Inter species "Relations" how much is too much to take seriously?

Scientifically speaking, a "theory" is a description of our current understanding of the way something works that serves as the basis for all of our work upon it because, so far, it works. No one's ever seen an electron, but your lights turn on. In fact, a whole lot of physics and chemistry is "theoretical." This probably isn't the place to start an argument about the merits of evolution, but I thought I'd address your understanding of the word "theory," if only because for the purposes of this discussion of Star Wars biology we only really have our understanding of biology to go by.

I get the feeling that human origins in Star Wars are much, much, much older than they are on Earth.

Which is all okay until you begin applying dumb stuff to things we know, like humans. There's no reason to suspect that being blue couldn't help another species somehow, or is a consequence of some other biological function that does, but we know that it doesn't help humans.

::nerdrage::

 

I always thought the Blue either came from genetic tinkering (In which it was either useful, or just a by product)

Or it came from something on the planet, in the food or water that just interacted with human biology to make melonin blue.

 

Artificial insofar as they are "created." The Cylons made machines, except the parts are bones and skin and fleshy sacks instead of metal and wire. In other words, they made bodies. Laura Roslin's body would not have accepted the blood transfusion if it was not human blood.

Well actually, Baltar can't think of any way to differentiate Cylon and Human DNA until Six tells him. And of course Hera counts: she's the product of a successful genetic coupling. What I meant about the doctors is that the parts don't just appear human - they are subject to all of our medical treatment, and their tissue is compatible with ours.
The skinjobs brain is based on slica pathways.

"Based on." What's more, that's the same article that says there might not actually be very much silica in their heads at all.

Well, she's fertile, which means there was no problem in genetic compatibility. And again, she's only as much of a hybrid as you are, as the crux of the show's finale is that we, here, on Earth, are descendants of a Cylon.

They are living beings made in our image and with very few differences. Again: a completely normal baby was born from the union of a Cylon and a Human. There are no salient differences - the Cylons created lifeforms that imitate us so well that we can breed with them. It's kind of the whole point. They are an artificial subspecies of humanity.

Which is not what we're talking about.

 

I agree that some theories against evolution are silly (the more silly they get the more religion infused they are). And I am not against evolution I have to say, just against some of Darwins connections he made. Minerva Experiment I heard about... hmm maybe I read about it, can't recall and need to investigate now, thx for pointing me towards it!


About planet of the apes: both sequel and original I meant, though I prefer the original.

 

So how 'bout them Theelins, eh?

 

I read somewhere and really like the idea that the humanoid body plan (biped, two arms, opposable thumbs, a centralized central nervous system protected by a case, all of the sensor organs concentrated in the top anterior), simply one of the best body plans that exists, and that nature should tend towards creating that system. Consider, too, that many animals share at least some of those traits.

By that rationale, it wouldn't be uncommon for alien species to develop that look reasonably similar to us, though with obvious differences based on the nature of their world and the unique evoluntionary pressures there.

 

Do remember that what you read was written by a humanoid.

 

Yeah.

Like Karo, I'm always a bit sceptical about the idea of two-arms, two-legs being the inevitable end result of natural selection. It's possible, sure, but the problem is that it's a bit like trusting old colonial literature that naturally always trumpeted the imperial capital above native cultures, so the question arises as to how much is just wishful thinking on our part about humans being "the best" biomechanical structure.

 

Many animals on our planet share a similar body plan, because all vertebrate animals evolved from the animals with that body shape that hauled themselves out of the ocean. It's why Avatar doesn't make sense: the Na'vi look like us, while everything else on their world is a smooth skinned, bioluminescent, six limbed, four eyed creature that breathes through holes in its chest. The Na'vi body plan looks

Given that the "unique evolutionary pressures" are so similar to our own planet that the flora and fauna even fall into Earth categories like "reptile" and "mammal," and results in humanoids. No amount of evolutionary pressure is going to give a Trandoshan female breasts.

Really, its one of those scifi things that probably just shouldn't be explained.

 

On the issue of Trandoshan's evolving breasts, I put forward the theory that, in ages past, when the first Trandoshan crawled out of the big black lagoon, the high priests among them had a Force Vision, in which they besaw the beauty of the Zeltrons they would one day meet in the far distant future, leading to the death of all first borns who were found lacking in mammaries, such that one day when the Trandoshans' ancestors reached to the stars, they would themselves be found attractive to those future space goddesses, as in accordance with their ancient prophecies.

Or, in other words: a [Force] wizard did it.

 

why make it so complicated Zor?

they wear holographic bras that simulate tits with a forcefield to make them touchable scifi after all

 

Yeah, even though the colonial literature went through its orientalist phases as well, the general assumption was that London or Paris was the end result and that everywhere else was just a stepping stone.

Of course, that didn't stop the colonialists from enjoying the women while commenting on the bodies of male noble savages. Speaking of which, back to this thread.

 

For example, this:
[image=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Dinosauroid.jpg]
Ugh, no.

In 1982 this guy named Dale Russel wondered what would have happened if dinosaurs hadn't gone extinct. He conjectured that the more intelligent species, like Troodon would have evolved sapience and gone on to become cultural, sentient beings that look like the above. He even figured that they'd evolve navels and give birth to live young, since placentas promote brain growth, and that its already somewhat-dextrous-for-a-dinosaur hands would become more like ours. The major problem is the reason humans look like we do is because our tool using ancestors already looked like this...
[image=http://www.maxbusboom.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/homo_habilis.jpg]
...whereas troodon looked like this:
[image=http://images.nationalgeographic.com/wpf/media-live/photos/000/007/cache/troodon_789_600x450.jpg]
There doesn't seem to be much reason for a body plan as successful as the theropod dinosaur one to have changed much (it didn't for hundreds of millions of years). In fact, as theropod dinosaurs did evolve, their tool using descendants came to look like this instead:
[image=http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/raven01.jpg]
[image=http://www.wildeyeview.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/Southern-Ground-Hornbill_9751-523x369.jpg]
Evolution isn't a march towards becoming human.

 

If your talking about the Chiss, then they are evolved from a Human colony originally. The planet evolved them over time due to certain minerals, ice, natural phnomone, etc. The eyes as well.

Daala and her Bothan bug the hell out of me...

 

nice examples there. while I agree with you, I still want to point out that, while unlikely, it is still possible for dinosaurs to evolve into a more humanoid form that must not be fully humanoid. think Ssi Ruuvi f.e. who can use tools, build starships and the like.

other ways towards more humanesque reptilians might be genetic manipulation or mixing, etc. way beyond our modern knowledge. be it that the reptilian intelligent species manipulates its own genes (fiction example V tv series) or be it that another culture experiments with them and creates a mix, a crossspecies that continues to evolve on its own then.

though as Jurassic Parc liked to say: Nature finds a way. I am not opposed to reptiles evolving into human shapes. But I like your points and the cutting down a bit on humanocentric viewpoints that the theories behind that furthered.

 

[image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060102002021/starwars/images/7/73/Ooroo.jpg]

Who says you need to evolve opposable digits to develop tools? Tentacles, baby. Tentacles.

 

[image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080711174020/starwars/images/thumb/1/1d/Agorn.jpg/250px-Agorn.jpg]

"I can fashion a decent holocron."

 

I always thought thoes species must be hard around Human and Near-human females to be around.

Imagine a female Jedi apprentice being taught proper saber from, by such a Jedi master physicly correcting her stance and arm placment , giving her a decent wack to the abdomin to make sure the proper muscles are taut.

And the Male apprentices just bearly holding back the laughter/ tenticle "Adult vid" jokes.

the teasing must be horrible.

 

well, ever wondered about the childhood of Shapeshifter species? do so now! I wonder how their shifting abilities developed and to what extent and how that plays into evolution, if considering it could be real.

 

Personally, I've always found the natural appearance of Shi'ido to be nonsensical. I'd have much preferred if they were literally just an amorphous blob of goo that simply took humanoid form when around humanoids, rather than their natural form already being some gangly humanoid that apparently doesn't have any internal organs or skeletal structure. It's fine with Clawdites as all they really do is make minor adjustments to their external features to blend in. But Shi'ido can turn into anything, so their natural form should just be a blob.

 

I disagree there. I like the Shiido picture even if it does not make sense scientifically. one of the more original looking alien designs! and I always imagined the image shows them while shaping, not their 100% true form but close to it.


Also Clawdites can shape more than just minor stuff. Zam Wesell comic has her shape into a Dug! and given enough training they can do more than the average Clawdite can do too one day.


I think shapeshifters do not at all have to be blobby. I rather imagine shapeshifting to either have to do with some reptilian treats like changing color etc. that exist in our world too already, as well as a natural evolution beyond the natural species body form. Kinda the next step might be shapeshifting, and after it ascension to another plane.

 

Referencing hornbills in a dinosauroid discussion? Do I detect another Tetrapod Zoology reader?

 

It warms my heart as well.

Though I must nitpick and point out that our ancestors that were contemporaneous with the dinosaurs didn't look very human either, to say nothing of the earlier relative like dimetrodon or sponges.