Is Akira Kurosawa the key? Ep 3

Just thought I would post some screen caps in reference to my earlier post about Sanshiro Sugata. First let me preface this scene so that you?ll understand what you?re looking at. Sugata has just come back from beating up a bunch of street-fighters, this after having just learned how to fight, and his master says to him:

---

[b]TEACHER:[/b] Well, you must feel good after having thrown so many people around.
[b]SUGATA:[/b] I?m sorry.
[b]TEACHER:[/b] I rather wanted to see you in action. You?re very strong, really very strong indeed. Maybe you are even stronger than I am now. But, you know, there is very little similarity between your kind of judo and my kind of judo. Do you know what I mean? You do not know how to use it, you do not know the way of life. And to teach judo to someone who does not know that is like giving a knife to a madman.
[b]SUGATA:[/b] But I know it.
[b]TEACHER:[/b] That is a lie. To act as you do, without meaning or purpose, to hate and attack?is that the way of life? No?the way of life is loyalty and love. This is the natural truth of heaven and earth. It is the ultimate truth and only through it can a man face death.
[b]SUGATA:[/b] I can face death. I?m not afraid to die right now, if you order it.
[b]TEACHER:[/b] Shut up, you?re nothing but a common street-fighter.
[b]SUGATA:[/b] I?m not afraid to die.
[b]TEACHER:[/b] Then go and die.[hr][/blockquote]Then suddenly Sugata goes and jumps into the lotus pond behind the temple. In the middle of that pond is post sticking out of the water, and he clings to this post like it is his staff of life. In other words, instead of proving that he is not afraid to die, once in the pond, it is apparent that all he can prove is that he is not afraid to live.
[image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/SUG001.JPG]

This causes him some confusion and he stays there clinging to that post overnight. When the sun starts to rise the next morning he finds himself staring at an open lotus.
[image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/SUG004.JPG] [image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/SUG005.JPG]

At first he is just staring at the flower, then suddenly he understands?he sees the poignancy of life and is enlightened. To Zen Buddhists the lotus represents compassion, and Sugata becomes aware that a man can only face death squarely after he has attained a profound compassion for all life. What?s more, it?s this image of the lotus that helps Sugata defeat the bad guy at the end of the film.
[image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/SUG009.JPG] [image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/SUG008.JPG]

I can?t help but think that Luke is similarly enlightened when he learns that Vader is his father. He doesn?t want to believe it, but it?s true, and that is the first time Luke feels true compassion for his father. What happened to this man that made him this way?
[image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/ESB006.JPG] [image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/ESB001.JPG]

And just like the image of the lotus saves Sugata, so too does the image of Luke?s confrontation with Vader?his mechanical hand?rescue Luke as he was beginning to give in to the dark side in [i]Jedi[/i].
[image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/ROJ003.JPG] [image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/ROJ004.JPG]

 

this thread has taught me 3 things:

1)Lucas draws influence from a great many sources, most of which can be found with a bit of digging.

2) i need to rent some akira kurosawa movies

3) it's highly possible that anakin will suffer many scars from the emperor's lightning hands in a scene that reminds us of return of the jedi. it's likely he'll raise his blade in imitation of obi-wan's deflective tactic, but Palpatine's power will be too much to stop with a saber. when he watches luke get fried on the ground, he remembers the excruciating experience, and realizes that luke will not die, but literally become the next darth vader, if he doesn't do something about it.

kudos, TK327, for this intelligent thread in a sea of baseless speculation threads.

 

I too have to praise this thread. So far, I have only seen five Kurosawa films: Rashomon, Yojimbo, the Seven Samurai, Kagemusha, and Ran. For someone like myself (who is shamefully ignorant of the majority of Kurosawa?s work), this thread is very educational.

Not knowing what happened to his wife and child, Anakin will immediately realize what Jar Jar says is true, and in his final act of compassion, Anakin will let Obi-Wan go so that Luke can escape the fate that befell all the other Jedi hopefuls?that of annihilation.

I have disagreed with this theory before. No matter what the circumstance, I have a hard believing that Ankain would knowingly allow Obi-wan to escape with his son. For one, it ?s clear from the OT that Anakin hates Obi-wan. By the end of Episode III, I don?t think Anakin will want Obi-wan anywhere near his offspring. Moreover, this gesture would require a great deal of patience on Anakin's part. I don't believe that Anakin would simply stand by in the time between Episode III and ANH. At the beginning of ESB, Vader is very intent on finding his son. He may not have gone down to the surface of Tattooine in ANH, but he did go down to Hoth, believing Luke would be there. If Anakin knew his son were alive, he would want to raise the boy himself.

 

I have a theory that Bad Radio likes Kurosawa films. I don't know why I think this, just call it a hunch.

Edit: By the way, still waiting on what happens to Padme in Episode III when using Kurosawa as a guide.

 

E Chu Ta, I believe that Anakin learned the value of patience inbetween EpII & III and was only hell-bent on finding Luke in the ESB because he wanted to get to him before the emporer did. The emporer wanted to destroy Luke, Vader wanted to convert him and in some sense save him from the emporer.

Maybe he sensed that the emporer was intending on making Luke an offer to replace Vader, thus Vader decided to make the offer first and replace the emporer.

I still believe Anakin knew about Luke! I just do. Our perspective on the OT will change with EPIII. If am wrong, well, I'll eat crow feet.


Respectfully,

Prometheus

 

>>>> For one, it ?s clear from the OT that Anakin hates Obi-wan. Moreover, this gesture would require a great deal of patience on Anakin's part.

It?s not clear whether Anakin hates Obi-Wan because we, the audience, are not privy to Anakin?s thoughts. We can?t even interpret his facial expressions because they?re hidden behind a mask. All we have to go on is Anakin?s actions. And true, Anakin does kill Obi-Wan. But does that mean Anakin hates him? Or does it mean that Anakin perceives Obi-Wan as merely a stepping stone towards achieving his goal of becoming ?the most powerful Jedi ever?? Hate might be a motivator, but I choose to believe Anakin?s ambition is what drives him to kill Obi-Wan. Anakin has to prove to himself that he is more powerful than Obi-Wan Kenobi.

>>>> By the end of Episode III, I don?t think Anakin will want Obi-wan anywhere near his offspring. [?] If Anakin knew his son were alive, he would want to raise the boy himself.

Do you really think Anakin even remotely entertains the prospect of raising Luke himself? We all know that any Jedi?be it a potential Jedi or a fully-trained Jedi?represents a threat to the Emperor. For Anakin to raise Luke would be impossible since that would mean Palpatine would also know about Luke. As a result, Palpatine would want Luke dead. It should be noted that, from what we see of Anakin in the OT, he sees himself as a kind of person to whom only certain actions, certain alternatives are open. Anakin doesn?t even give thought to standing up to Palpatine and probably believes his only option, if he doesn?t want Luke to suffer the same fate as all the other Jedi, and despite any ill feelings Anakin might harbor for Obi-Wan, is to let Obi-Wan take Luke away. Also, he probably thinks that he can keep Palpatine from discovering Luke or that he will be able to control the situation if Palpatine were to find out about Luke.

>>>> At the beginning of ESB, Vader is very intent on finding his son. He may not have gone down to the surface of Tattooine in ANH, but he did go down to Hoth, believing Luke would be there.

Echoing what Prometheus just said, I think the reason Anakin is searching for Luke at the outset of Empire is to get to him before Palpatine does. In other words, this could be an example of Anakin attempting to ?control the situation? as I mentioned above. Furthermore, Anakin?s timing couldn?t be anymore precise. He realizes that Obi-Wan can no longer protect Luke, and coupled with the fact that Luke is ham-fistedly using the Force, thus generating the ?great disturbance in the Force? that Palpatine mentions, that?s why Anakin begins his search for Luke long before the Emperor commands him too.

This is also at the heart of why Anakin never goes down to Tatooine in ANH. He knows both Luke and Obi-Wan are down there, and the last thing Anakin wants to do is to inadvertently reveal Luke?s location to the Emperor. So he chooses not to go down to the planet?s surface, hoping the fact that Princess Leia?s ship was heading towards Tatooine is in no way connected to the fact that Obi-Wan is hiding there. Anakin is deluding himself, though, and has to come to terms with the reality he has created when Obi-Wan shows up on the Death Star. ?Escape is not his plan,? Anakin says of Obi-Wan. ?I must face him alone.? Anakin believes that Obi-Wan is there to confront him. It?s even possible that Anakin feels Obi-Wan has come to finish him off since Anakin is the only other person who knows about Luke. If so, this adds another dimension to their confrontation, especially since Obi-Wan does not kill Anakin and instead disappears right before his eyes. Like Kurosawa, Lucas is not at all interested in what circumstances have made the hero what he is; he is completely interested in what the hero makes out of what circumstances have made of him. What will Anakin do now that Luke?s well-being is solely in his hands?

 

It?s not clear whether Anakin hates Obi-Wan because we, the audience, are not privy to Anakin?s thoughts. [...]All we have to go on is Anakin?s actions. [...] Hate might be a motivator, but I choose to believe Anakin?s ambition is what drives him to kill Obi-Wan

I agree that Anakin views Obi-wan as a rival. But, there is another level as well. In Anakin's mind, its not simply that he must win and Obi-wan must lose. It's that Anakin must win and Obi-wan has to lose and be completely humiliated. bad radio, I was basing my reasoning on Vader's actions. Vader's hatred is evidenced by two key instances in the OT. First, Anakin takes pleasure in destroying Obi-wan in ANH. He gloats that he is going teach his former master a lesson and sees his death as a triumph ("This will be a day long remembered.") Secondly, Vader is delighted to find out that Luke has a sister in ROTJ. As he states, this discovery highlights the fact that Obi-wan is a complete failure.

Why would Anakin have such deep contempt for Obi-wan? Yes, I agree it's partially due to their rivalry. In ATOC, Anakin tells Padme he is better than his master. In the OT, it appears that Anakin is still trying to prove his point. However, the most oblivious reason for Anakin?s anger has to be his injuries. It was humiliating enough that Anakin was defeated by Obi-wan in battle, but to have to spend the rest of your life as a wretched machine-man as evidence of your defeat has to be almost unbearable for him.

Do you really think Anakin even remotely entertains the prospect of raising Luke himself? We all know that any Jedi?be it a potential Jedi or a fully-trained Jedi?represents a threat to the Emperor. For Anakin to raise Luke would be impossible since that would mean Palpatine would also know about Luke.

First off, I submit that Anakin has very unrealistic expectations. For example, he likes being a Jedi but he doesn?t want to follow the rules. He wants be a husband, but also keep his marriage a secret. Above all, he wishes to become all-powerful and, in turn, prevent people form dying. Anakin feels that he can do anything he wants. So, that being said, why wouldn?t he feel like he could raise Luke himself?

Is it because Anakin is worried that Palpatine will destroy Luke? If Anakin knew his son were alive, I believe that he would suggest to Palpatine that the boy be raised as a Sith. He did so in Episode V, why wouldn?t he do the same in Episode III? (Maybe Anakin?s couldn?t think of a good excuse? Did he needed 20 years to come with the ?Let?s turn him to the Darkside ploy?? - Somehow I doubt that.)

Moreover, I don?t see why Anakin would turn Luke over to Obi-wan when he knows that he will not train him under the Darkside. As evidenced in the OT, Anakin needs Luke to turn. Once this has occurred, he can join Vader and destroy the emperor. bad radio, you believe that Anakin doesn?t want Luke to suffer his fate. On the contrary, I contend that this is exactly what Anakin wants.

Your theory also assumes that Vader truly cares about Luke. I don?t really find any evidence to support this is in the OT. It?s true that Vader is conflicted throughout ROTJ, but he doesn?t really empathize with Luke until he sees him being destroyed by the Palpatine. Remember this conversation in ROTJ:

Luke: ?I will not turn ? and you will be forced to kill me.?
Vader: ?If that is you?re destiny ??

He doesn?t sound like a very caring father to me. Sure, he may be bluffing, but I would take him at his word. After all, he was the one who made Palpatine aware of Luke's presence on Endor. That action wasn?t something that a protective father would do.

I agree that it would provide an interesting twist if Vader had allowed to Obi-wan escape in order to protect his son. However, the evidence from the OT suggests quite the opposite. In the OT, Vader wants Obi-wan dead and humiliated. Also, he wants his son to become a Sith lord, or to be destroyed he if he will not t

 

>>>> He gloats that he is going teach his former master a lesson and sees his death as a triumph ("This will be a day long remembered.")

That?s not Anakin?s hatred, that?s Anakin engaging in self-deception. He?s perpetuating his delusion. Obi-Wan isn?t dead; if there is no dead body, then there is no way for Anakin to prove to himself or to anybody else that Obi-Wan Kenobi is absolutely dead and gone. Anakin knows this but refuses to admit this to himself. ?This will be a day long remembered,? he says. ?It has seen the end of Kenobi. It will soon see the end of the Rebellion.? This is Anakin trying to convince himself that Kenobi is dead, and likewise, he?s trying to assure himself that the Rebellion will be eradicated.

>>>> Secondly, Vader is delighted to find out that Luke has a sister in ROTJ. As he states, this discovery highlights the fact that Obi-wan is a complete failure.

Again this is a form self-deception. Anakin is surprised?not delighted?to learn that he has a daughter. But what shocks him to the core is the extent of Obi-Wan?s scheme. He says, ?Obi-Wan was wise to hide her from me. Now his failure is complete.? When he says this all we can do is laugh at him, because every time he thinks he knows the truth, something comes along and changes everything. Accordingly, Anakin is trying to convince himself that there are no more surprises. He even tries to convince himself that he?ll be able to turn Luke?s sister to the dark side if he fails to turn Luke. What makes him think he can do that if he can?t even turn Luke?

Self-delusion is part of the bigger theme of illusion versus reality that George depicts so meticulously throughout Star Wars. Here again it?s something that he gets from Kurosawa, most notably from Kurosawa?s film The Lower Depths. It?s also something that he gets from Joseph Campbell:

---

The crux of the curious difficulty lies in the fact that our conscious views of what life ought to be seldom correspond to what life really is. Generally we refuse to admit within ourselves, or within our friends, the fullness of that pushing, self-protective, malodorous, carnivorous, lecherous fever which is the very nature of the organic cell. Rather, we tend to perfume, white-wash, and reinterpret; meanwhile imagining that all the flies in the ointment, all the hairs in the soup, are the faults of some unpleasant someone else.

? Joseph Campbell, [i]The Hero with a Thousand Faces[/i][hr][/blockquote]>>>>[b][i] First off, I submit that Anakin has very unrealistic expectations.[/i][/b][?] [b][i]Anakin feels that he can do anything he wants. So, that being said, why wouldn?t he feel like he could raise Luke himself?[/i][/b]

I agree that Anakin has unrealistic expectations, I don?t agree, however, that he feels he can do whatever he wants when he wants. This much is evident in his conversation with Luke in [i]Jedi[/i]:

[blockquote][hr][b]VADER:[/b] The Emperor has been expecting you.
[b]LUKE:[/b] I know, Father.
[b]VADER:[/b] So you have accepted the truth.
[b]LUKE:[/b] I?ve accepted that you were once Anakin Skywalker, my father.
[b]VADER:[/b] That name no longer has any meaning for me.
[b]LUKE:[/b] It is the name of your true self. You?ve only forgotten. I know there is good in you. The Emperor hasn?t driven it from you fully. That was why you couldn?t destroy me. That?s why you won?t bring me to your Emperor now.

[i]Vader looks down from Luke to the lightsaber in his own black-gloved hand. He seems to ponder Luke?s words. Vader ignites the lightsaber and holds it to examine its humming, brilliant blade.[/i]

[b]VADER:[/b] I see you have constructed a new lightsaber. Your skills are complete. Indeed, you are powerful, as the Emperor has foreseen.
[b]LUKE:[/b] Come with me.
[b]VADER:[/b] Obi-Wan once thought as you do. You don?t know the power of the dark side. I must obey my master.
[b]LUKE:[/b] I will not turn? and you?ll be forced to kill me.
[b]VADER:[/b] If that is your destiny?
[b]LUKE:[/b] Search your feelings, Fat

 

bad_radio: When I first saw that scene from Sanshiru it really hit me. It was the first time I realized that Kurosawa films other than THF held sway over Lucas. The quote referring to 'your kind of judo and my kind of judo' reflects the essence of the Sith and Jedi nicely. Great post!!

 

As promised, here is a breakdown, with screen comparisons, of similarities between The Empire Strike Back and some of Kurosawa?s films:

Dersu Uzala

In 1975, Akira Kurosawa?s film Dersu Uzala won an Oscar for best Foreign Language Film. Just four years earlier Akira Kurosawa had attempted suicide.

Try to imagine someone that you idolize, someone that you have a profound respect for, someone that you?ve built up in your mind as being your ultimate model for success. Now imagine that person trying to kill himself, and perhaps you can get an inkling of how George Lucas might have felt about his hero, Akira Kurosawa.

Although Kurosawa never said why he attempted suicide, people have come up with their own guesses as to what might have drove him to that end. Having come from a samurai family and because of his Buddhist (Zen) sensibilities, some perceived it as Kurosawa?s homage to his art. As Donald Richie said, it was Kurosawa?s ?acknowledgement that with the diminution of his creative gifts, life should end as well since his art and his existence have been all but inseparable.? Others saw Kurosawa?s attempted suicide as a result of the hardships he endured with his involvement with the movie Tora! Tora! Tora!, with his failed film company startup, and with his film Dodesukaden bombing at the box office. These three events made it hard, if not absolutely impossible for Kurosawa to make films in Japan?no Japanese film company wanted to hire Kurosawa to make his movies. This had to be pretty devastating for Kurosawa since he lived to make films and is credited with introducing Japanese Cinema to the rest of the world, and here he couldn?t even make a film in his own country anymore. But by August 1975, Kurosawa?s attempted suicide and all the events leading up to that were in the past.

Kurosawa went outside of his country to Russia and made Dersu Uzala. When it was released it was an absolute success by any measurable standard. I mention all this because George Lucas really took notice of this film?his mentor that had reached the ultimate low had come back to prove everybody wrong. Accordingly, much of Empire takes its inspiration from Dersu Uzala. The most glaring similarity is the character of Dersu Uzala himself, and his relationship with the Russian soldier-explorer Vladimir Arseniev. It seems Dersu was the inspiration for Yoda and many of Arseniev?s characteristics were transferred down to Luke.

[image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/DER005.JPG] [image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/DER032.JPG]
[image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/ESB013.JPG] [image=http://members.cox.net/badradio/ESB025.JPG]

Here?s what Donald Richie had to about Dersu:

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The physical appearance of Dersu Uzala itself represents a striking departure for Kurosawa. In his earlier works the pure, noble figure in touch with himself and his surroundings was always larger than life, a powerful specimen usually portrayed by Toshiro Mifune. Here, by contrast, the Russians?who are the physically powerful figures?are hapless, weak, and utterly inferior to Dersu. Yet Dersu is miniscule, a rotund elf of a man, almost like a forest fairy or one of the ?little people? of Irish legend. Kurosawa appears to be contrasting the European alienation from nature through industrialization and commercialism with the natural life of an Asian tribesman. Hence the size of the Europeans connotes only clumsiness. [?] When we first meet Dersu, he seems faintly ridiculous, the mountain dwarf in comparison to the tall blonde, physically handsome Russians. But it is the Russians, forever testing their physical prowess, who are inept. Dersu is the small Asian who shows up the absurd pretensions of European superiority. He presents a different masculine image which suggests that absurd male bravado is infantile and utterly unrelated to competence and value.

? Donald Richie, [i]The Films of Akira Kurosawa[/i][hr][/blockquote]Compare that with how Lucas describes Yoda:

 

There is no doubt in my mind that some of Kurosawa's films hold some key points to Episode III. The only question is, which ones?

 

Everyone?s wondering what the ?big twist? in the prequels is going to be. George says his favorite Kurosawa film besides Seven Samurai is Ikiru. Anyone who has seen this film might agree with me that Ikiru?s hero, Watanabe, is the one character in all of Kurosawa?s films that most resembles Anakin in SW. If this is the case, then prepare yourself for the real shocker: Anakin knows about Luke and ends up joining the Sith to protect his son from Palaptine. To quote Watanabe: ?I did it all for the sake of my son.?

 

Bravo Bad Radio Bravo

Stands up clapping

I'm with ------

Do you see any relations or ideas you think might pop up in Episode III ?

 

If this is the case, then prepare yourself for the real shocker: Anakin knows about Luke and ends up joining the Sith to protect his son from Palaptine. To quote Watanabe: ?I did it all for the sake of my son.?



Wow, I'm shocked! I've always had a feeling Vader knew about Luke! And I believe that Vader originally wanted to be saved by Luke (but as of ROTJ felt it was too late for him)

This is amazing

 

bad radio:

Interesting. I could see him doing that for Luke. It seems in SW that Palp didn't know about Luke until TESB. Plus, Obi-Wan seems to indicate as much to Luke in ROTJ. Does the parallel that Palpatine doesn't know about Luke exist in Ikira too? Or is it more of a blackmail move?

By the way, I finally saw Hidden Fortress this weekend. Better late than never.

The Picnic

 

Fantastic thread guys. It has taken me a while to get thru it all but I've read it from top to toe, and boy, was it worth it!

Unfortunately the previous thread seems to be locked or moved now, so I haven't been able to read that.

If any one can provide a link, I'd be most grateful.

Thankyous to TK327, Samurai Jack and especially bad radio, (if you have not done a thesis on Kurosawa's influence on StarWars, then you should!) for all the pics/parallels and theories.

I really hope some of the theories you guys have suggested happen in Ep3, as they will totally affect the way we view the OT.

I've long held the belief that Yoda and Obi-Wan understand the prophecy and believe in Anakin's ability to redeem himself. It would be fantastic if we see this.

More recently I've posted thoughts that Anakin knew about Luke all along. I never used to think this but had started to believe it was the case and the thoughts here have just cemented that in my mind further.

However. If what you're suggesting is true bad radio, about Anakin going over to the Sith purely to protect Luke from Palpatine, well that would be just about the biggest spoiler ever!



If Lucas pulls that out of the bag it will TOTALLY change the OT forever. Hats off to him if he does. It will be a stroke of genius. I would love to see it.

Just a couple of other thoughts based on what I've read. Firstly, when talking about The Men Who Tread On The Tiger's Tail bad radio, you said this:

"I?ll bet at some point in SW3 Obi-Wan (now having taken the name Ben) will have to pass through a similar check-point with baby Luke, and Vader will be there to stop him. But when Vader realizes Obi-Wan has his son (Vader may not know of Luke at this point) he?ll have to make the quick decision to let Obi-Wan go just so that there?s someone to take care of Luke."

It made me think of the other time Vader was confronted with Luke at a checkpoint; in ROTJ, when Luke and the stolen shuttle are trying to land on Endor. Vader let him go then too and it would be a nice parallel if this happens in Ep3.

Secondly, based on the quotes Samurai Jack posted:

Having saved a dying woman and her baby from the burning mill of the farmer's village, Kikuchiyo holds the child in his arms, slumps in the stream and weeps openly:

Kambei

"She was speared. What enormous will she had to come this far afterwards."

If Kikuchiyo can be seen as Jar-Jar, as has been suggested, then it is possible we might see the Gungan save a dying Padme and her baby daughter!

Also the scene from the Seven Samurai where Kambei removes his Top Knot to disguise himself and save the baby, made me think of Obi-Wan changing his name and possibly losing his Jedi status to save Luke.

What do you think?

 

It's a privilege to watch your mind work, bad radio.

 

wanted to thank bad radio for the latest in exceptional posts on probably THE most interesting thread out there. i come to this thread and am totally "WOW-ed!!!" every time. please keep up the great work!!!

 

Thanks for the kind words.

Incidentally, this month criterionco.com has a great article on Akira Kurosawa and Toshiro Mifune.

I read the above article the other day, and I couldn?t help remembering something that Dan Richie said about Kurosawa and Mifune:

---

By working for Kurosawa for such a very long time, Kurosawa was able to inhabit [Toshiro Mifune] to an extent that he could reveal?although he might not have known he was doing it?aspects of himself. Not that they looked alike, acted alike, or thought alike. [b]It is an example of symbiosis?a very rare example of this where one is not to be thought of except in terms of the other.[/b]

? Dan Richie, [i]Kurosawa[/i] film documentary[hr][/blockquote]Only a [i]SW[/i] geek like myself would?ve noticed that last little bit.

 

One thing I failed to mention about Dersu is that in the second half of the film he loses his eyesight. He doesn?t go blind per se, but his eyesight diminishes just enough to prevent him from surviving by himself in the wilderness as he his done in the past. He ends up having to go and live in the city with Arseniev?s family.

?Blind we are, if creation of this clone army, we could not see.? The Jedi?s ability to use the cosmic Force to see the future has diminished just like Dersu?s eyesight.

 

I see we are know gaining more converts to the "Anakin knows about Luke" side. Thanks to you Bad Radio and TK327, what was once just analytical observation without concrete reference, is now analytically concrete.

All that is left now is the film in 2005. This thread was fantastic, and it also gave me the satisfaction of knowing that prior to my knowledge of Akira Kurosawa I was correct in my theory of Anakin knowing about Luke all along.

This thread has only just begun. Once the official spoilers start coming out and begin confirming the observations posted in here, this thread will become the authoritative thread on SW3.

My gratitude to all who have contributed.


Prometheus

 

I am upping this Thread because it needs to be always near the top. For all those other mindless threads throughout these boards this thread needs to remind all what an intelligent thread is. For all of those people either new to these boards or who merely respond to mindless drivel this is definitely a thread that should be read fully.

Kudos to all those Kurosawa fans out there

 

I totally agree with OBIWAN-JR,and the guy above me ---TP JEDI!!

BAD RADIO- what a wonderful job, and it must be nice to be so "educated" on Akiro. I am so "turned on" when someone has a passion for something, and I can really see you do. Star Wars has really captured everyone here somehow, and can't believe I am so involved this time around.

I really think Anakin new about Luke now. No question.

 

Anakin defecting to the dark side to save Luke; that would be a twist!! While this possibility seems to be in line with the events of Ikiru (have yet to see it bad radio), perhaps we shouldn't rule out the possibility that Anakin decides to protect Luke from the Emperor after becoming a Sith (remember that Luke sensed that the good had not been fully driven from Vader). An intriguing possibility is that we may see Anakin regret his choice to join the Sith almost immediately after he does so, possibly because the true nature of the darkside comes as a bit of a nasty surprise to Anakin (see earlier speculation on how Anakin receives his injuries). Thereafter, he might try to save those close to him.

 

Anakin decides to protect Luke from the Emperor after becoming a Sith (remember that Luke sensed that the good had not been fully driven from Vader).

This could also work well with Obi-Wan and Yoda believing that Anakin could be redeemed by his son because Vader had a weak spot for Luke!

If Vader let's them go and Obi-Wan knows this, then it would be a great set-up for the OT. Great stuff TK327