Gaming In a grim dark far future there is only war - A thread for Warhammer 40k

Because he is kind of in the space between "just a greater demon/unkowm" and "one of the big four". He is defenetly more than a minor one I feel, also he has a huge fan following so he deserves his own category.

For me just far too many who are too similar to each other and thus only really serve to really convolute the whole thing.

There are some intresting ideas there but for example I wouldn´t put Eldar as one point, especially that before you had things likeNavy Admiral and Captain seperate, cause I feel Eldar and Dark Eldar are different enough to deserve different points/sublists of their own. Maybe its because I´m more old fashioned.
Also various Orc factions just no. All other Orks consider the Blood Axes insane for occasionally makeing deals with humans or other races, so I doubt any other Ork clan would have any lasting relation. I could maybe see Freebooters, who often are Blood Axes anyway, and maaaaybe Evil Sunz in there but especially the Sunz really stand on the threshhold between "vaguley possible" and "flat out impossible" the other clans are beyond it. Gofs and Snakebites hate everything that isn´t pure Orkyness, Deathskulls would sooner or later cause conflict by trying to steal the warbands equippment and I think its impossble for a human with a functioning brain to ever accept that just because something is painted red it goes faster.

Could but then again DA of the present are more like Freemasons with all their secrets cyrcles within cyrcles and so on while the Fists have various succesors that have zero knightly aspects: Crimson Fists, Soul Drinkers, Celestial Lions(tough of course I believe both Soul Drinkers and Lions are descendant from the Lost Legion the Fists absorbed but that´s besides the point)

Those are some good suggestions, might suggest reworking them a bit to make certian chapters more likley than others. I mean techincally Salamanders and SW should both only be doable for a 2nd founding chapter.

Do I? My point is that there is a significant difference between lost and traitor legions.

I mean sure but maybe founding is ultimatley the best idea?

Well Khaine is a god of war so I could see Marines picking him up, also we know in DoW at least Gabriel Angelos´s warhammer has a fragment of Khaine melted into it so we know Astartes do use his artifacts. With the laughing god he seems to be the only Eldar god that actually ever interacts with humans. The other Eldar gods nothing of these already weak connections exists. I mean sure, if the warband does have a relationship with the Eldar and maybe does worship Khaine I could see like the Apotehcaries being intrested in Isha or the Techmarines in Vaul. But I just feel a warband dedicated to one of them is too much. If you want I could add to the Khaine thing a "could also include some other Eldar mysticism" tag or something.

Oh sure, I´m just saying in my mind the Ork religion clearly only works for Orks because any normal being just wouldn´t believe in it. A Space Marine would never be so dumb to believe that painting your skin blue makes you imune to bullets or that a Ork Shoota could actually work. Because they know its pysically impossible. Humans lack the complete and utter rejection of reality that the Orks have. Even chaos has some rules and uses some form of power source. Also humans could never generate war enegry.

You have to think that was before, while they was still part of the Imperium, this is now and they may likely have changed their tactics. There is also the possibility that the Chapter was a non-Codex one that used serfs-at-arms to fight beside them before their fall.[/QUOTE]

Sure but I included chapter serves in one point so I aknowledged they exist.

To comitt tech heresy some kind of ground/basic knowledge is required tough.

Because weapons and armor are utterly different from Cyborgs. It would be like having a computer hardware specialist suddenly be asked to fix a plane. Sure he might have slightly more of an idea than a person with zero technical knowledge but that still doesn´t allow him to succeed.

Again would prefer the individual lists not become too convoluted.

Sure but that could also be part of their alliance to a Cabal I guess.

 

My Praetor in Mark 3 for my Heresy era Dark Angels army.

First mini I am proud of really.

 

We have some updates from Warhammer-Community:
The Codex Show – now codex are incoming and some new models
New Necromunda Hangers-on
Weapons and Wargear Updates

Also, Spannerz is beginning a new season



Oh, and we have a new episode of Warhammer Community Podcast



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B.t.w. @anakincol do you plan to make a Dark Angel’s only force or a united Unforgiven one?


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@Anedon do you know of the concept “Primarch’s Curse” that was introduced in the Deathwatch RPG?

Also, have you see this?
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Renegade_Space_Marine_Chapter_Creation_Table
https://warhammer40kfanon.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Renegade_Space_Marine_Chapters
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Renegade_Space_Marine
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Renegade_Space_Marine_Chapters_(List)

I would change the title to “Reason for them being Renegade” or “Reason for them being declared Renegade”, but the later might be a bit too long.

As earlier stated would I make #10-15 as two entries

Would change “Geenseed Flaw” into “Visible Gene-seed Flaw” since that’s the kind that’s notable for outsiders.

Regarding #15-17 so would I either rework it as “Rebellion against the Imperium’s rule”, or make that an entry of its own since “Rebellion against Imperial tyranny,” make it sounds like they are some kind of freedom fighters or similar, when the reason they rebelled could be some kind of hubris, unwillingness to do important duties that lacked glory, unwilling to accept censure for something bad they had done, etcetera.

I would remove “accused” from the entries and just have in the presentation text that the given reason might have been a bit flimsy.

I would give some examples after each, or maybe an explanation with examples below the list. Since e.g. tech heresy can come in many forms, from using forbidden archeotech, using xeno-tech, dabbling in psyber-tech without the AdMech’s approval, etcetera.

Suggest maybe adding:
- Mental instability – could be because of a flaw in their gene-seed.
- Heretical belief
- Heretekial beliefs – as in believes that the Machine Cult find heretical
- Use of warp-items – e.g. warp-technology, daemon-weapons [see the Relictors Chapter for example]
- Loyalty to another Imperial group declared renegade
- Faults found in their recruitment stock
- Overly barbaric rituals, even by the Imperium’s standard
- Problems with their psykers - alternative: notable numbers of them have suddenly developed psykhic powers. Or something else focusing on psykers.

Also, suggest making tables for:
- The Chapter’s relationship toward the Imperium (still loyal, hatred, uncaring, only caring about parts of it, etcetera.)
- Their belief/s
- How they survive

My point that there are so many more Traitor legions. But in your list so is there the same chance to be from a one of the two lost legion as one of the nine traitor ones, and even the latter is supposedly unlikely. From my perspective so is it better to just group together all the Legions who supposedly don't have any loyal decedents among them to one result and then have a table for which one where the lost ones (if they appear) have a small number. I like my version (surprisingly ) where there are results that just say that the linage are unknown and where you can have that the reason they are unknown is because they are Lost Legion linage, to outright stat that they are Lost Legion feels like making it a bit too obvious and taking away some mystery.

I really don't know if Malice is that much more powerful than other minor Chaos gods

Not really, official make-your-own-Chapter-systems have both Space Wolves and Salamanders among them so GW have thereby declared that while non are officially known so are they possible. There is also the possibility that the Renegade “Chapter” is actually just a company or even less that has gone renegade and we know of at least one Space Wolves force that turned to Chaos because of them being too close to a Chaos artifact (or similar, I don’t fully remember right now).

The reason I split that up is that a captain an admiral can give very different help and/or support to the Chapter. Just like the different governors, and fleets.

I lumped all the eldars together because they represent a similar size of support, and that prevent five/six results from being different kinds of eldars.

Cybernetics are part of the Chapter's armoury and techmarines, like seemingly most tech-priests, know how to install and take care of them in both humans and servitors.

But that's not really part of their religion.

They do work, Armageddon Ork Hunters use them and other humans have used them.

Not really. There was a relative short time where lots of foundings happened while other times did it go millennia between them.

But the thing is, Khaine is not some lone god he is part of a whole pantheon and belief structure, yes most of the other gods are dead but that don’t make Eldar’s faith just focusing on Khaine. That’s why I think that the result should be “Eldar faith/belief” instead of just naming a god.

I was more thinking of them during their Legion days.

Also, it’s established that many Chapter's cultures have zero common with their primogenitor’s culture or only kept some small parts of it.

Why do you think that?


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Also I have some ideas for Chapter's based on things from Horus Heresy, would people be interesting to hear them?

 

Well I would keep it as Psycological Geenseed flaws can also lead to them going rouge.

I guess could be that.

Hm I keep it and let the player decided, by also takeing account what info came out later wether its true or not.

I feel most of these are either already covered or pretty much redundant in general.

Could be tough believes is kinda covered by Religion.

Well you have apoint that a traitor legion should be more likley but I maintain throwing that together with Lost doesn`t work for me at all.

Well he is at least semi well known and has fans, all things the minors barely have.

I know but I´m more intrested in a realtistic list rather than a "ignore canon whenever you please" one.

Its still the same branche and with that logic you could add an entire category of what ship this captain actually commands.

I doubt that, Exodities would be very different in support than say Corsairs. Not to mention the relationship with an Eldar faction would be fundermentally different to that of a dark Eldar faction that throwing them together just doesn´t work.

Those cybernetics are a thousand times more complicated.

No but you need that mindest to follow that religion.

Then I think we have a canon conflict here, my guess is that like Yarriks power claw its actually the Orks believing in the Ork Hunters to be able to use Shootas that lets them do that.

Honestly how often do I have to repeat I dislike the millenia idea? I´m sorry but for me most Millenias have zero information and thus offer nothing to the creator that a more vague era system couldn´t.

Religions takeing elements of others is and has always been a natural thing. Like the Romans really expanded on the greek god Ares in Mars, while relegating his sister Athena as Minerva into the background. And numerous other examples like this. Point is Marines would identify with khaine the most and have little to no connection to any of the other gods. As I said the Khaine faith can mean "primarilly Khaine but some parts of the chapter have some other intrest in the other Eldar gods too".

Cause the very first mention of the Lions has them complain about the Imperial brutality towards civilians and an exterminatus. All sons of Dorn we know are utterly convinced that strenght and brutality are nessesary for the Imperium to survive. They are not Ultramarines or Salamanders who will be upset by stuff like that. The sons of Dorn all agree these are grim nesseseties. They do not care for civilians they kill stuff move on and that´s it. Dorn never imrpoved worlds he recuited from as seen in Necromunda.
So yeah the Lions are far to soft to be related to Dorn. Also being a Lion King Parody doesn´t really fit with the somber and to the points Fists at all.

As for the Soul Drinkers the Last novel mentions that the SD aren´t Dorn´s sons. And if there is one chapter wrongfully thinking that its likley others exists as well and the CL are just so not Dornian they most certianly are.

Sure would be intrested in that.

 

Geneseed isn't that tied to psychology. The Mortifactors are a Ultramarines successor, and they are far grimmer, and far more ruthless, than their parent.

 

@Gamiel

This will bee a long post.

I am doing a legion for the Horus heresy game at the moment. At the beginning of August I decided to take a break from the 40k era DA army I was building and had just read Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels(the first two Dark Angels centric heresy novels) and had found some YouTuber who play and paint Horus Heresy era models(Leaky cheese, Outer Circle, Pete the war gamer, and also Kirioth who paints both 40k and Heresy. I find the early DA black, silver, and red color scheme more forgiving and since I am still relatively new to the hobby it allows me to practice painting techniques with less consequences if I mess up.

I had 36th birthday 2 weeks ago and got a bunch of visa and Amex gift cards that I spent on warhammer mini's. Lol.

Here what I have so far but without added points values

The Lion(unpainted and not built yet)- waiting for next week paycheck as I need to restock on some paints, get some new colors for the night lords that are part of the diorama base. Looking to start on him the weekend after this one. Considering trying going with the magnetization stuff I see slot of people doing on models because he come with 2 weapon options(Lion Sword and Wolf sword) and two head options(hardheaded and a winged helmet)

The above Praetor in Mark 3. Who I am debating as playing as Corswain(canon named DA Praetors are Luther, Corswain, and Astelan, Luther and Astelan being guys who eventual betray the Lion and I am playing loyal)

A Terminator Praetor that I will play as Holquin, voted Lieutenant of the Deathwing (aka the Deathbringer)

I have a forge world Interemptor squad one the way(got lucky they were briefly back in stock on the site on my birthday, there out of stock again)

1 squad Mark 3 crusader armor half of them painted up so far.

1 squad mark 4 heresy pattern armor Dark Angels,DA are said to get slot of the best war gear in canon as they are the 1st legion the base on which all the others where modeled, also Jonson was found around the middle out of the Primarch, 11th of 18(actually 20). A few painted so far as I am splitting my weekly paint work between them and the Mark 3 guys.

A few Corvus pattern aka Mark VI or Beakie suits- rare during the heresy except in the Alpha legion and Raven guard but again nothing in canon says they DA couldn't have them.

The DA veteran squad because you can not have Dark angels without Robes over armor and the set had a combination of non helmets, some Beakies with hoods and even a Mark IV with A hood.

Some death wing terminators in the Indomitus terminator armor but painted in the heresy color scheme with the robed heads from the set not the helmets, the classic Indomitus pattern terminator armor was introduced during the Heresy era so I believe they are ok. I do not think the helmet is good for 30k so I went for the hooded ones with the faces. Will probably use them as a stand in for the Inner Circle Knights Cenobium till Forge world restocks of is them after which I will strip the paint from the the current ones and repaint for 40k.

A Chaplain and another Catraphracti Terminator from a Horus Heresy Space Marine heroes 2 pack that I was able to buy pretty cheap on Amazon.

Eventually will be looking out for more Mark 3 and Mark 4 squads. The Knights Cenobium and Heresy Death wing Companions from Forge world and some vehicles but I have a nice backlog to work through that I am slowly getting through as I usually do 2-4 mini's on my two days off(with every few weeks taking a week off of painting). Also looking out for the forge world upgrade kits for DA helmets, and power weapons to be restocked.

 

I would like to recommend a couple of podcasts:
After Ullanor - A Horus Heresy book club podcast, where one of the hosts are a literary teacher. Sadly put on-hold for the visible future, but they did came as far as Nemesis.
The Age of Darkness Podcast - A Horus Heresy game podcast that also have painting and conversion suggestions by Myles David, of Lil' Legends Painting Studio, and book talk.
Masters of the Forge - a narrative play podcast that discus narrative ways to play your game, discuss lore and/or books and make up house roles for how to play those Chapters/events/monsters.

I think @Anedon should look up the later two and make a search for Malice/Malal because he pop up here and there.


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Good to hear I'll post something later, realised I need to give it a overwork to make it presentable for others.


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Yes, but people have a tendency to think of physical mutations when they see gene-seed flaw. And psychologicla problems because of faults in the gene-seed would if it was up to me be covered in "Mental instability" result.

Now when I think about it so would I personally not have “Geen-seed Flaw” or “Visible Gene-seed Flaw”, instead I would have "physical mutation" and give as example that it could be from flaws in their gene-seed, among other things.

I'm fully with you that players should decide, I'm just suggesting moving the marker for that the declaration of renegade was maybe not justified to outside of the list.

Sorry, I was using "Belief" the way that it's used in the Deathwatch RPG. It's not religious beliefs but cultural/philosophical ones. I give a list of the beliefs in the Deathwatch's create-your-own-Chapter generator in the post here with quotes of the explanation about what they means.

What's "ignore canon whenever you please" in my comment?

The canon material I mentioned outright stat that a successor Chapter could be of Space Wolves or Salamanders linage. And there exist canon art of Space Marine Renegades who were from the Crimson Fist, Dark Angels and Space Wolves Chapters.

I can agree on the former, but at the same time do it feel like the different help/support an captain contra an admiral can offer and the story possibilities they offer makes me want there to be two entries, or maybe just a navy entry with a follow up list in the comment about what rank the ally has

In this case it's not the kind of support but the size - with me working on the assumption that the ally group is of similar size (or at least can offer the same size of help) no matter their elder-faction - and the mind-set of them. They may have different ways of lives but at the same time they have in many ways the same inhuman way of thinking.

Can you expand what you mean here? I don't follow

I don't think so since Yarrik's power claw works even when orks ain't around. And official material has also presented ork shotas as able to function in the hands of non-orks (if even less reliable).

I think you miss read me, and maybe I misunderstood your comment that I answered to. To my understanding did you suggest using the different times for Foundings as a guide to when they fell; responding to that I said that's a bad a idea since some of the Foundings did happen very near to each other, meaning that using the Foundings as a base would make an relatively short time period becoming statistically very likely for the declaration of Reneged to happen, while other Foundings had millennium between them, creating a space of time where no declarations of Reneged happened. I never said, or at least did not mean to say, that a millennia table should be used.

It's your list but from my point would it just look better if it just stated "Eldar faith", with the description mentioning that's likely that they are focusing on Khaine

But at the same time so at least during the HH so are they also idealists who think that the Imperium should not deal with certain things, they dislike cloak and dagger tactics and overly brutal methods. Dorn did not like the ways of his darker brothers and complained about it.

How are they a Lion King Parody?

 

Slightly blurry photo of my Holquin in Terminator armor With 2 mark 3's and my Praetor in the background. This termie has the correct war gear for Holquin(Viridian blade and a Vulkite Charger). Got to get a hair dry and work on straightening out the sword as it came bent. Very happy with how the heraldry on the chest came out on this one.

Also a shot of my work bench( recent birthday gift from my parents)

 

Maybe pysically and psychological mutations are their own catergories, to be based on whatever legion you get. If you don´t get a legion pick one to your likeing?

So another category?

Not in your comment but as far as I know GW basical stance on Salamander and SW succesors pre ultima founding is: "they don´t exist (the Salamanders are excempt from the splitting up and the Space Wolves tried once but it ended in desaster) but if you want to create a succesor chapter to either of these feel free to go on". Cause as far as I know there are no chapters based from these stocks, save the Wolf Brothers who are destroyed, in the lore. And no chapters just hinted as to maybe being don´t really count for this.

Sure so I would leave SW and Salamanders in, just maybe restrict it to a few Squads at best?

Maybe Navy and Army could have their own sublists.

If we make seperate categories for various imperial stuff Eldar should be seperate as well.

A servitor has only basic cybernetics. If you actually play some of the video games like Mechanicus you can see that Servitors move and act in an abrubt barely controled way. Skiitari and comparable cyborg forces don´t have these issues at all cause they are just far more complicated to create and maintain.

But even if they are not around him the Orks now he exists and revere him as kind of a demi god. As for the use of Shootas its either a canon conflict or its cause they are used when around Orks who all believe that these things can work. Or maybe the Whaagh energy that lets the weapon fuction doesn´t end when the Ork dies but stays around for a while before fizzeling out. This would explain why at first they work as intended but soon break.

I mean for there to be a category wich founding the chapter is from and then simply none about when they deserted leave that to the player.

I guess tough I worry this could get misinterpredted into "broad Eldar worship with just a slight favoritism for Khaine". Also on this whole note do you think Vaul could be seen as the true Machine God by a chapter who rejected the emperor?

He didn´t like that they where breaking imperial law and going their own ways. In fact on that Dorn would utterly hate the CL. Just remember how he beat Sigismund half to death when he found out Sigismund had become an emperor worshipper. Dorn would never question Inquistorial orders unless they are stiupid, but not for moral reasons. Also the CL are very pridefull wich isn´t really something the duty bound somber Fists are into. And they encouradge massive own intiative, again something the strictly structured sons of Dorn don´t really do.

• Warleader
  
• Deathspeaker
• Spiritwalker
• Lifebinder
• Pride Leader

Well these titles alone sound as if they are from that movie. The whole Lions thing is kinda silly.

 

The Wolfspear are explicitly a SW Primaris successor chapter. And the hints for the Black Dragons and Storm Giants being Salamanders successors are very, very pointed - with the Salamanders Codex supplement having quotes from Salamanders characters who comment on it.

 

Ok since the discussion has been mostly about successor chapters...


Blood Ravens, which legion was their parent in your opinions.

Popular theories are

Loyalist thousand sons

Loyalist word bearers

Blood Angels

And Raven Guard.

 

@anakincol do you plan to only use the standard colour scheme for the First Legion or to have some references to successors Chapters' colours among your forces?

I suggest having "Physical Flaw" and "Mental Flaw", and in the presentation have that it could be mutations, gene-seed flaws, gene-flaws within their recruitment-stock, something that happened after travelling to long in the Warp, etcetera.

Not really. I was thinking in the presentation, since each list needs a short presentation for what it's about. And maybe each result also need a sort presentation.

Well, if we go by that logic should you remove Lost Legion from possible results since while there are not outright statements that any of them was allowed or did to survive. And most of the stuff people point to as evidence that there exist Lost Legion successors is that some successor Chapters are notably different from their primogenitor in their culture and/or warfare, and therefore have to be of some other gene-seed.

I would have it larger since both Salamanders and Space Wolves companies are larger than the codex standard and we know that among other Chapters have whole companies (who I take to be codex standard sized) fallen.

Unless we are dealing with a warlord or similar do it not feel that a ally in the Imperial Guard would be of much use, most of them just get sent around to where they are needed without anymore knowledge or control (if even that) than they need to do their duty.

I was personally not thinking that there should be a separate category, just a mention in the description about roll a dice to see how high up the support goes.

You have to remember that that the space marines themselves use cybernetics, with the Chapter doing the implants and the repairs, and much of it seems to be high-class (if not master crafted) by Imperial standards.

Aha, I misunderstood you.

I think that there should be some kind of table for when it went renegade, maybe instead have it as:
- Near its creation
- somewhen before halfway between its creation and the now
- halfway between its creation and the now
- somewhen after halfway between its creation and the now
- Less than a half a millennia ago.

(not the best wording there I fully admit)

okey.

Fully admit that I have no idea.

At least the ones I read was he complaining about stuff that was allowed by Imperial Law.

Was not that becouse Sigismund broke his order becouse of flimsy (from Dorn's perspective) resons?

We will have to disagree here.

based on others of his gene-seed, so is pride not something that comes unatural to them.

Based on Praetorian of Dorn do Dorn expect his sons to know what to do and take their own intiatives within their orders when needed, he is not some micromanager.

Eh, to me they sounds like something you would find in any Chapter that you did want to sound a bit tribal or ganger-ish. Change the last one to "Pack Leader" and non of them would sound strange out of a Space Wolf's mouth.

While I personally do quite like the Thousand Sons theory so is there some problems with it since the Blood Ravens don't seems to suffer from any kind of notable gene-seed impurities, problems with their implants, mutations or anything like the Flesh Change or other things that would point to them being from Magnus' unstable linage.

Blood Angels can we rule out since the Blood Ravens don't suffer from anything like the Red Thirst or the Black Rage.

A theory I have seen that's possible is that they are of Dark Angel stock, that would fit with their tendency for secrets, and some of their commanders seemingly deciding that some secrets are better not told.

Most likely so will we never find out since the mystery is so much better for peoples creativity than just establishing them as being of a certain lineage.


Also, regarding the Blood Ravens, I just found out that they seems to be the only named non-Dorn linage Chapter that has an Emperor's Champion. Any crazy theories around this?

 

@Gamiel,

Colors no, but yes on the heraldry

The some of the Canon successor chapters actually take their heraldry from the hexagrammaton Wings of the 30k legion.

The Star Phantons chapter heraldry is the same as the Dreadwing. I have Dreadwing.models to paint so yes they will be represented at least

Others use different iconography that the 30k DA used on their armor for different things

The blades of Vengeance use a sword icon that the DA used to Signify Veteran status(and still do in 40k per the Dark Angels veteran box shoulder bits)

The Dispicples of Caliban use a lion Rampant to honor the Primarch which appears on alot of the Legions vehicles q, Dreadnoughts and Terminator suits.

The Guardians of the covenants heraldry (two crossed swords)is taken from.The original heraldry of the Deathwing(the 40k broken winged sword was adopted after Caliban was destroyed)

So technically yes.

I am also painting a smattering of my DA with a green shoulder pad under the red sword and wings which in the novels is something Jonson allows to those born on Caliban.

The praetor with the shield is painted with the green right shoulder pad but its so dark green it tends to show up black in pictures.

 

Hm Warp mutations usually wouldn´t apply to all memebers also would be similar to "chorting with chaos"

Think so, sure.

This is actually not true. Malcador says explictly that Dorn and Guilliman begged for the lives of the marines of Lost Legions and so had them integrated into their own, but everyones memories of the whole oredeal where blocked. Malcador even briefley restores his memories to Dorn, proving that yes lost Legion member live on in the Ultramarines and Fists as well as their succesors. This is not a fan theory anymore.

Sure but at least for the Wolves the 13th company is explictily refered as lost, and was not rebuild. So I feel any other whole company going rouge would also be not restored.

Sure but a higher or even medium teir commander could provide information and various bits of "equippment that fell of a truck". Or maybe if the renegade chapter is operating in a certian system and a larger theater of war there is always the option of a longer relationship. Lastly if a guard regiment they actually have to conquer a planet and then settle there so maybe the renegades where friends with the Soldiers before they did that and now the world provides a save heaven for them.

And that´s something I wouldn´t want. Comparativley long describtions don´t fit behind the point itself, it destroys the entire symetry and compactness of the chart.

Again compared to what a Skiitari has the tech implants of Space Marines are childs play. You cannot compare that besides the most basic level.

Okay, that could work.

I think that was more about the imperial law being not strict enough by allowing people like Logar or Kurze to exists.

It was more that he basically had his own mind and at least in private defied Dorns orders.

Other than the Soul Drinkers I don´t remember a particulary pridefull Dorn chapter, and the SD are as mentioned not actually Dorn alligned. Instead most Dornian Legions still strive to make up for failing the emperor as in Dorn and his Sons not reaching the final fight in time.

No, but the point is he leaves them to interpret his orders but still expects them to stick to at least the spirit of them. The CL do encouradge that own initative alwas trumps orders.

I would hate if its still TSs after the "Arvida is Janus" reveal that threw years and years of foreshadowing in the trash bin.

My take on them is that they are actually War Hounds, I think its silly to assume the pre Nails War Hounds to have been anything like the post Nails ones. Something that also applies to Angron, who from what we see of him pre Nails was empathetic and able to ease the pain other people where feeling, implying that he was actually a psyker. In fact the WH had a sizable number of psykers as well before they all died off, the last ones in an open rebellion angainst Angron
Things that would fit in this direction would be:
-the Ravens preferance of Chainswords over more sopisticated meele weapons
-the Roman style names
-their pretty rough way of acting(this is actually a major point against TS I feel)
-their agressive style of combat
-their tendency to suffer heavy casualities
-their tendency to recuit from various worlds
-that Khorne seems to be the god they have the most ineraction with, while Slanesh is the one they have the least
-the blood in their namecould also be a subtle refernce, their almost white bone like contrast could ewoke the white of the War Hounds
-their relationship with Governor Derosa ewokes Angrons/Kharns with Lotara Sarrin
-Davian Thule entire arc in Dreadnough form(especially if you fall to chaos in DOW2) is pretty similar to Lord Commander Lhorke, a pre nails War Hound
-the WH/WE took part in the shadow Crusade, something we know if related to Cronus and the Blood Ravens.
-the WH fought over extended periods alongside the WB and the Blood Ravens most notorius chaos enemy is Eliphas a, former, WB
-the names of their ships like: Armageddon, Rertibution, Rage of Erudition, Ravenous Spirtit, or Litany of Fury are somewhat similar to the names of WE ships

So I think it could a cool twist, that instead the legion everyone tought it would be its actually their complete oppositte on the chaos specturm.

Where was this brought up? Could be a mistake tough, like Relic not knowing the difference between Honor Guard and First Company in Chaos Rising.

 

I don’t play the games and I have yet to read a book but dammit I have been wanting to for years now. I can’t find a good beginning section in any of the book stores I’ve been in though and I don’t contribute to Amazon anymore and I’m a dead tree only reader so I stand every chance of never getting a single book read in this vast franchise.

 

Blacklibrary.com

Warhammer 40k has two settings

There is the horus heresy which takes place in the 31st millenium and provides the back story of the Space Marines and the Imperium 56 books and short story collections and counting

Then there are books set in the current 40k setting. There are alot of different ones and they have are more diverse in content. There are books about different groups of Space marines, books about the non space marine Imperial Guard, books about the Sisters of Battle(Space Nuns with Guns!). Books abour the Inquistion, the imperial assassins, the Mechanicus, books about Rogue Trader houses.

Their are books about the Chaos marines.

There are books abour the non human factions, the 3 of the 4 different types of Space elves(the Craftworld Eldar, The Drukhari or Dark Eldar and the newest faction the Ynnari). There is an upcoming book from thr point of view of the ORKS. There are books about the Tau. I am not sure if we have any books wherr a Necron or Tryanid are anything except the antsgonist though.

The books are very varied. If you want to learn about the Primarchs and the Early Space Marine history the Horus Heresy stuff is what you want. If you want to learn about the regular humans of the setting try the Guants Ghosts, or Ciaphas Cain books both of which follow Commisars and Imperial Guard Regiments.

Go on youtube there are several very good Youtubers who do lore centric videos because they love the setting. I recommend 40k theories and Luetin.

Want comedy try Bruva Alphabusa's if the the Emperor had a text to speech device, which was my intro into 40k and covers alot lore while simultanously being a loving parody and occasionslly doing its own thing.

If you like darker comedy and lore try Majorkill, he covers both 40k and the Warhammer Fantasy(the medieval setting) but does it as more of an edgy internet guy way.

I got started because youtube suggested if the emperor had a text to speech device to me after watching DBZ abridged. This lead me to other youtubers. Then i bought a few books. I May painted my first mini.

I find that painting therapeutic as a way of winding down from my job which can be stressful.

 

There are so many books you can pick and choose what interests you. Even in the horus heresy series which is massive alot of the books cover the same time period from different perspectives.

For the books.

The first novel i read was Helsreach a story about the Black Templars defending a city from Orks.

Later i saw a cover with a hooded Marine looking like a Knight called Legacy of Caliban and it began my love of the Dark Angels chapter and followed that with its precursor Knights of Caliban. I wanted to learn more about the early history referenced in those books i was pointed to the first horus heresy novel horus rising. I was told to read books 1-5 and then i could star jumping around to other parts of the heresy that interested me. I did that and then moved to to thr Dark Anglels centric stories in the Heresy. I have also been reading the Siege of Terra quadrology within the later part of the heresy as i still like the Imperial Fists, Rogal Dorn and Sigismund(the Imperial fist who founded the Black Templars). I also read the boom Valdor about the Custodes because it gives alot of information about the begining of the setting.

I luckily have a games workshop store in my town in New Jersey. I went and bought a couple boxes of Primaris Marines in and painted them Dark Angels and got hooked. Later i discovered there is a subgame with its own rule for the Heresy era and since August i have switched to building an army for that game(i will eventually switch back to the later setting too)

 

My town has a Warhammer store as well and it has a 'Getting Started' section for the books. (Not sure if the Black Library website has the same thing but I'd look for it). My starting point was Dan Abnett's Eisenhorn trilogy (https://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/eisenhorn-trilogy.html).

 

Yeah I just need to find a good entry point. The series is extremely intimidating for a newbie while shopping/browsing the shelves. I don’t even really know what I’m looking at when I do it even with list in them. I try to find omnibus’s but never have any luck.

 

Getting hardcopy or.paperback omni's can be hear or expensive. Games Workshop and the Black library have focused on releasing digitally especially with the novels . Places like Barnes and Noble really have the omni's in stock and there selection is all over the place I'm terms.of what they have.

To you like comic books?

Next month Marvel comics is releasing the first issue in a series staring Marneus Calgar, Chaptermaster of the Ultramarines(known affectionately amongst fans as Papa Smurf) that could be a good place start.

If you want to look into the Space Marines try something like Ultramarines omnibus Or.The recent Crusade and other stories(though that may be digital only) both written to give good intros to the settinf. Another good one is hellsreach but I would read it with The lexicanium website up on your computer. https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page, to help with things you may not not about, the lexicanum is preferred to the fandom.com war hammer wiki by the community as the lex is more accurate.

Try to find The novel Horus rising if you want to learn about the backstory as it is the first in the heresy series and does a good job of explaining thing via the protector Gabriel Loken and his interactions with other Marines, Horus and several of the Primarchs and several regular humans who become recurring characters in then series.

If you want Imperial guard try Eisenhorn it was written to be an intro into the setting as well.

 

Nah I don’t do comics. I’m about to just give in and have my sis in law order I guess maybe the Horus Omni if I can find it on Amazon. It’s just an intimidating franchise to consider trying to get into and it’s only getting bigger. I just don’t want to be all over the place timeline wise and getting myself lost or spoiled if I make a mistake.

 

Its expensive in paperback for the omni on Amazon.

Maybe just try horus rising at first and see if you like it before committing to an omni.

Last night I read possibly one of the most metal things in all of 40k.



This was Angron primarch of the World Eaters before he fell to Chaos. He later like most of the traitor primarchs became a Daemon Prince becoming this.



When the traitor legions arrive to attack Terra(Earth)

Angron surfs A 20km long Gloriana battleship into orbit

 

I hate being such an annoying newbie, but what’s a better starting point out of Horus, Gaunt, Inferno, Primarchs, Terra or Ciaphas? I want novels not comics or graphic novels. I’m on Black Library and my head is just spinning. Ugh

and it doesn’t look like all the books are even on there... I can only just get a handful to pop up. I thought this was the home page so wth?

 

Since you don't know what you really want to read do I suggest starting with Inferno (which is a short story collection) or to pick up not-collected short stories so don't you have so much to read to have a finished story and can see different aspects of the 40k-verse

I don't seem to have this problem, but than again I know how to navigate their homepage.

 

I've never used the Black Library website. If I don't get the books locally I use Amazon UK. (I know some of the books have special editions you can only get in the shops but I'm not too concerned about that). You could try the US Amazon site.
One thing that is fairly new is the Warhammer Crime series. There are currently two books out - Bloodlines, which is a novel; and No Good Men, which is a short story collection. The novel isn't bad. I have the short story book but haven't read it yet.