenes we see so clearly Obi-Wan is referring to an off-screen conversation. Here he was told when the order was placed and that "Sifo-Dyas" was acting on behalf of the senate.
So Obi-Wan knows when the army was ordered and that was less than ten years ago. So after TPM.

Do not think so. IF Sifo-Dyas was the one who ordered the army and he was a Sith at the time. IF he had been removed from the council, he could just lie about that. Sith Lords lie, that is established.
The Kamino people had no idea that the senate was not behind this army so "Sifo-Dyas" was lying about that. They had no idea that he was dead so clearly they don't keep up to date about Jedi matters.
So Sifo-Dyas could say he was on the council even if he was not. The Kamino people clearly never contacted the JC about this so that lie would not be detected.

But if Sifo-Dyas was the one who placed the order and he was a Sith and all that. Why did he not hire Jango? It would make the clone army seem more legit if Jango could say when questioned that he was hired by Sifo-Dyas. So Sifo-Dyas ordered the army and hired the template.
Instead Jango has never heard of Sifo-Dyas and that makes the army fishy, not that it wasn't massively fishy already. The Sith don't want the jedi to ask too many questions about the clones, they don't want them to smell a rat. Jango giving Dooku's Sith name is a risk because if the Jedi ever learn that Dooku is Tyrannus then they have ample reason to think that the clone army is suspect. Again, it already is very suspect.

And again, why would Palpatine rush the clone army when he is not chancellor yet?
He has no reason to set the clone army in motion until after he is chancellor. Part one done, now start part two. Why would a clever man like Palpatine start part two when part one was not done yet?

The Sith have clearly mastered patience so why the rush?

Also, if Sidious has Sifo-Dyas as his Sith apprentice, trains Maul as a potential Sith and uses Dooku as a Dark side Force user. Then what point is there to the rule two?
Sidious has basically three dark side Force users working for him and it only does not conflict with this rule because "technically" only Sifo-Dyas is a Sith because only he has that title, the other two don't count.

So Sidious could have 49 dark side Force users working for him and it would not cause any issues as long as just one of them had the Sith title?

But the PT is making very clear statements about Anakin's problems and how they led him down a dark path. He was much older when taken in by the Jedi. He had a strong attachment to his mother and so on.
All reasons to explain why he fell.
If a bunch of other Jedi fell without all that baggage then what was the point of establishing it?

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Why would Anakin's age be an issue? Dooku probably became a Jedi at a much younger age. That didn't prevent him from becoming a Sith Lord.

 

I haven't watched TCW, but if we want to take that into account, I'm guessing the Jedi assumed Sifo-Dyas must have died some time before Plo Koon finds his lightsaber. And for Obi-Wan to make that statement of his (the one about Sifo-Dyas being killed before then), the finding of the lightsaber must have happened before the ordering of the army.

Was the Jedi's assumption correct? Did Sifo-Dyas
1) lose his lightsaber first, then ordered the clone army, and then died,
or
2) die before Plo Koon found his lightsaber?

If it's 1) then it's the Jedi just got his possible death date range wrong based on a wrong assumption that lost lightsaber = death. If it's 2), then it looks like Sifo-Dyas hasn't contributed anything to the Sith plot.

 

Have you seen TPM?
In that Anakin being too old, at age nine, is made into a very big issue.
In the PT, Jedi are to be taken in very young, maybe 1-2 years old. If anyone spends too much time with their parents/family then they will develop those pesky "attachments" and can not become Jedi.
So Dooku would likely have been taken in very young as that was the norm. Anakin was taken in when he was much older and that was a big worry for the Jedi.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

You assume that Episode 1 and Episode 2 has exactly 10 years between, we don't know the exact date and the month, even if we assume that Kenobi was informed off-screen, and he isn't assuming it happened 10 years just because that was when Sifo-dyas died, then it's also possible that it could be months before Episode 1.

Lets say Episode 1 happened in year 1010 April - and Episode 2 happens in year 1020 January, do you expect him to say 9 years 9 months ago? Or if he says ''almost'' is that mean it's just close to that number more or less?

I think it's possible even if we assume that Obi-Wan was informed that they told him it was 10 years ago, he still says ''almost'', it's still vague information and it can be manipulated. How did they inform him exactly? They are taking an incredibly big order like a Clone army, and they aren't even telling him the exact date when it happened and Obi-Wan is still saying ''almost'' 10 years ago? That looks like giving an incomplete information. I doubt they shared their databanks, and told Obi-Wan the exact date when it happened, otherwise Obi-Wan would tell the Jedi Council the exact date so they could do a better investigation about all of these, yet Obi-Wan still says ''almost'', to me, that looks like just Obi-Wan assuming, not being officially informed by Kaminoans about the exact date.

And again, we are just assuming about Sifo-dyas lying to the Kaminoans, but Kaminoans could check that easily. I believe everyone can learn who are the leading members of the Jedi council in the galaxy, it shouldn't be a classified information. You assume that Sifo-dyas lied to Kaminoans that he is still in the council, and I assume that Kaminoans could easily check that and control if Sifo-dyas is still in the Jedi council or not at that point, it shouldn't be that hard. Otherwise, how can they know and how can they secure their payment?

If the republic doesn't pay them they would be in trouble, they would surely need some kind of guarantee, I don't believe they will just accept a large order such as a Clone army, from a person that they didn't even check who he is, and if he is really in the Jedi council or not. I believe even if we assume that Sifo-dyas could lie to Kaminoans, Kaminoans could easily control and check that if Sifo-dyas is still in the Jedi council or not.

So I believe it's obvious that arrangement between Sifo-dyas and Kaminoans happened before Episode 1, when Sifo-dyas was still in the council, and we also know that Sifo-dyas died when Chancellor Valorum send him to a mission, that can't be in Episode 1 since Valorum loses his status as a Chancellor in Episode 1 and Palpatine becomes the Chancellor.

So chronologically;
- Sifo-dyas makes the arrangement with Kaminoans about the Clone army while still being in the Jedi Council before Episode 1
- Chancellor Valorum sends Sifo-dyas to his final mission on Felucia before Episode 1.
- At some point between all of these, Sifo-dyas was removed from the Jedi Council before Episode 1.
- Sifo-dyas dies in his final mission while traveling between Felucia and Oba-Diah, when Valorum was still the Chancellor, not Palpatine, again before Episode 1.
- Palpatine becomes the Chancellor in Episode 1.

Jango Fett clearly says he never heard of Sifo-dyas and he says a guy named Tyranus hired him to be the Clone template in Episode 2. Not only Sifo-dyas was working for Sidious before Episode 1, Dooku too under the name of Tyranus was already working for Sidious before Episode 1.

Well, according to Ahsoka now, Anakin is the best of them, and she believes if Anakin is vulnerable to dark side then everyone is, that's what she says as a Jedi when she rejected to train Grogu.

Lucas already told us a Jedi master like Dooku too can fall to the dark side, that's also canon. What problems Dooku had? It was never mentioned, it's just that he turn to the dark side and that's it. Anakin was definitely not the special one due to there is already Dooku in the canon as well as other Jedi masters like Pong Krell and Quinlan Vos turned to the dark side, and some of the Inqusitors were Jedi masters too, such as Grand Inquisitor and Tenth Brother.

 

In Lucas's version, Dooku did not fully become a Sith until after Qui-Gon's death. Did Disney/Lucasfilm change the Canon? If so . . . why?

 

I thinks it Lucas who’s timeline has Dooku working for the Sith prior to TPM

 

Yup - early Legends, in Labyrinth of Evil and Darth Plagueis, implied strongly that Qui-Gon's death was the straw that broke the camel's back, and the trigger for him leaving the Order.


But the newcanon (following some of Lucas's ideas) changed this, with TCW dropping a hint that Dooku's "turn to the Dark Side" was very slightly earlier (in the TCW episode The Lost One, and it showing Dooku organizing the murder of Sifo-Dyas late in the Valorum administration.) Later newcanon books provided a date for Dooku's leaving of the Jedi Order that was long before TPM (nearly 10 years before, in fact) as well as painting Sifo-Dyas as a genuine Well Intentioned Extremist, with the last recorded words from him before his death, being provided in the book Force Collector.

However according to Lucas, Sifo-Dyas was a Sith Lord when he died, rather than a "well-intentioned extremist Jedi".

 

But Dooku had become part of the Jedi when he was a toddler and eventually became a Sith Lord. Luke was 19 when he initially began his training as a Jedi and never became a Sith. What was the point of claiming that Anakin was too old to become a Jedi at 9 years?

If Qui-Gon's death was the straw that broke the camel's back, then doesn't that mean Dooku finally became a Sith after the events of TPM?

 

In pre TCW Legends, yes.

In "Lucas's headcanon" (and in the Disneyverse) he was a "Dark-Side following ex-Jedi, willing to murder the creator of the clone army on the orders of a Sith Lord, to further that Sith Lord's plans" before Qui-Gon died. However, he didn't actually get the promotion to "Sith Lord" until Maul's apparent death in TPM. Sidious, believing Maul dead, promoted Dooku to replace Maul.

 

Well, during The Phantom Menace the Jedi believe Dooku is a very moral person.

And the point is that is the Jedi rule. There are many other reasons the Jedi train young children, they are more open to being introduced to the Force because they don’t have any preconceptions, and they can be ideologically molded in a controlled environment.

 

They - "Lucas's headcanon" and Disney - should have never changed anything. This is a mess.

 

Whether or not Lucas knew what the EU had done, Lucas didn't feel bound by the EU's decisions - to him, it was an "alternate universe" and anything he said regarding Star Wars, dictated how events in the "primary Star Wars universe" transpired.

 

To my knowledge, the SW films do not have an established date system or calendar. So Obi-Wan can not say, "The order was placed on dec 9th, 1999 but Sifo-Dyas was killed oct 11th, 1999."
So we just get stuff about "almost ten years ago". And almost means "very near but less than". A person that is almost six feet tall is not over six feet. A person that has worked for almost ten hours has not worked more than ten hours. Had Obi-Wan said ".. about ten years ago" then an argument could be made for it being more. But based on what he says, the clone army was ordered less than ten years ago.

Again the SW films do not have an established date system. In-universe they would almost certainly have such a thing but that isn't known to the audience. So had Obi-Wan said. "The clone army was ordered on the 4th of Kloog in the year 20134 but Sifo-Dyas was killed the 9th of Haarg in the same year." That would just be confusing.
The Kamino people could easily tell him the exact date when "Sifo-Dyas" came to them and placed the order for the clone army and that he was acting on behalf of the senate.
So Obi-Wan knows that date and he knows or at least strongly think that this date was after Sifo-Dyas death. So that is what he reports to Mace and Yoda. They could have asked for the exact dates but don't. And if he was unsure, he could have asked them to confirm when Sifo-Dyas was killed, but again no.
Also, Obi-Wan was just told by Yoda to NOT assume anything. So why would he assume when it comes to the date of the order?

"They say", meaning the Kamino people. So they told him when the order was placed, who placed it and that it was at the request of the senate.

The Kamino could also easily contact the Senate and verify the order of the clones but they don't.
The Kamino people had no idea that Sifo-Dyas was dead, the death of a Jedi would likely not be classified but they had no clue. They also don't seem to be aware that the senate is debating the issue of creating an army while they are building an army for that senate.
An early version of the script had "Sido-Dyas" a fake Jedi and the Kamino people had no clue that no such Jedi existed. So the Kamino could have contacted both the senate and the JC but did neither.
That would be both easy and logical but they can not because then the plot does not work.

As for payment, good question, this would be VERY expensive. Does Doouk and/or Palpatine have the money themselves to pay for this? Sifo-Dyas, assuming he was involved, did not as he was part of the Jedi at the time. If not, where did the money come from? This is why I think it makes better sense for Palpatine to set this in motion AFTER he was chancellor. Because now he can divert funds from the republic to pay for this. Also, in case the Kamino contacts the senate for confirmation, he has a better chance of controlling that and making sure it does not get out.

But again, they don't, nor do they check with the senate. Because the plot would unravel if they did.

The timeline is wonky because this plot point has been altered again and again.
First it was "Sido-Dyas" a fake Jedi, then Sifo-Dyas a real but dead Jedi that was apparently dead when the order was placed. So whoever placed the order just used his name. Then Sifo-Dyas might have been involved but he was manipulated into this and he was still a Jedi. Then Sifo-Dyas was apparently a Sith.

And again, why would Palpatine set the clone army in motion BEFORE he is chancellor?
If that fails, he would have given an army to the Republic.

Unless the clone army was ordered AFTER TPM; which the dialogue in the film suggest.
Then Dooku turned and joined Sidious after TPM, he found and hired Jango and he was the one who deleted the Kamino file before leaving the Jedi order.

Lucas had, as far as I know, not thought up Dooku when writing TPM. So in that film we get a very heavy message that Anakin is troubled, that his age, his attachment to his mother and all that.
But having Jedi masters left and right turn who did not have any of that means that Lucas could not have bothered. He could have Anakin join with no issues and then just turn.

The PT Jedi had a rule that only someone very young could be taken in to be a Jedi. How old is never said but a 2-3 years or younger seems to be the norm. The reason seems to be fear of attachments, that the person has become too close to their parents/family and is thus unsuitable to become a Jedi.
With Luke, first I doubt Lucas had come up with this "no-attachment" thing yet so he was about 19/20 and no problem. Would ANH have worked with a nine year old Luke? Unlikely.
Second, Yoda and Obi-Wan knows they failed with Anakin and it is possible that they wait for Luke to become older and hopefully have grown out of his attachments before they train him.
Third, it is possible that they think that if they start to train Luke and/or Leia when they are say 3-4 years old then the Sith would sense it and come after them. And at that age, neither Luke nor Leia could fight.
So they have to wait.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

You are missing the part where Kenobi says; ''I was under the impression he (Sifo-Dyas) was killed before that.'' , this is from Episode 2 as well.

If Sifo-dyas was killed even before 10 years, how could he give the order of the Clone Army almost 10 years before? At the time of Episode 1 and before, the Jedi still don't know what Sifo-dyas was doing, if he was alive or not.

So why Kenobi says this? First he says ''almost'' (still not sure) 10 years ago, then he says he was under the impression it was before that in the same movie.

Probably this happened;
- Sifo-dyas was killed before Episode 1, but the Jedi weren't sure as there was no evidence for Sifo-dyas's death, they found no body or his lightsaber, thus at some point close to Episode 1 or shortly after Episode 1, they assumed that Sifo-dyas was killed, still don't know when and how. They still don't know when exactly because there was no body or the lightsaber, they (Plo Koon) find Sifo-dyas's lightsaber after Episode 2, years later in the Clone Wars Episode Lost One.

It aligns with what TCW tells us; when Valorum was still the Chancellor, (which means its definitely before Episode 1), Chancellor Valorum sends Sifo-Dyas to his final mission where Sifo-dyas dies while traveling between Felucia and Oba-Diah. Killed by Pykes, who were paid by Tyranus, and then Pykes give Sifo-dyas's body to Tyranus, they didn't tell anything about Silman but they also forgot to take Sifo-dyas's lightsaber as Plo Koon finds it years later, after Episode 2.

So Sifo-dyas doesn't survive after Episode 1.

So why Kaminoans, said ''almost'' ten years ago Sifo-dyas ordered the Clone Army? Because Dooku, under the name of Tyranus (a Sith name) pretended to be Sifo-dyas after Sifo-dyas died before Episode 1, and ordered the Clone Army in place of Sifo-dyas, before, during or after Episode 1.

Sifo-dyas probably started to the negotiations with Kaminoans before Episode 1, but still either he didn't find the funds or the Clone template so he was still working on it, then Tyranus finds Jango Fett and finds the funds, or they both find it, so Kaminoans didn't suspect anything about Sifo-dyas later when Tyranus pretends to be Sifo-dyas.

In TCW Lost One Episode as well, Chancellor Valorum's personal attache Silman tells Obi-Wan that they were betrayed by someone who wanted to be Sifo-dyas, that's exactly Tyranus, this aligns with what happened before Episode 1 and during Episode 1 and after.

How Tyranus knew everything about all of these that what Sifo-dyas does with Kaminoans? In TCW episode Lost One, in Sifo-dyas's last mission, Felucians says there was another Jedi with him, this is again before Episode 1 since Chancellor Valorum sends Sifo-dyas to Felucia, but Valorum also didn't know anything about the other Jedi. Tyranus either secretly manipulating Sifo-dyas and pretends to be helping him, or they were working together for the Sith before Episode 1.

And again, Dooku tells Kenobi in that TCW episode that Sifo-dyas saw the future and he claims that Sifo-dyas helped him because of that. So it's possible from all of these that Sifo-dyas was indeed working for the Sith, just like Dooku before Episode 1.

Another thing to confirm this, another TCW episode, Season 4 Episode Shadow Warrior,

Anakin: ''Why bring the war to Naboo?''
Dooku: ''How quickly you forget. After all the war started here years ago.''
Anakin: ''You were a part of that first battle?''
Dooku: ''The Sith control everything. You just don't know it.''
--- TCW Season 4 Episode 4

Not sure why what Lucas thought or not at that time is important for us right now, he told us Sifo-dyas was a Sith apprentice before Maul, and current canon has Dooku under the name of Tyranus was working for the Sith before Episode 1, and even secretly joined Sifo-dyas's mission to Felucia and Oba-diah, arranging Sifo-dyas's death while Valorum was still the Chancellor, which means before Episode 1.

We see Anakin's story, to understand why he turns to the dark side, it doesn't necessarily mean everyone should be like Anakin, unlike Anakin, they can simply turn. Jedi council not wanting to train Anakin was only natural when even other Jedi with no problems can still turn to the dark side due to their political views, and due to their own greed, Anakin was a bigger danger, and same Jedi Yoda and Kenobi never thought Vader would turn to the light side and betray Sidious so they were wrong about many things anyway. The story tells us that Anakin had many excuses to turn to the dark side, it was even harder for him to resist the dark side in comparison with other Jedi who simply turn to the dark side due to their political views. It's even better for the story as Lucas wouldn't want to make Anakin look too evil, so people might say; ''look there are other Jedi with no issues can even turn to the dark side, so don't blame Anakin too much''.

 

Current canon also has a "well-intentioned extremist" style to Sifo-Dyas's last words, rather than a "Sith" style:

Force Collector novel:

"This is Master Sifo-Dyas, en-route to the desert moon that orbits Oba Diah. I'm with ... with - Silman, flying emergency survival capsule number 775519, and our long-range transmitter has been knocked out. We're under attack by the Pykes, and I'm preparing to jettison this project in hopes that it will be found, and-"

[static]

"And the truth is, we won't make it out of this alive. If that's the case, so be it. But there are things that mustn't be lost. This is what it's come to - and I want ... | want everyone to understand that I've done my best. Some may disagree with my methods, but these are desperate times and someone, somewhere should know: as you are aware, I have seen a vision of the future that I feel warrants an army. You've disagreed with me, but I felt I had no choice. Therefore I have ordered one: a clone army from the Kaminoans. Something must be done, and I have made that decision. It may haunt me, and-"

[static]

"or then again, maybe I won't have to live with that decision very long at all."

"Hurry - we can't take another hit like that!"

"Come find me!"

 

My point was all of these happens before Episode 1, so Dooku under the name of Tyranus was already working for the Sith before Episode 1 not that Sifo-dyas is a Sith apprentice in the new canon. I know current canon didn't build Sifo-dyas as a Sith in the canon, -yet-, perhaps they will, because in my opinion that would create a much more interesting character and it would create a lot of different dynamics for the storyline, if they want to create a story for that part of the timeline. So we will see.

 

Obi-Wan first says that Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago and later, then talking to Mace and Yoda he says;

The "Before that" could refer to the date the army was ordered. If the army was ordered nine years and seven months ago and Sifo-Dyas was killed nine years and ten months ago. Both dates are "almost ten years ago" but Sifo-Dyas was killed before the army was ordered.

Also because Obi-Wan says "almost" does not have to mean he is unsure. A person knows how long they have worked at their current job but if asked says "About ten years" instead of "Nine years, 11 months, 2 weeks and 3 days." because most often that level of detail is not needed.

We don't know the Kamino people said "almost" to Obi-Wan, they could more likely have told him the date "Sifo-Dyas" placed the order. But again, the SW films has no established date system so Obi-Wan has to say "almost".
And that Dooku posed as Sifo-Dyas is the most likely explanation based on what the film says.
And that makes having Sifo-Dyas be a Sith rather pointless. Instead he is a Jedi that the Sith kill and then use his name when ordering the army. What purpose is served by having him be a sith?

If Sifo-Dyas met the Kamino people in person, how could Dooku pretend to be him?
Would the Kamino not notice that they are dealing with two different people?

And if Sifo-Dyas was dead when Dooku ordered the army, that shows that the Kamino did not check anything. Had they contacted the Jedi, they would learn that Sifo-Dyas was dead or at least missing.

And again, why have Sifo-Dyas involved at all? Much simpler to have him be nothing more than a Jedi that the Sith kill in order to use his name. In the films, we know next to nothing about Sifo-Dyas and to have him be involved with the clone army but having no idea as to why is a little weak. Have it just be Dooku, much simpler.

Wait, Dooku was working for the Sith with the Tyrannus name before ep I? Tyrannus is his Sith name so would that not mean that he was a Sith then? Before TPM?

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Presumably in this context, Tyranus was his codename, he was an "agent of the Sith" without being an actual "Sith Lord (Apprentice to Senior Sith Lord)", then after Maul's death , when he got promoted to "Sith Lord (Apprentice)" Sidious added the "Darth" to Dooku's codename, changing him from "Tyranus" to "Darth Tyranus".

 

Yes that's what I was trying to explain it to you while you were trying to refuse it and make another scenario where all starts after episode 1 which makes no sense for the story. And also you are still dodging the point where I said Valorum sends Sifo-dyas to his final mission, where Sifo-dyas dies, this exactly happens before Episode 1 because Valorum is not the Chancellor during Episode 1, so Valorum can't send Sifo-dyas to his final mission during Episode 1 and after.

Jango said he was hired by the guy named Tyranus in Episode 2 not by Sifo-dyas. Tyranus already involved heavily in Sifo-dyas's business with Kaminoans based on this information not only he knows the Clone army project he even finds the suitable Clone template for the clone army before Sifo-dyas does.

TCW director too said this that Dooku was an apprentice to Sidious at the same time Maul was apprentice to Sidious,

Chee: ''We find out who Sifo-Dyas is. Did George know since Episode II what Sifo-Dyas was?''

Dave Filoni: ''I can give you my opinion. I don't know. As a storyteller myself, I can tell you [that] you evolve the story so much as you evolve other parts of the story. I think it's something [Lucas] wanted to lock down more before he left. Which is why we have this arc. And one interesting thing that you have to accept, which I'd not really considered watching the movies, is that Sidious has both Dooku and Maul as padawan learners at the same time. Because Dooku, in order to put the things in motion that he does, has to be doing them around the time of The Phantom Menace. So he's operatively working, somewhat knowingly for Sidious, under corruption, while Maul is still there.''
--- Source: Sifo-Dyas and the Sith - The Lost Missions Q&A | Star Wars: The Clone Wars

And not only they told us this in The Clone Wars Season 6 Episode 10, they also give the same information to us in The Clone Wars Season 4 where Lucas was still directing the Clone Wars;

Anakin: ''Why bring the war to Naboo?''
Dooku: ''How quickly you forget. After all the war started here years ago.''
Anakin: ''You were a part of that first battle?''
Dooku: ''The Sith control everything. You just don't know it.''
--- Source: TCW Season 4 Episode 04 Shadow Warrior


But Dooku/Tyranus wasn't promoted to Sith lord because Maul was ahead of him. So Sidious chose Maul instead of choosing Dooku before Episode 1.