Gaming In a grim dark far future there is only war - A thread for Warhammer 40k

There are some real problems right now with the distribution of WB, at least in Europe, so it's not surprising that your WD is a month behind. My lockal store have been a month behind this regin of Nurgle

 

It is what it is.

I'll get the next issue around the time I get my second dose of the vaccine so at least I will have something to read when I am dealing with any side.effects

 

GW have just released some more Adeptus Titanicus transfer sheets: Flames, Stripes, or Even Astral Diagrams – Customise Your Titans With Unique Heraldry - Warhammer Community

Have anybody seen how those Adeptus Titanicus transfears looks on their standard 28 mm figures?

 

Not sure but I am tempted to get a few just for the checkerboard pattern transfers for my 30k DA

 

If you do, show some photos where you can see the sice of teh transfears compared to the marines

 

It would ill be awhile, GW shipping is very slow right now due to covid.

 

Found issue 463 of White Dwarf at the local WH Smiths this morning.

 

Ok Gaunt 9 is rocking big time! The game has changed.

 

So here is my speculation about nexT weeks 40k previews.

Tuesday more new sisters of battle and Work models. There are work banners and sisters banners in the announcement.

The black library day. The realase date info for the reworking of the books around the dark imperium(with the retcons about the timeline for the Infinitum crusade). The announcement of the title of the next siege of terra novel. A era Indomitus book featuring one of the first founding chapters(Blood Angels most likely. I would love a Blood Angle/Dark Angels book set in Imperium nihilus as the Dark Angels are supposed to be the chapter leading the defense of the gateway through the Citrix Maledictum thats the only passage between the two halves of the Imperium). Maybe a Dark Angels vs Fallen novel

2nd 40k day which is thursday, Xenos(eldar or tau) and/or new Fallen kit and a Luther Model(I am basing this on the fact that the Fallen are getting new rules next white dwarf, the fallen kid(which is also the Dark Angels Veterans box, lol) is getting a little old, as well as fact that Luther and his friends have been getting a lot of page time.recently thanks to the Luther novel and

Spoiler: Spoiler Mortis

Vassago and other confirmed Fallen being with Corswain on Terra in Mortjs

. The fallen and Luther could be the surprise for Saturday. I don't think its the Lion like some.though he is a possibility I think GW will bring Luther and the fallen storyline to a head before the wake the Lion.

Saturday either the above.Fallen stuff or the rumored Plastic Horus heresy box set/30k 2.0

 

I'm listening to the lore regarding War Zone Damocles - read in by A Border Prince poddcast - and I have to say that it feels like the authors in their need to show how cool and competent the Tau and their commanders are make the Space Marines act like fools, instead of the over 100 years old veterans of all manner of warfare and battlefields. Also, on a stormy world do it feel like the White Scars stormseers should constantly be bending the weather to their benefit, in one way or another.

Also, in the text they mention that eight SM Chapters are part of the fight for Prefectia and while I like that they don't name them all (giving people the chance to put their own Chapter there) could htey have namedropped one or two more than the White Scars and Raven Guard.

 

Per the the novels Star of Damocles and And savage Scars. the eight chapters present.

1. white Scars

2. Raven Guard.

3. Iron hands

4. Black Templars

5. The EightH company of the Ultra Marines

6. Novamarines.

7.Subjagators

8. Hammers of Dorn.

This is the series of books that makes me Leary of reading non heresy White scars and Raven Guard. They do not do these two first founding chapters justice outside of the heresy.

 

Warhammer 30k - Duel of glory by Dagahaz



Warhammer 30k - Death Battle by Dagahaz

 

So, the iron halo on my Lion model broke off the backpack while move stuff from a game I played yesterday back to my desk where I keep him in display. Lost in the carpet somewhere.

Mind you I hate the flimsly iron halos for most imperial models but especially for Primarch ones.

Thankfully the DA veterans and Raven wing plastic kits come to the rescue. Taking inspiration from the fact that the iron halo does not have to be a actual halo(see Rogalq Dorn's awhile shaped one) I took a Bit from the DA veterans box, a Angel of Death with shield and sword backpack icon and painted it gold and Glued it atop the Lion's backpack.

I also painted a bunch of the incense censor things(which the Praetor in Cataphracti from Forge world comes with one as well so they did have them in the heresy) and painted them and glued them to the belts of some of the characters themselves such as the Legion Champion that I am producing as Corswain, the mark 3 model I kitbashed into Red loss, the Chaplain for the Calth box set I got in the in a space marine heroes two pack that I made a Redemptor Chaplain(in the style of Nemiel from the novels) and a few Sergeants. It goes them a more DA feel exorcise the ones that have the standard non winged helmet heads.

 

Corswain, The Lion's Sensechal, Legion Champion, Member of the 9th order. Helmet from Shapeways(3rd party seller) everything else the forge world Legion Champion). Third party animal pelt bit. There is A DA winged sword icon on a rope handing from the belt from the DA vet kit but you cannot see if from this angle.I also DA mark 3 upgrade shoulder pads from Forge world in right should



Redloss( sorry blurry). Went with a worn look as for the armor as he is the dreadbringer(voted Lieutenant of the Dreadwing). Forgeworld upgrade head, Forgeworld Mark III power weapon upgrade ,Incense burner amd icon glued to backpack from DA veterans kit DA Mark 3 shoulder pad from Forgeworld


Dreadwimg Sergeant-Shapeways non winged helmet DA style heme. Mark 4 body. Right shoulder and plasma Pistol from 40k DA upgrade sprue, Censor from DA veterans box.


9th order Sergeant(serves as under Corswain)Redloss and Master of Signals in background). Mark IV body, Shapeways winged helmet. Mark 4 sergeant arms, pistol and power sword, Mark 3 right shoulder(to show how they mix and matched for repairs during the war). Left shoulder painted green to show Caliban born.


The Lion with new Iron halo (I straightened the sword after) Corswain in background

 

I honestly think the 2nd to last one(the sergeant with the winged helmet) may be my best paint job so far. The helmet came out perfect and the trim on the shoulder looks really really good.

@Gamiel . I really like the IF vEC art you posted. The person who did that does a really good job of showing the different between Mark III.armor(of the Temple Brother) and the Mark IV of the emperors children Marine

 

Some pre war hammer Fest reveals

Necromunda upgrades, Blood Bowl stuff ,Orks for underworlds, Direchasm cards for underworld

 

Just want to throw around some thoughts regarding ideas for successor Chapters thing, or how to make your successor Chapter not like-dad-just-different-colours.

Now, the second Tenet of Aaron Dembski-Bowden says that “It doesn’t matter who your daddy is.” which means that when it comes down to it do your gene-linage not really matter when it comes to who you are – with some exceptions: all successors to the BA share their notable gene-flaw and that most influence how they act and/or see themselves; and all known DA successors are part of the Unforgiven (theoretically, it could be a fun concept with a DA successor who, for some reason, is not part of the Unforgiven) and that marks them in some way, even if they don’t need to have something like the Ravenwing and/or Deathwing.

Now, you could just take a standard concept/idea for a Chapter and just have their gene-linage as something that’s mentioned in the background and nothing more. Even if you could also use the linage for some fun family drama with rivalry, fraternity and/or need to either get dad’s approval or thinking him somebody that don’t have any right to tell you how you should live.

But this discussion is more for when you know your DIY Chapter’s linage and not much more and want inspiration for how to give them some personality of their own.

Now, I have many thoughts for this so instead of just doing a general presentation of my thoughts do I instead think I’m going to do a discussion of each of the founding Chapters.

Lets begin with the First, the Dark Angels. So we say that you have your DIY Chapter and know that they DA successors but not really much more about them and want to create some lore about them.

The DA’s main themes during the Horus Heresy would I say were knights, knightly orders, secret societies, and do-what-ever-it-takes-to-finished-the-mission with a smaller theme of angels (much less notable than the Blood Angels but it’s there, they are e.g. divided into hosts, like the Heaven host). The DA’s current main themes are monks, secret societies, a secret shame and need to redeem themself by hunting down those of their line that brought the shame; they also have some smaller themes of knights, angles/demons (mostly their names), winged hussars (Ravenwing’s look), and Plains Indians (mostly abounded now but big in earlier editions).

You could just take one of those themes and fully focus on that:
A Chapter that is very knightly, with little to none of the other themes. Could go very historical, the chivalric romance idea of knights, or look at modern pop-culture about knights (what about a Chapter based on the knights, or one of them, in Game of Thrones? Or the knightly orders from Warhammer Fantasy, the Empire’s as well as Britton’s?). Here you could make the hunt for the Fallen something similar to knight-errant quest, with small groups of marines going out to find a Fallen and bring it back, instead of the whole Ravenwing and Deathwing stuff. A very chivalric Chapter, both in acts and deeds, would be different from both your HH and current DA, and many of the successors.
Variations of this theme could be to take another kind of warrior-nobility as the theme, like the samurai, or you could jump a bit in time and focus on the earlier types of knights than what is usually used as inspiration, or jump forward and theme your Chapter around the European nobility (or just one country’s) after the age-of-knights fully ended.

Or fully focus on the secret society aspect: there are lots of secret societies, both existing and historical, real and made up, that you can take your inspiration from. Many of them have lots of mystical/quasi-mystical rituals that are great for Wh40k, and many of them are presented in pop-culture/conspiracy theories as hiding something terrible, very fitting with the DA. While the European ones are likely the most well-known among us do there exist secret societies all over the world, so just look around. Worth mentioning that the Plains Indians had many known secret societies (as in the societies was known and membership not something you hide, but everything you did at the meetings and what was thought to you was secret). If you want to go more villain, or to point out that the Imperium is not the good guys at all, so is the KKK technically a secret society (or at least was).

The theme of do-what-ever-it-takes-to-finished-the-mission is a bit harder to build stuff around, unless you want to take a look at the times when humanity did terrible things in the name of victory and maybe build around one of those events and the culture that did that. This kind of Chapter is likly either constantly being watched by the =][= for stepping a bit to close to the line to many times, or often used by the =][= since they are willing to do what it takes, unlike some mor human/honourable chapters.

You could also go full in with the angel theme and base them on a kind of angel from mythology. Or base them on the angels in a pop-cultrual work, if you have the In Nomine RPG could you base the chapter on one of the angel types from that, or one of the arch-angels. Or you could go a bit sideway and use the "angels" from Neon Genesis Evangelion (or just one of them) as inspiration.
Or maybe a chapter that see itself as even more fallen from grace than the other Unforgiven (because of mutations, acts they have done, a overdeveloped sense of shame, or such) and style themself after demons, Dante's Inferno or similar.

When it comes to the monastic theme could you fully focus on that with the chapter being religious, marines expected to act as normal monks when not on duty, seeing it just as important to tend to His flock as fighting His enemies, or such. There are also other monastic orders beside the Catholic ones; maybe a Chapter based on Orthodox, Buddhist, Hindu or some other tradition.

The winged hussars are a very specific thing so if you make a chapter around that is there not that much wide of inspiration if you just focused on that. (More or less, they did exist for sometime after all, giving you much stuff that could be of inspiration.) But there is also the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth in the times when the hussars was active, and if you use that you suddenly have much more to use as inspiration, like noble families whose coat-of-arms are ripe for use for as Chapter symbol.

When it comes to a Plains Indians theme on the other hand do we have a big bucket to heave out of, with lots of real life groups, and pop-cultural interpretations/made up stuff, to use as inspiration.

Something you could do is to take one of those themes, while ignoring the other, and ad it to another concept, like:
"A fleet-based Chapter that are masters of void combat and boarding actions" with an Plains Indians theme.
"Pre-fall Iron Warriors as a modern Chapter" who are also very monastic in their culture.
"The Celts as Space Marines" with the Chapter also being a full of secret warrior societies and each Chapter level bringing new secrets and rituals for a marine.

Or focusing on just two of those themes while leaving out the rest, like:
Monk + Secret Society = "The catholic bad guys in The DaVinci Code as Space Marines"

Now since the Dark Angels’ successors are one of the exceptions to Aaron Dembski-Bowden's 2:nd Tenet, see above, (the whole Unforgiven thing) can you take a neutral Chapter concept (allied to a Titan Legion and sworn to always fight beside their titans when they go to war; underwater specialists inspired by BioShock; Zulu warriors as Space Marines; the pre-Heresy Death Guard as a modern Chapter; etc) and ask "how do they deal with the big secret and the hunt for the Fallen"?




What do people think about those thoughts?

 

@Gamiel

The Plains Indian thing for the DA you now only see on old Death wing models like Belail although there is a feather on Lazarus' belt it was a interesting mix of Space Knights templar with Plains Indian but GW moved away from it for some reason and actually decanonized the old Death wing short story as just a legend the Chaplains tell the scout Marines as of the 9th edition Dark Angels supplement.

, non Unforgiven DA are possible and even exist in non homebrew chapters though mostly they fall into the presumed as DA successors. Also there are tons of chapter where their gene seed are unconfirmed most famously the Blood Ravens.

The sheer amount of of Ultra marine successors that have more in common with other Legions points to this. There is also at least one Imperial Fist successorS that recently has been revealed to be not of Dorns gene seed, the soul drinkers had their gene seed tested by a Sanguinary priest, they are not sons of Dorn apparently.

Also this is especially true for Primaris chapters, Cawl likely did use Traitor gene seed despite Gilliland ordering him not to. The Sons of the Phoenix are suspiciously similar to Pre heresy Emperors children.

There are two "Ultramarines Successors" with whose naming conventions are surprisingly similar to the descendants of other Legions. The Angels of fury(thats a very Unforgiven style of name) and the Angels Revenant(very blood angels) Compare that to the Fire Angels another successor who are more likely real Ultra marine successors..Hell, the Silver skulls are pretty much confirmed to be Loyalist Iron Warriors(Descendants of the the company led by War smith Dantioch,there chapter symbol is Dantioch's unique helmet)

there was a non Unforgiven DA successor, the Relictors, they where confirmed in Rage of Asmodai , when Asmodai gives them the Relic they are looking for in a box that can only be opened by Astartes with the Lion's gene seed in exchange for help hunting one of the fallen. So I guess afterwords.

Another possible Dark Angels successor that is not part of the unforgiven is The Star Phantoms. Their Chapter symbol is the Dread wing Hourglass with a skull in it , follow the codex variation the Unforgiven do in terms of Deveastator squads as well. they deny they are DA.successors for some reason very vehemently.

Then you have the Angels of Absolution who are Unforgiven but do not carry the Shame of it. Feeling that the actions of their founders during the battle of Caliban absolved them of any shame..

So yeah I agree on you can pretty much do anything for homebrews. Even loyalists from.traitor gen seeds as long as there either of unknown lineage(aka Blood Ravens who are likely Word Bearers or Thousand sons) or officially successors of another Legion like Silver Skulls being Ultra marine successors officially but really loyalist Iron Warriors.

Then you get into the fact the their are Chimeric Chapters how are believed to have more than one set of gene seed before they went Renegade during the Babab War the Astral Claws where believe to be a mix or DA and Ultramarine. The Carchadons actually a another chapter for their gene seed in one of their novels.

There are tons of possibilities.

 

If Dantioch was the only Iron Warrior who defected to the Ultramarines in that part of the galaxy, then maybe the Silver Skulls got their symbol, not because they're all descended from his geneseed, mass produced, or from Iron Warrior geneseed stored prior to the Heresy, but instead just to honour his heroism.

Some things are hard to know for sure unless a novel confirms or denies it.

 

It was a more than just Dantioch. Per the short story Iron Within, It was a couple hundred Iron Warriors. The garrison of the planet Lesser Damantyne, where Dantioch had basically been exiled by Perturabo for questioning his orders when fighting the Hrud during the grest crusade.

Perturabo sent the 14th Great Company to secure it as a resupply point for Horus, Dantioch refused to betray the emperor and led his garrison force againt his own legion, calling themselves the Sons of Dantioch. They held out in a siege till the enemy deployed a Emperor Class Titan, they rigged their fortress to collapse and teleported to the traitors flagship taking it over. They headed tried to head towards Terra but the ruinstorm happened and he eventual and they Eventually ended up at Sotha.

While the i think the Silver Skulls are likely descendants in terms of Gene seed from, their is a true Ultramarine Successor that does honor to Dantioch and his men by wearing their colors and who kept Dantiochs helmet as a relic, the Scythes of the Emperor. It should be noted that the two chapters are depicted ad close and have gone to war side by side several times

 

But did many other than Dantioch survive all the way to the events of Pharos?

 

To my understanding have they not actually decanonized it, people have just interpretated that they have, unless I have missed something have they not actually declared it just in-'verse madeup or decanonized. There are things that hint at the former (or have at least been read as doing that), but nothing that have been stated right out.

I was here more thinking that everybody know that a Chapter was of DA gene-seed - they know it, the DA know it, the Lords of Terra know it, the official archives know it - but they are for some reason not part of the big secret that makes them one of the Unforgiven. That could lead to some interesting interaction between them and fellow sons of the Lion.

Not really, there is just their armour colours that are similar + Fulgrim's cognomen Phoenician that could point to that, when it comes to their description do they more sound like Black Templars or Word Bearers.

It's that kind of thinking that makes people (at least in-universe) suggest that Blood Ravens are Blood Angels successors, just becouse they have blood in their name and red armour.

Did not know that. I have the old WD Codex article where the author speculate that they could be DA or some other Legion (don't remember which) but then admit that that's just speculations and they could be of different lineage.

I'm certain that they have not done it but I just got the image in my head of a Star Phantom denying that they are DA successor, followed by him going "b.t.w. have you seen this hooded, black armoured Space Marine?"

I have to say that I really don't think they are Thousand Sons (onless some real gene-tampering have been done) since they lack the tendency for mutation

Agree with this.

Acording to this post did GW tell the author Sarah Cawkwell that they were Ultras, she had originally thought about making them White Scars successors

 

@Gamiel @Iron_lord

Its not unheard of for GW to change or rework things though and they have seemingly been changing the silver skulls into Irom Warriors with things like taking a quote from a 5th edition rulebook that was attributed to a Silver Skulls 2nd company Captain and having Dantioch say basically the same line in a heresy novel.

The best example of GW doing this is Character of Illiyane Nastase.

He was the Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines in 1st edition with the back story of him being a human- Eldar hybrid and that he had been a Dark Angel too. Then he was not canon after they sorted some stuff out(back in first Leman Russ was just a normal Space Marine). Well,

Spoiler: Dawn of fire 2 spoiler

Nastase is now back not a hybrid but a Ulthwe Eldar, sent to meet Guilliman during the Indomitud Crusade by Eldrad

Another example is the Sensei, who where living descendants of the Emperor in old editions basically got replaced in lore with the Perpetuals, who are not exaclth the same but seemingly serving a similar story telling purpose in giving us a glimspe into the backstory of thr Emperor.

 

I can definitely believe that there's a strong association between the Silver Skulls and the loyalist Iron Warriors - I'm just a bit dubious about this extending to "all Silver Skulls really have Iron Warrior geneseed rather than Ultramarines geneseed."

 

Thats fine, its just a widelg accepted theory that even is mentioned in several wikis such as the Lexicanium article on the Silver Skulls.

Also we do not know what happend to them after the Heresy, Dantioch dies on Sotha fighting the knight lords but we don't have any numbers for his men suriving. If they did survive they stayed in Ultramar when Guilliman, Sanguinius, and the Lion left to try to get to Terra. The shattered legion troops that made it to Ultramar are in the novel Ruinstorm(except for the Salamnders who had already left with Vulkand body) but no Iron Warriors.