If there are only 2 sith at a time; "No more, no less", where does Asajj Ventress fit in?

She was alive the same time Dooku and Sidious were.

 

She was a pawn, no future plans other than luring Anakin in. at least that's my 2 cents on it.

 

she was just a dark jedi, one of the many

 

She wasn't a Sith yet. Dooku (like all Sith apprentices) was looking for his own apprentice to help him overthrow Sidious. That's why he went to that alien arena (in the Clone Wars series) and was looking for someone with talent.

Asajj failed her mission when she was presumably killed by Anakin. Ironically, this all played into Sidious' plan since it contributed to the future seduction of Anakin to the Dark Side.

So Dooku went in search of another potential apprentice - and found Grievous.

 

Yeah. Dooku was just using her as pawn. I'm sure after the jedi were wiped out, he would have killed her.

 

wouldn't dooku have kept his eye on several possible apprentices? even if ventress hadn't died, he wouldn't have wanted her around much longer. is it possible he knew about grievous for a while?

 

I think grievous was around since the battle of Geonosis.

 

Dooku was indeed - he even solicited Anakin at one point for help in overthrowing Sideous. Like in any Sith relationship, both the master and apprentice are always looking for more power. This usually translates to seeking ways to replace each other in an attempt to overthrow. Outside of his own ambitions, Dooku must have known that Sideous had his eye on Anakin Skywalker, so he was looking for his own way to move up in the Sith order before he was taken out. It had very little to do with the war effort since the Sith were manipulating that.

Additionally, don't make the mistake of thinking dark Jedi ("Sith acolytes") are the same thing as Sith Lords. They don't have nearly as much power or mastery of the dark side. They usually come down to be nothing more than Jedi who have turned, rather than guys like Palpatine who avidly study the Sith heritage in order to increase their ability to use the dark side. (Note that this doesn't mean that a Jedi can't be a Sith, as obviously displayed by Vader. Merely that a Sith goes beyond just turning to the dark side.)

Dooku was indeed - he even solicited Anakin at one point for help in overthrowing Sideous. Like in any Sith relationship, both the master and apprentice are always looking for more power. This usually translates to seeking ways to replace each other in an attempt to overthrow. Outside of his own ambitions, Dooku must have known that Sideous had his eye on Anakin Skywalker, so he was looking for his own way to move up in the Sith order before he was taken out. It had very little to do with the war effort since the Sith were manipulating that.

Additionally, don't make the mistake of thinking dark Jedi ("Sith acolytes") are the same thing as Sith Lords. They don't have nearly as much power or mastery of the dark side. They usually come down to be nothing more than Jedi who have turned, rather than guys like Palpatine who avidly study the Sith heritage in order to increase their ability to use the dark side. (Note that this doesn't mean that a Jedi can't be a Sith, as obviously displayed by Vader. Merely that a Sith goes beyond just turning to the dark side.)

It's possible Grevious may have been under construction by the battle of Geonosis, but it wasn't until the battle seen in episode 20 of the Clone Wars cartoons that Grevious gets introduced, which is roundabout 2 years into the war. Following that, he managed to almost completely turn the tide of the fighting against the Jedi. We see powerful, prototype Separatists warrior appearing earlier on that are part organic and part cybernetic, so I generally tend to think Grevious' construction really didn't get under way until a short time after Geonosis.

(Anyone who's more familiar with the PT EU, feel free to blast this out of the water if I'm wrong.)

 

If you read Dark Rendezvous, Ventress asks Dooku to make her his apprentice, but he refuses, since he knows that the apprentice would eventually get fed up with the master and yeah...

 

Dark Jedi.

 

Assaj (sp. on purpose) Ventress is a Sith Poseur, no more, no less.

The only thing I want to know is: where can I see the most graphic depiction of her death?

BTW, is she dead, yet? She should be... she killed R4.

 

This is an EU discussion.

 

^Thank you Ric Olie.

But anyway yeah, like it's been discussed, Asajj isn't a full on Sith, just an acolyte kept around for missions and such, though she is possibly being groomed for a future role as a Sith. This kinda thing continues into the CT era, with Vader and Palptine having Jerec, Mara, Lumiya, Hethrir, etc.

 

You know this is a time when that no spoiler rule is screwing up the discussion 'cause with a little bit of black-on-black text I could explain to you why she's there. But I can't so go with they don't care...

 

My thoughts exactly Binks. But it is a known fact now that Grivious was rebuilt and financed by San Hill, leader of the Intergalactic Banking Clan, before Geonosis. They found out later that Grivious had been underground and fled. Oh and abck to the subject. As serenity said. There is a difference between Dark Jedi and Sith. A Sith is someone who gives himself over to the dark side and studies Sith lore, and of course has a master. Sith are also usually more powerful than your average Jedi. A Dark Jedi is someone is is a jedi that decided to go dark. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Yes, General Grievous was underground in the catacombs of Geonosis while the huge battle was taking place in the arena.

 

You get lost, Strilo?

 

Hey guys, you may not have realised this, but this thread was moved from the PT forum...

 

They can do that?

 

They've been able to do that for about a month...

 

I have a question/contemplation. Suppose there were already two Sith in one part of the galaxy, but in another part there was someone who had found knowledge of the Sith and was learning from it and training an apprentice to use it. Would they be considered Sith or Dark Jedi? Or perhaps some kind of rogue faction that didn't follow the code of either?

Sorry if this seems like an odd question. I have just begun to comprehend the difference between Sith and Dark Jedi.

 

If you learn the ways of the Sith, it does not make you a Sith. Asajj knows the ways of the Sith, but is not a Sith

This is similar to the Mara Jade debate. She was around the same time as Vader & the Emperor, but she was not a Sith.

Desaan in the game Jedi Academy is a good example. He had many Sith powers such as lightning & choke etc, and he had an apprentice who he was teaching his ways. But Desaan was not a Sith, and neither was his apprentice Tavion or her apprentice.

 

Sith Wannabe, basically.

 

OK, don't want to sound like a pain, but Dooku didn't like greivous. He thought of him as a necessary evil. Also, Mara Jade wasn't even on the Darkside, it was stated in the Trawn trilogy or duelogy.

 

Not entirely true, it was suggested in-universe by Luke that she might not of actually been serving the dark side during her service to the Empire, as her actions and intent were derived from a wish to serve the galaxy and she knew not of the evil that she served or indeed she perpetrated by way of her actions. But this amounts to little more than Luke's personal opinion, borne of his desire to discover why he has carried the taint of the dark side (forever will it dominate your destiny etc) because of his servitude to the Emperor Reborn, where people such as Mara who also served the Emperor seem to carry no such taint (In his opinion).

Although, even the most Mara-biased fan would be forced to admit that her actions in EU are at the best of times, outside the norm for Jedi, in many ways that go beyond 'ruthless'. The objective observer would have to admit that the question of which side of the Force Mara was using as the Emperor's Hand, is at best, still a matter of contention.

That being said, she certainly wasn't a Sith, as no material suggests she spent time studying Sith Lore nor was she instructed in the higher order teachings of the Sith by Palpatine. It seems her training was limited to rather generic Force talents to enhance her ability to execute efficently the missions Palpatine set out for her.

We should also keep in mind that the "Always two, no more, no less" aspect of the Sith is only a rule. It could, should one believe the time to be right, be broken. Much like the "no attachments" rule of the Jedi that Anakin Skywalker so spectacularly broke, it is simply a tradition upheld within the Sith order to enhance the efficent running of the Order. It is not some ingrained truth of the universe that one cannot be a Sith when another two already exist.