IGN Interview with Gary Kurtz

>>That same sensibility and pragmatism that led him to allow ESB to run wildly over budget and off-schedule?<<

Doesn't matter to me. The result was still by and large the most favorable of all the Star Wars movies.

To do likewise for "The Dark Crystal"? Jim Henson and Frank Oz disliked working with him immensely.<<

Again, another great movie that he was a part of. But of course that's just coincedence right Well, Marlon Brando hates working with Frank Oz. Ewan McGreggor hates working with blue screen. I mean so what?

>> the cast, the FX crew, Irvin Kershner, and Lawrence Kasdan all deserve much more.<<

I agree. Those guys and gals all deserve a lot more credit for their input then they have been given. What people fail the realize is that, while Lucas deserves most of the credit for what made the CT great, there was a checks and ballances in place on the creative end. It was not just Lucas as the Lucasfilm propaganda machine would have us believe. And one of those integral checks was Kurtz.

 

Doesn't matter to me. The result was still by and large the most favorable of all the Star Wars movies.

Uh...the point here is what you term Kurtz's sensibility and pragmatism, neither of which he has displayed on more than one occasion.

So does his sensibility and pragmatism matter to you, or not?

Again, another great movie that he was a part of. But of course that's just coincedence right

Actually, yes. I've seen no evidence that he is in any way responsible for the movie's quality, or lack thereof, depending on your preference.

Well, Marlon Brando hates working with Frank Oz. Ewan McGreggor hates working with blue screen. I mean so what?

And Kurtz was the producer of two movies you like. I mean, so what?

I agree. Those guys and gals all deserve a lot more credit for their input then they have been given.

They have been given credit -- much of it by Lucas himself.

What people fail the realize is that, while Lucas deserves most of the credit for what made the CT great, there was a checks and ballances in place on the creative end.

No, it's your perception that people fail to realize that, so you can carry on your belief that Kurtz's "sensibility and pragmatism" kept Lucas in check.

I've met very few people who don't think there was a system of checks and balances, between Lucas and just about everyone he worked with, on the OT. And there still is one. It's just a different set of people (although Ben Burtt has worked with Lucas since the OT).

It was not just Lucas as the Lucasfilm propaganda machine would have us believe. And one of those integral checks was Kurtz.

What propaganda machine? Lucasfilm credits him as the creator of SW. He's that. It credits him as the writer of all the stories, and three of the screenplays (with one more being written). He's that. It credits him as the director of three of the movies (with one more to be directed). He's that. Please don't invent stuff to prove your point about how Kurtz is some underrated genius or whatever.

 

I don't know, Shelly, I mean we have 2 Star Wars movies that everyone agrees are great and we have 3 that are in dispute. Why is that? What is missing from the other 3 films that has caused so many people to backslide? I grant you it may be a coincedence that Kurtz was involved the 2 most loved and maybe not. But what I can tell you is that when I weigh Kurtz's ideas and Lucas's ideas against what I personally apreciated about ANH and ESB and I can see that they both have merit and I get a sense of a missing peace to the puzzle. So yes, Kurtz's controbution was a lot smaller then Lucas's but what he did contribute seems to have resonated with me and to a lot of other people who feel that the prequal trilogy is just lack something.

Now you say Lucas is checked even now huh? By whom? McCallum? Colman? Knowls? His kids? I would sure like to see some evidence of that becaues it sure flies in the face of everything I have seen and heard and read to the contrary.

 

I don't know, Shelly, I mean we have 2 Star Wars movies that everyone agrees are great and we have 3 that are in dispute.

No, we have 5 Star Wars movies that many people like and many people don't like.

Why is that? What is missing from the other 3 films that has caused so many people to backslide?

And what is it about the other 3 films that has caused so many people to love them, and bring new fans to the series?

I grant you it may be a coincedence that Kurtz was involved the 2 most loved and maybe not. But what I can tell you is that when I weigh Kurtz's ideas

Kurtz's ideas? What were Kurtz's ideas? I have never heard of Kurtz's ideas. If you're talking about the original outline for the saga that Kurtz mentions, those were Lucas's ideas. Oh, I suppose Lucas wrote that with Kurtz standing over him and saying, "This sucks, George. That's a better idea."

and Lucas's ideas against what I personally apreciated about ANH and ESB and I can see that they both have merit and I get a sense of a missing peace to the puzzle. So yes, Kurtz's controbution was a lot smaller then Lucas's but what he did contribute seems to have resonated with me

And what did he contribute?

and to a lot of other people who feel that the prequal trilogy is just lack something.

He was a producer, and not a very competent one. He contributed some technical stuff, but I see no evidence that he contributed anything creative. Kurtz has inexplicably become the folk hero of people who dislike the prequels and want someone to blame, and fallacious reasoning is used in place of proof.

Now you say Lucas is checked even now huh? By whom? McCallum? Colman? Knowls?

McCallum. Ben Burtt. The employees who begged him to tone down Jar Jar. (He refused.) And I am sure there are others.

His kids? I would sure like to see some evidence of that becaues it sure flies in the face of everything I have seen and heard and read to the contrary.

What have you seen and heard and read to the contrary? I'd like to know. I've seen a lot of specious reasoning on the part of Kurtz Kultists, and blatant falsities about how the "Beginning" documentary shows how he's surrounded by nothing but yes-men. I've seen no hard evidence.

 

A few points ---

If we are going to go by how controversial the SW movies have been with the fans, we ought to start with TESB. The way BlackPool describes the faith as being on the way down for each of the movies - that is actually correct. And it started with a lot of fans disliking the Star Wars sequel back in 1980. That's just the way it is. You are not going to have one film following the other, and not have ANY fans of the first fall by the wayside, imo. And of course this happens for each one of them. We could also count the new fans in, if anyone is willing to hear what they have to say about the (so far) 5 films' merits.

Kurtz' ideas and creative input? I don't know. I don't see much. But I do recall interviews with both Kershner and Kasdan that state how the creation of TESB (and in Kasdan's case RotJ as well) were a great big workshop between Lucas and the writer (Kasdan) and the director (Kershner or Marquand). Kurtz is not mentioned. I believe he did his job as a producer, but that Lucas thought he didn't do that job as well as he could have. Right or wrong, I don't understand where all this about Kurtz' creative input comes from. Is it from him stating how it SHOULD have been, now that he's seen something that he notices the fans don't all like the same...?

And please don't call me "a gusher who is unable or unwanting to admit that Lucas makes mistakes" just because I don't make Kurtz out to be a god. You're right I don't, and I never make Lucas out to be one either. But this "argument" cropped up way too fast in this thread for my comfort...

 

Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but I cannot get my head around someone thinking ANH and ESB are 'better' due to Kurtz being the producer. That's highly subjective.

It's so nice to be that rarest of SW fans (it seems) - someone that loves watching all 5 films.

 

I have some gripes with this interview...

"The unsung heroes"
"Me and some friends of mine have the Kurtz theory..."
Oh, if someone interviewed Lucas by kissing butt like this, I'm sure we'd hear it...

A director being the "only creative entity" is not what the auteur theory means...come on, "the only creative entity"...?

What is with this guy that once there is another man or woman (The Producer who says 'no') next to the director (who is singled out to be quite on his or her own here), everything is fine? I mean, come on, this sounds so much like a cry of bitterness. It sounds so much like making the "thinking" Producer, the "Sounding Board", as Kurtz obviously believes himself to be, the salvation of movies.

Well, it's fun to note how Kurtz despises having outside influences during the production of the film, like other filmmakers lending an eye and an opinion, while Lucas (the yes-man guru) still does show his work to people before it's done. To get input.

Kurtz DOES have a point about the 'deals' and 'rights' thing, but that is something that applies to EXECUTIVE and ASSOCIATE producers, of which there are often as many as 10 or 12 on films these days. I agree with him on this, but even better points are offered by Rick McCallum on starwars.com when he discusses the role of the producer and who has the right to be called a producer.

What Kurtz says about the producer vs the director and the talking about classic era Hollywood is quite a big piece of making saviours out of producers, the people with the 'grand vision' (and the people that wanted to make money on films in "those days" were somehow better "showmen" than those who make money on films today??? Come on - nostalgia trip alert!), and putting the directors down as people who are told that producers are bad, etc. Imo, this is one big piece of writing things to fit Kurtz' view of himself as the Star Wars martyr. Strong words from me, I know, but the stuff Kurtz says here (UNcountered and UNbalanced by the reporter...) is so obviously with an agenda, and it's not even very good film history...

Kurtz does NOT have a point about Lucas being determined to find a director for Jedi that was easier to control than Kershner. According to Kershner himself, he was asked to direct RotJ but refused. And regretted. After that, David Lynch was approached. But he was doing Dune. You know, Kurtz seems to be making up his own stories here...

And then it's the bit about Lucas and 'good enough'. Know I don't know anything about what Lucas and Kurtz might have argued about, or what the issues between the two might have been, but I do know that fans often hold it against Lucas that he once told a struggling FX team that were doing post-production on something that it didn't have to be "perfect", it only had to be "good enough". And this is taken completely out of context when they hit Lucas with it. He told a group of desperate workers who weren't getting it right that it didn't have to be perfect - it's psychology! I directed a play this fall, and I used this very thing on my actors when we really hit the wall on something. You know, it worked, and the result wasn't 'good enough' - it was 'amazing'. It has to do with lowering shoulders and giving people realistic goals, because that's when they let go and you can keep pushing them to another level. It's not an ethic on how 'good' your work has to be.

And boy, the bit about how George was supposedly an arse with the "poor" cinematographer...OK, it's "reasonable" that George says exactly what that professional cinematographer wants to hear (and not "turn off this light"), but it's somehow not as reasonable that this same cinematographer deals with a new kid on the block and adjusts? Why the crap is this some character flaw of Lucas'??? People, this interview is so full of agenda, it's scary! [face_shocked]

You know, it would be fair and fun to see the other side of this story, from someone who has worked with Kurtz. Not to wrong Kurtz, but to get more than ONE input. Guys, please, don't put all y

 

Not to mention the sheer fact that Kurtz hasn't worked with the guy since 1980.

Lucas was under so much stress during the filming of ANH that he HAD to get someone else to direct ESB and ROTJ. He did get into several arguements with the lighting director of ANH, but this was due to the stress on Lucas and the lighting director's unwillingness to accept new ideas. No-one had seen a film like ANH before. I can understand George being a little moody under pressure back in the day, he seems a lot more laid-back now.

 

I find it funny how Kurtz is worshipped by so many for his contributions to the SW saga, while Rick McCallum is dismissed as a "yes-man" who is a hanger-on, and doesn't really do anything of value. They both had the same roles in the film, correct?

I just wish people could be more accepting of all things Star Wars.

Of course Kurtz was the genuis behind ANH and ESB. I mean, look at his long producing track record in the past 22 years......

 

It is a shame that Kurtz is bitter about it. After the situation with ESB, he really does only have himself to blame.

And I like McCallum, mainly due to his appetite for swearing so much, heh. I imagine he and Ewan McGregor would be a nightmare for censors Probably melt the bleep machine.

 

I respect McCallum and Kurtz equally, and I don't have too many objections with what Kurtz is throwing around about Lucas. It's mainly the way he slags off his former partner (as well as that former partner's new partners, like McCallum) without knowing anything about the current productions and how they work, that gets me. I haven't heard Rick say anything bad about Gary, and I doubt I ever will. Why does Kurtz let himself get led into these situations. He doesn't know crap about what McCallum does every day of a Star Wars production.

But the main problem here is how someone does an "interview" with Kurtz, kisses bottom intensely and avoids any critical questions, just to satisfy their own agenda and need for Lucas/McCallum-blood. I don't have a problem with what Kurtz likes or doesn't like about the SW movies he never worked on, that's all his entitled opinions, but I do have a problem with this "reporter" guy focusing it in the way he does. That I do.