Imperial Knight Force Philosophy

This might well be a repost, I'll warn you now. I have only read through issue 16. If it is a repost, I'm happy for it to be deleted if someone can direct me to the proper thread. On to the point:

In Legacy we see the sith as the force of evil, the jedi as the force of good, and the Roan Fel empire as generally good. Everyone is familiar with the philosophies of the force that are associated with the jedi and sith (ignore for the moment that Krayt is not the traditional sith and is seen as a heretic by his predecessors). What are the philosophies, and more to the point, the morals, of the Imperial Knights? They seem, especially Marasiah to be generally light side. If you have a differing opinion to this (perhaps Antares' impulsive behavior?) please mention it. If you agree, what do you think led the Imperial Remnant to create a light jedi band of protectors for their emperor? By the nature of this post it should be obvious that I would like some degree of speculation, but also I am sure people have some quality and well supported opinions on the subject.

EDIT: for spelling on poor Marasiah's name.

 

I think that IK's, while not expressly seeking the Dark Side, have no qualms about using it, nor have any problems with those among them who specialize in its use.

To me, their philosophy strikes me as a more radical version of Anakin Solo's idea in the early half of NJO- that the Force is a tool used for a specific purpose.

 

Disagree.

The Imperial Knights shouldn't be written as idiots. They are servants of the Emperor, first and foremost, to even risk becoming enslaved to the dark side would be a betrayal of their vows.

The Jedi Order might argue that they're not serving "the will of the Force" or that they're not "strictly following the light side", but the Imperial Knights could say the same thing right back at the Jedi. The Jedi Order believe the "will of the Force" is embodied in the Council, the Imperial Knights may very well believe it is embodied in the Emperor. The fact that they're wrong doesn't really matter.

Imperial Knights should know not to use the Force unneccessarily or to inflict massive amounts of harm. Are they more likely to view it as a "tool"? Perhaps... but that isn't "of the dark side" unless they're using ridiculous amounts of Force energy without reason, or using it in seriously nasty ways.

To suggest that they have "no qualms" about using it seems... odd. If that were the case, surely they're have no problems in "seeking to use it whenever they felt neccessary".

 

People seem to connect, both here and in other threads, the Imperial Knights with Darksiders... I can't understand it myself - these people aren't the Sith, and they aren't remnants of Palpatine's regime. They've grown their entire lives in a new society that hasn't yet been fully explored, and they shouldn't have to suffer the ignominy of fans automatically attributing "Empire" with "Evil", and thus too for their servants!

*gets off soap box*

I think that the IK are meant to be *the* counterpart to the Jedi order of the Republic. They are an analogous institution that just happens to be serving a different government. They are not the Legacy equivalent of Palpatine's hands/inquisitors/disciples. That position is already filled by the Sith, whom the IK oppose (granted, because their Emperor opposes the Sith, but until we see some converted IK in the Sith ranks I'm going to assume that there are also philosophical differences between the two).

I dunno, it just seems like the fans aren't giving them a fair go *whine* (Can you tell I'm an IK fan? I just dig those suits...). Course, most of this theory goes to bust if and when we actually see some IK going nasty on people to get information for their Emperor, or violating his will for morally abhorrent purposes (instead of just running off to help their sweetie...), but that is a bridge yet to be crossed!

 

*enthusiastic applause*

Well said, particularly the bit about the suits.

Actually, the Imperial Knights are more or less exactly what I always pictured the Jedi Knights of the Old Republic as (instead of the ultra-bland moisture farmers we ended up with in the PT), building on Obi-Wan's account in ANH and Luke's appearance in Jedi costume in RotJ, right down to the black suits and the armour.

 

Wow! Me too!

I never thought Obi-Wan's robes were "Jedi Robes". It thought they were his disguise. You know, random shavit (ultra-bland moisture farming gear) he'd found on Tattooine to help him blend in.

He was General Kenobi, after all. A Jedi Knight. Of COURSE I imagined armour!

 

Haven't the Empire been explored in movies and piles of books and comics? It's evil. It's servants are either evil or seriously misguided. If someone has "Imperial" as part of their job title, they fall in either of those two categories (if they are not agents of other powers, members of resistance) etc. Based on this, the prosecution doesn't have to prove that the IKs are darksiders or near-darksiders, it's the job of the defense, or preferably, the job of the IKs themselves in the comic, to prove otherwise. (I admit that the comic's creators are not intending them to be darksiders, but they haven't made much effort to show them not to be darksiders either. But IU, that can't be known.)

There's been lot of whitewashing of Roan Fel, so much that one could try to claim that he, mass murderer that he is, isn't totally evil. But, if he wouldn't be totally evil, then he would be trying to regain the wrong job. The Empire is evil. Victory Without War, Imperial Mission etc was intended to mitigate, to tone down, the Empire's evil nature. It failed. The Fels thought they could redeem the Empire. They couldn't. Darth Krayt is far more legitimate Emperor, because he is true to the Empire's nature. Morlish Veed would be more legitimate than Roan Fel, because he too is more true to the Empire's nature. The Fels thought they were ruling over something nicer than was the case. And for that they paid dearly.

The IKs are not the similar to the OJO Jedi. OJO Jedi were in service of the Old Republic, not the Supreme Chancellor. The IKs are not the knights of the Empire, they are knights of the Emperor, they don't serve the Empire, they serve the Fel Emperors. They are in every respect similar to Palpatine's Royal Guards and Dark Side Adepts except one: They are not intended to be darksiders by the comic's creators. At this point, I would say that at best the IKs fall to the seriously misguided category of Imperials.

One huge problem with the IKs is that they appear to be Potentium followers and recent books, novels and guide, have demolished Potentium totally. It corrupts, it's a path to the Dark Side. And it's most famous follower has become a Sith and based on the Invicible cover (and recent developments in Fury and the Revelation preview) will probably get defeated by his sister, Roan Fel's likely grandmother, in Invincible. Why do the IKs exist then? Why would such an organization have been founded, probably by a person who knows very well Potentium's corrupting nature? How could Jaina or her descendants justify this? I think this is the biggest problem with the IKs. It's very hard to come up with a good reason for their existence in post-LotF galaxy.

 

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I have to say, I never envisioned armor...but I thought Jedi would be more flexible in their suiting. I also expected considerable diversity...I never imagined the Jedi as a "uniformed" association.

Now I have visions of the Jedi Quartermaster measuring inseams and bust sizes before dumping out the "one-size-fits-most" apparel.

though they can have a communal laundry...I bet laundry people find all kinds of cool stuff in Jedi pockets!

No doubt a Jedi would never wear the same Robe twice in that case....

...

creepy.

 

I thought it was a religion. At least in ANH.

Jedi Knights would be armoured soldiers. Jedi Doctors/other professions wouldn't. That kind of thing.

 

Ah...well I thought every Jedi was a Knight...I thought it came with the territory...even things like healers, I've always thought...Knight first...healer second.

To know the force, is to be responsible for it's defense...how I always took it.

But even so, I didn't see them as soldiers...I didn't expect a futuristic Knight in Glittering Steel...at least not all the time.

I thought more along the lines of the Samurai...if it was bad enough to bust out "armor" things were not well in the "peaceful" Old Republic.

 

I just got up to speed on all of Legacy last week and remembered a quote about this to look up that I posted in another thread last night. Wolf Sazen in issue 12 scolds Cade "You could have asked me or Shado or even the Imperial Knights to help you save the princess, to guide you, to work with you in the lightside...." So if Wolf, a prominate Jedi Master thinks the Imperial Knights operate in the "lightside".
Of course on the flip side the 1/2 guide says the Imperial Knights do not strictly follow the lightside, so I guess the sources we have conflict somewhat. I kinda prefer to look at Wolf's statement because it comes from in-universe, but thats just me.

Just because something is called Imperial doesn't make it inherantly evil. It completely throws away the innocent until proven guilty ideal so ingrained in many of our cultures. For me the Empire stopped being Evil a while back, prehaps even prior to the Hand of Thrawn Duology.

 

I think is was "in" Hand of Thrawn Duology...when the calmer heads prevailed...those books were all about dropping the "Imperial=bad" tag.

 

Personally to me the Imperial Knights have aspects of the old jedi order, the new jedi order. and aspects of Palpatine's pawns like the royal guard, hands and various other force using groups under his command.

To me the IK probably are taught to use the lightside simply because it makes them more apt to be able to be loyal to the emperor where as if they were all dark siders you'd have plenty of coup attempts to deal with.

However I don't think they have any real dedication to it. The real test would be what will the knights do if Roan Fel falls to the darkside. Will they follow their emperor into darkness or do the right thing and turn their backs on him.

I'm not a fan of Roan at all, but I don't consider him a darksider yet. Of course it wouldn't shock me at all if he doesn't end up a darksider before he dies.

 

Except that the Empire has been proven guilty. And in SW, calling something Imperial made it evil until the revisionism of some recent products.

 

Yes, and really, it's not gone over as well as it could have. A lot of fans are enthusiastic about the return of evil Imperials in Legacy.

As for the Imperial Knight's philosophy?

Of COURSE, it's

"SERVE THE EMPEROR ABOVE ALL OTHERS!"

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This is the Second Empire that is controlled by Darth Krayt, correct?

 

I'm going to ignore the rest of your post, since I know arguing is pointless, but I have to address this, since it's a peeve of mine:

Potentiumism is not what you're suggesting it is.

Call the IKs darksiders if you like, whatever; but Potentiumism is a very clearly defined philosophy that barely shows up in the EU.

 

As opposed to the Jedi philosophy....

"SERVE THE REPUBLIC ABOVE ALL OTHERS"

 

I believe it's serve the FORCE above all others.

 

And it's a path to the Dark Side, perhaps even started by the Sith as a way of luring Force sensitives to their doom. As a philosophy, it's harmless only when the person who believes in it is not a Force sensitive and isn't able to convert Force sensitives to follow it.

 

Plenty of force sensitives follow the Potenium and don't fall to the Dark Side.

See the Potenium colonists on Zonoma Seskot or Seskot itself.

 

I believe it's serve the FORCE above all others.

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They have done that once or twice in their history, I suppose maybe sometime between ruling the Republic for a few hundred years with their own miltary and the Clone Wars where they lead the Republic's armies as generals, unwittingly serving a Sith Lord. . Luke's order has actually come across far more neutral than the older Jedi Orders. Actions speak louder than words, Jedi can claim their neutrality all they wish. Serving the Force seems to get lumped in with serving the republic a lot of the time.

 

Most of the time the Republic is the good guys ;-)

 

You misunderstand what I'm saying: you're misusing the 'Potentium' label. You're free to accuse the Imperial Knights of dark side practices; you're free to accuse Potentiumists of dark side practices; but claiming that Imperial Knights (or Jacen, Vergere, or almost any other character who fans have labeled as such) are Potentiumists is flat-out wrong.