Immortality question

I'm sure this has been covered plenty, but I hadn't seen anything on this site about it (of course I didn't really look to hard):

I understand how Qui-Gon, Yoda and Obi-Wan all had the training to become immortal; and I can aslo easily accept the idea that Anakin had the training/ability to do the same...however, what's up with the disappearing bodies of Yoda and Obi-Wan versus the bodies of Qui-Gon and Anakin that were burned?

 

I really have no idea, but Qui-Gon was the first to do it, so maybe it happened a little after death or something...

And Anakin didn't do it himself, he was pulled in by Yoda and Obi-Wan, and we really only see his suit burning, so maybe his body had disapeared...

 

Who is to say that Anakin didn't disappear? All we see on screen is the Vader suit being burned. His body may have vanished like the bodies of Obi-Wan and Yoda. It just isn't noticed because he is incased in the suit.

As to Qui-Gon, my thought has always been that he learned the power by accident. Due to the accidental discovery, the process wasn't complete. We never see him take ghost form--he is just a voice. So it is logical to conclude that he isn't at the same level as Ben and Yoda in terms of being a force ghost. He learned the power and taught it to them, when they died they fully understood it and thus were able to master it.

It is possible that Obi-Wan and Yoda made Anakin immortal--but it is also possible that Vader learned it on his own. He was very confused when Obi-Wan vanished and it is highly possible that he spent the next few years trying to learn just how it all happened. Anakin is always in pursuit of more power--and the power of immortality is the greatest of all.

The irony of course is that Anakin left the Jedi because they couldn't be immortal and in the end they are the ones who learn immortality--not the Sith.

-Seldon

 

yoda was too embarressed to leave his clothes when he died and became immortal, so it seems as if he took his clothes with him, while ol' ben disapeared with out his clothes lol

 

There is no logic to this. Why is Qui-Gon Jinn missing? Also, according to the ROTS script, Qui-Gon Jinn said to Yoda: "The ability to defy oblivion can be achieved, but only for oneself." So, I don't know how Yoda and Obi-Wan "pulled" Anakin.

 

One question: Is the immortality Sidious discusses with Anakin the same one that Qui-Gon and Yoda experience? At first I thought so, but then he talks about the ability to keep loved ones alive. So maybe Sidious' immortality is the traditional one (instead of dying and keeping your identity, merely not dying at all)

If Sidious is talking about Qui-Gon's type of immortality, then its reasonable to believe Vader learned the trick from him, as opposed to being "pulled" into the afterlife by Yoda.

Or maybe I just need to see Ep3 again.

 

sidious lied to anakin

in the original script qui-gon tells yoda that the sith cant achieve immortality

i think anakin comes back as a force ghost because he is created by the living force

qui-gon can first retain some of his identity thru anakins pain (eg his tusken slaughter & when he becomes vader), it is the will of the force that anakin comes back as a force ghost, it is all connected to him

 

Lies and deception are the way of the Sith. Palpatine was using that lie to control Anakin--Sith never achieved that power. They think only of themselves, to achieve the power, one must be selfless.


-Seldon

 

Qui-Gon did indeed learn the technique after death ("When I became one with the Force I made a great discovery" - RotS script). It has also been accomplished in the past ("It was accomplished by a Shaman of the Whills") of which Yoda is apparently aware, since he says that Qui-Gon "studied the Ancient Order of the Whills". He didn't necessarily master his studies, since he learned how to retain his identity after death. So, the ability to pull another into the Force may be an advanced stage of the technique Qui-Gon had not discovered. Since Yoda and Obi-Wan are taught how to do it by Qui-Gon, they might discover additional knowledge after death.

Also, I think that in order to achieve immortality, a Jedi must leave behind everything of the physical world ("Your physical self will fade away, but you will retain your consciousness....you will learn to let go of everything. No attachment, no thought of self. No physical self"). Qui-Gon is cremated, thus his physical self is totally eradicated, allowing him to become one with the Force. Yoda and Obi-Wan learn the ability to do this themselves; the disappearing trick. Anakin either disappears or joins the Force upon cremation.

Of course, it would seem that the Jedi don't leave behind everything, since they retain their identity. But Qui-Gon talks of leaving behind your physical form, so that only your very essence - soul, spirit, whatever - remains. The highest state of enlightenment is to transcend physicality and become but a soul. That is what the Jedi do, and that is what the Jedi strive to do; to go beyond the physical to unlock the powers of the spiritual.

 

Maybe the chosen one gets automatic immortality on completion of destroying the Sith.