PT In your head canon, Did Darth Maul die in TPM?.

it`s just saying like Ventress, Hondo,Ahsoka didn`t exist because you never hear about them in the movies, we don`t question how grievous created or how dooku turn to the dark side despite the fact we never see it how these things happened so this is the same.

 

I never said I was advocating his resurrection or those character for that matter as having never existed per se, as that would be saying that I'm asserting my personal approach to the saga as the ultimate canon I expect everyone to abide by. Which I'm not. That would be crazy, arrogant, and unfair on a number of levels. It just comes down to me personally preferring, feel free to think differently on this, to look at the saga on its own terms as a standalone piece first and part of a multi-media franchise (with extra shows, comics, games, etc a number of which don't get me wrong are good) second. (Keep in mind that I make no exceptions on this front. For me with regards to the movies I also view Boba Fett as having died in ROTJ as well for instance in spite of what extra-film materials have said) That being said I take absolutely no issue with people giving stuff like TCW the same level of reverence. It's their opinion and it's not like it hurts my viewing experience in any way. There are just certain continuity things I find a bit harder to accept or just personally don't care for. Though I would say that I do think on the whole from what I've seen of it the show is good and fun to watch don't get me wrong. Basically I easily take into account the movies whilst watching the show but have a harder time doings so completely the other way around if that even begins to make any kind of sense. Though I don't get the comparison to Grievous and Dooku to be honest. They don't give us specifics, but we know that in the broadest sense that those things (becoming a cyborg or falling to the dark side) happened given what we see of and hear about them. Nothing to assume there beyond what caused such things. (You can make guesses at least for Dooku's fall whilst we do never really get a hint at what made Grievous a cyborg. Though I digress, that's another topic) Maul was left on the image of following down a shaft split in a half which provides a succinct fate on screen after fulfilling his narrative purposes (Revealing the existence of the Sith and thus rattling the Jedi, killing Qui-Gon which keeps him from being the mentor Anakin needs, being Obi-Wan's big test to show he's ready to become a Jedi Knight) never to be seen again or talked about being out there somewhere. (This piece of information of his surival ultimately not really enriching my viewing experience of TPM, AOTC, or ROTS in any way) And given that more often times than not I just watch them as a trilogy and have for years without his "CLONE WARS" return I cannot help but just think in those terms without it. Again, that's not me making any big declarations of canon or pushing how I view these things on others. I'm just trying to explain how and why I view the series as I do.

 

Here are the actual screencaps to look at and wonder: http://starwarsscreencaps.com/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-1999/82/

 

As Finn would say, just use the Force! There was probably some blood and oxygen still in his brain...he just needs to focus! Bring those halves back together, and there ya go!

I have only seen the first 2 seasons of TCW, and I think that seeing him again would serve as a bit of a credibility hit. Just seems a cheap and easy route. It also serves to make the galaxy feel so much smaller, similar to how it feels when everyone is related or knows one another in some way. The difference there though, is that you can suspend disbelief that you're just watching a snapshot in time of a particular group of people in which there are no "coincidences", just an end result that you can trace back to an origin point that just happened to be filmed. Someone like Maul is an outlier whose role could be filled by anyone (primarily because we weren't allowed to become emotionally invested in him in TPM), and so to bring him back only looks gratuitous.

 

Keycube

Sith or not, he looked as if he fainted when Kenobi gave him a bodycut. Or was he deliberately pretending?

 

That's a big difference for the entire Saga....

 

He's dead to me. Obi Wan severed him in half. I didn't even know he was written in a cartoon as being alive till I read this thread since I've never seen those…but it sounds really ridiculous to me. Cmon the dude was cut literally in half and fell apart as he fell down that shaft. I take what I was shown in the movies to be cannon and what I saw in the TPM was Darth Mauls death.

 

When the movies shows Maul`death? Or even talks about it? All we see that he gets cut in half. Tcw didn't make a re-make about it, he still lacks the half of his body in the series.

 

For the sake of simplicity, I just roll with retcons in fictional universes. Maul's return has been handled deftly and the resulting story arcs have been excellent, so it really doesn't take anything away from the universe, TPM or Obi-Wan's achievement. He still took down a Sith Lord.

 

Maul's popularity by the fans and media was always genuine, the character would become very iconic and survive for years even among Lucasfilm employees who were looking for ways to bring back Darth Maul since 1999's TPM. So I don't think the character ever "died". He had a longevity that FAR exceeded his screen time. Vader himself had a bit part in ANH and Lucas never originally intended for this character be Anakin Skywalker and all of that kinda thing - Lucas evolved his storyline as time went on, so him bring Maul back and giving him a family and a tragedy like he did Anakin/Vader, is quite telling that he would become infatuated with these side characters himself.

Maul was visibly alive and conscious after he was cut in half, neither he nor Vader "fainted". Kenobi barely managed to defeat Maul and only did so with the Lucas Force jump, and he got taken down on the TCW by Maul. Kenobi managed a take down of Vader who pulled the Lucas Force jump and he got cut to pieces and burned to a cinder - but again Kenobi failed in killing yet another Sith Lord. So Kenobi never killed a Sith Lord. Maul mocks Kenobi being a Jedi Master as he was essentially elevated to that rank do the fact he supposedly destroyed him , a Sith Lord back on Naboo. The Jedi never found Maul's body on Naboo, so he was presumed dead. Infact there is no dialogue supporting that they ever recovered the fallen Sith Lord's body or much of anything as they did not know whether the Sith Lord Kenobi supposedly killed was the Master or the Apprentice. So its even questionable as to whether they ever got any intel from the Nute Gunray about Darth Sidious as the Jedi was just as ignorant about the Sith at the end of the movie as they were at the beginning. My own theory was that Dooku went searching for the Sith Master to find out how his apprentice could've been slayed by such a warrior and to maybe avenge Jinn's death but instead became fully seduced by the Sith Master instead. Odd thing about about SOD, Dooku never once mentioned Jinn, and in the prior episodes of the TCW Dooku himself viewed Darth Maul a great Sith Lord:

"Soon, your powers will rival that of the great Sith Lord Darth Maul. "

Filoni originally talked about how much the fans loved Darth Maul, he was at first unable to use Maul because he had "died", so they created Savage Opress - after Maul's TCW debut he'd go on to further elaborate that Savage was basically a substitute of sorts then Lucas became very interested and involved with the characters and storylines and decided, in part because of the fans, to bring back Darth Maul. For Lucas to do something like that, as rarely he would admit he made a mistake and even go so far as to correct it or make good a mistake of his, brought back Darth Maul - and the character would play a long term game in the saga. He's was not brought back to be offed again 2 minutes later.

 

Qui-Gon and Maul are the best two characters in the PT and should not have been killed off in the Episode 1.

 

Well, watched the TCW episode re-introducing Darth Maul last night but still wonder how he could have escaped Naboo in half-a-piece. There are so many "high improbabilities" to be hand waved away which really stress credibility, IMHO.

TPM screenplay excerpt:

The SITH LORD smiles as he goes in for the kill. At the last moment,
OBI-WAN jumps up out of the pit, calls QUI-GON's lightsaber to hi, throwing
DARTH MAUL off. The young JEDI swings with a vengeance, cutting the SITH
down. DARTH MAUL falls into the melting pit to his death.

 

It was a flesh wound.

 

The comic The Clone Wars: The Sith Hunters covers that, in flashback.

Wookieepedia summary of relevant events:


Through his hate and will to live, as well as his hatred against Kenobi, he reached out with the Force and grabbed an air vent.[8] He went down the reactor shaft and landed in water. The Sith Lord was then dumped into a container, which was taken to Lotho Minor. As he lay submerged, he fell into unconsciousness, cursing Kenobi.[37]
Arriving at his destination, Maul woke up. He activated his lightsaber and carved his way out of the container, screaming with rage. He struggled to move on through the junkyard world. Soon, he encountered insects the size of his arm and managed to crush one with his own left hand before using his teeth to rip a leg off. But as he started eating, the Sith Lord heard a scream coming from his right.[37]
A sly and mysterious Anacondan named Morley was slithering away in fright from one of Lotho Minor's gigantic machines, the Fire-breather. Maul threw his lightsaber with the Force directly at the Fire-breather's head, piercing it through. The machine instantly fell to the ground, the fire from its mouth extinguished. His weapon returned to him, Maul once again blacked out. Morley wrapped the Zabrak in his coils and brought him into the caves of the planet, which would eventually become his sanctuary.[37]
Maul reawakened and, with all of his anger, was able to use the Force to acquire a six-legged arachnid-like cybernetic apparatus to replace his lost lower body.[37]

 

That's kind of silly. It's a cool storyline, but it messes too much with the climax of TPM for me.

 

My feelings on Darth Mauls survival are complicated. I certainly don't think he should have been resurrected, his death in TPM was fine to me. And the idea of his survival rubs me the wrong way. But I do like what they did with him after it was done. Ideally I think he should have stayed dead after episode I, and it is the primary disconnect between the movie and the Clone Wars for me. When I watch the movies my head cannon says he's dead, because it just seems awkward for me to see how he might have survived. When I watch the Clone Wars or related material, it is a bit easier to accept.

 

Maul is dead in the 6 film canon, but is alive in the Filoniverse animation canon. Disney can bring him back in their new canon of movies they started. That would be cool for the Disney Star Wars fans.

 

Lucas actually wanted to make a statement by having Maul cut in half - to show that he IS dead beyond a shadow of doubt, so bringing him back was stupid (especially HOW they did it - a clone would have been okay IMO), but not as stupid as only giving him two lines and then killing him off.

Watching the death scene last night, he could have easily have cut Kenobi down (sure he was surprised, but, Jedi speeds and reflexes considered, he had more than ample time), and there were many moments he could have cut their limbs off in the same way Kenobi cut off the far more powerful Anakin's off - when they jumped onto the ledge/bridge that Maul was on, and took a moment to catch their balance, he could have cut at least one of them down at the knees or shins.

 

Said show is and always has been canon to the films. It had nothing to do with Filoni and everything to do with Lucas saying, "Let's bring him back".

 

Just because its canon doesn't make it the same continuity. I think Lucas was going for a duality, as he accepted Boba dying in ROTJ, but living in the outside of film media. Perhaps he also accepted my dying in TPM and being dead though the 6 films while being alive in the spinoff cartoon show. Seems like many TCW fans refuse to accept this duality, much like old EU fans.

In TPM, Maul is clearly a corpse falling down that shaft, the blank lifeless dead expression on his face, his open dead eyes that don't move, the way his limbs bounced around wildly without conscious control of any kind, the fact he is cut in freakin two halfs, etc. Heck, there is even a close up of Maul's face as the life leaves him! There is no in universe way to explain how he is suddenly alive and it diminishes TPM. It was a cheap tie in, cross promotion between the 3D release of TPM and TCW. Killing Maul wasn't a mistake, bringing him back after clearly dying is the mistake.

 

You blame the fans, but the fans aren't at fault here. Lucas had been explicit that the cartoon was canon. He didn't say anything about it being EU, nor existing in a similar but separate continuity. He never used the canon levels that Rothman and the others created. He just said there is my universe and their universe. And when Kennedy took over, she understood this. That's why when the decision was made to jettison the old EU, she didn't include TCW. Not because Filoni begged her not to, but because Lucas considered the show to be part of the films.

 

He considered it to be the same canon, which doesn't say anything about it being part of the films. I only heard him refer to the show as being canon, nothing else. Lucas created stories with little to no regard for continuity which in itself renders the idea of a singular continuity in Star Wars void. Maul did die in the films but lives in the cartoons, hence he has a dual fate like Boba Fett before him, the duality. It isn't even just two lines of continuity but many different lines make up Star Wars. As I said, there is even a close up of Maul's face where we see the life go out of him before his body falls down the shaft. Frankly, TCW did a very bad and lazy hand wave of how he resurrected from death. He is suddenly some crazy guy with a cyborg spider body on a junk planet, no explanation of how he got there or how he got a cyborg body, etc, it was poorly handled, but such a poor idea probably can't be handled right anyway.



In that close up you can clearly see he has expired, all of his facial muscles have relaxed due to loss of life. His body shorty tumbles over as it goes limp from death.

The character writing was decent for that episode of TCW, but the underlying idea of bringing Maul back from the grave was beyond stupid and no amount of writing could save it. If Lucas really felt strongly that TCW is part of his films, he could have gone back to TPM during its 3D release and altered the scene where Obi defeats him and have some signs of life in Maul, but Lucas didn't which shows he didn't feel strongly at all that the films and TCW have continuity with each other. Often when a movie is adapted into a spinoff TV show, especially an animated one, the story is adapted and altered, and story elements changed to adapt the story from a movie format into a TV series format. Clear examples include Stargate SG1 and the Beetlejuice cartoon, TCW is no different from changing and adapting story elements to fit a TV series format. Personally, I feel Star Wars is too grand for the TV series format, only the major film format does it justice IMO.

 

Slicer87

Good points but there is one I find fault with: How can you possibly compare the demise of Boba Fett with the demise of Darth Maul?

Boba Fett hit Jabba's sailing barge with the side of his body (had it been the head the stuntman might have died...) and then fell inside the Sarlacc with most equipment and head protection intact. And we know from Threepio's speech that the Sarlacc doesn't kill its victims instantly. As a matter of fact I find these claims that Boba Fett died vastly exagerrated, there is really no onscreen evidence with substance, neither in the screenplay:

Boba blasts
off, flying over the second skiff like a missile, smashing against the
side of the huge Sail Barge and sliding away into the pit. He screams
as his armored body makes its last flight past Lando and directly into
the mucous mouth of the Sarlacc. The Sarlacc burps.

 

Slowly digested over a 1000 years or cut in half? The former seems more believable to survive imo.

 

l dont believe that still some people questioning the survival of Maul by real world standarts.... This is a science fiction movie guys , you believe that people shooting lightning from their hands or choking them from another planet but you dont believe Maul can survive with using the Force? Nice.