Is Communism bad?

Ok, you wanted this.

and then you follow it up with

Are you senile? Or in denial? Or do you have trouble with you own position on the issue?

Here it is.

Now onto more important issues. You've backed a position that you clearly admit is incompatible with human nature (although you deny it later). You've continually attacked my position and claim I'm the one who needs to put more thought into it if I can't see your point.

I ask, "What planet are you from?" We earthlings don't praise futile efforts. If you can't achieve it, trying is considered stupidity. And this isn't curing cancer or building a plane where it's simply technological advances. I've posted the requirements for your system to work. And clearly implied in the message is that those conditions cannot exist.

Your reply was to say," God would that be so bad?"

Could you miss the point by a wider margin? It's not a matter of whether you or anyone else thinks it's desirable. No crime is desirable. But is it achievable?

And you keep running face first into a huge resounding no. But you refuse to quit? Now you have the audacity to question my intelligence? You debating technique needs a little work. You've done nothing but shout, "My way is ideal, so it doesn't matter that it can't be achieved."

 

Bruno, T65; I'm going to get a deep sense of satisfaction when I bang your heads together and get an onomatopaeic "bonk" out of it. The pair of you, knock it off. Marx was a brilliant man with stupid ideas; so we can say his ideas, not he, was stupid. Apply the same standards to each other. That also means being flippant which is becoming borderline baiting, Bruno.

Resume

E_S

 

I meant good as succesful, not good or evil. There is no reason to be sucessful, you get no compensation.

I see, that clarifies it a bit. However are you saying that compensation for successfully accomplishing a job is only possible through monetary means? How many people run in the Boston Marathon each year? Are they doing it for the money or for other reasons? Do people volunteer in soup kitchens for the money they make? Compensation in the form of dollars is only one way to "get something" from doing a job.

E_S: How am I suppose to respond to offers to come live with me and clip my toe nails and a nuclear warhead closing in on my family reunion? Flippant is the only way I know how with out just plain laughing. I suppose I could ignore, which I have tried and will try again.

Sorry, I just couldnt let this one go:

trying is considered stupidity.

That pretty much sums up the mentality I am talking about.

Ok back to ignoring!

 

Cause and effect, Bruno. Your remarks upset people; they get annoyed and make snide remarks which offends you and soon I have to douse the flames and ban everyone.

So, that's what you consider when being flippant. Or just rebuke it on the illogicality of it.

E_S

 

OK, I'll play nice.

This thread is asking is communism bad. I made two points:

1. Communism is a good idea from certain perspectives and certainly not evil. But I'm against it because even in it's perfect form I'd still have less than I do now.

2. It's a moot point. True communism is impossible because human nature makes it so.


Bruno

You may not like the fact that I always put myself first. I don't care. I'm not going to change for you. So we can stop argueing on that point. Unless you can show me communism would somehow make my life better than capitalism.

So it's only point 2. I thought we were in agreement. Are we?

 

^^^^Yes, once again, %99.99 percent of humanity would not work well under a true communist government. Our governments don't mold us, we mold our governments, or at least in most fair countries.

 

Were their any what you would call communist countries before Karl Marx's time? Was their a place that practised communist ideals before Karl Marx? Strange question, i know..

 

Lord Black
Strange question, i know..

That is not a strange question. The thing to note is that not all communism is Marxism. And Marx even said marxism wasn't his marxism!

Marxism is a form of communism. You don't have to be a marxist to be a communist.

As for history of countries, not really. Marx did argue primitive man gathered together into collective tribes, prior to the rise of townships, private property, and proto-capitalism

One example of a quasi-communist "society" would be in 1871(?) when the city of Paris formed its own commune. This only lasted a few weeks and was quickly crushed by the French army. This was during Marx's time however.

Some would argue that not only were there no pre-Marx examples of communism, but there were no post-Marx examples either!

 

The Mongols strangely enough was a sort of communistic community. All the excess created belongs to the entire tribe and then is distributed to each individual regardless of contribution.

One of the changes Genghis Khan was advocating before he became the leader of all mongol tribes was that people who created the excess should be allowed to keep it instead of sharing it among the entire tribe. His goal was to cement the loyalty of the soldiers to him. As most of the so called excess is created from spoils of war with other tribes.

This was a major stir as it violated tradition. But in the end, I think the results speaks for itself. Then mongols went from a small group on the steppe to one of the most wide reaching empires ever.

 

The american indians might be another example. They shared their food, traveled in tribal communities, had tribal territories instead of private property, etc.

These are a part of the pre-capitalist societies many marxists speak about.

 

T65, I'm shocked. You didn't mention the Taiping Rebels!

By many historical indications pre-WWII Australia was proto-socialist.

E_S

 

Is Communism bad? Is the pope Catholic?

Show me where, ANYWHERE in the world were socialism/communism is prospering and people are living in a utopian, garden of eden as either one of these alledge to promote.

Cuba?

China?

North Korea?

The former USSR?

Any place that fosters the socialist/communist agenda has a high rate of unemployment (look even to Germany), intolerance of religion, an animosity towards the rich and successful, etc etc etc.

Yes, communism is bad.

It's a failed ideology.

 

I haven't posted in this thread for a long time, nor have i followed the discussions. I'm just replying to the latest post.

Socialism (not communism) has been rather successful in Sweden, where i live. I don't have any specific figures, but unemplyment isn't as big of a problem as in Germany. I definately don't agree that socialism has to mean intolerance of religion.

//Jedi_Emilie

 

Communism has only killed 100,000,000 people and all I got was this lousy labtop.

Communism is a belief based on jealousy, lazyness and hatred.


Jealousy and hatred shown toward the rich and people who earn an honest living.

Lazyness because the idiot that created it was to LAZY to get off his butt and work.\

The only way communism(even though it can't, but in theory) can work is for the entire world to be communist. Thats why communists invade other countries, take them over, kill the opposition then move on to the next. It is evil.

 

But are they as big and successful as America? Nope. If sweden were to turn capitalist they would triple there economy.

 

You seem new to the Senate, so please check out the "Welcome New Users" thread and I want you to post some sort of proof to back up your assertion about Sweden.

E_S

 

Socialism and Communism are virtually one in the same. At least, they go hand in hand.

 

Dear Lord, man! There's so much wrongness there, that if it were edible it'd cure world hunger for the next 50 years!

Virtually the same?

E_S

 

Meesa Back!

Communism has only killed 100,000,000 people and all I got was this lousy labtop.

How is it that a sociological ideal can kill anyone? Guns don't kill people, People kill people.

Communism is a belief based on jealousy, lazyness and hatred.
The word antonym pops into mind after reading that statement. Commiunism is based on equality(jealousy), ethics(lazyness) and love(hatred).

Jealousy and hatred shown toward the rich and people who earn an honest living.
Actualy that is the basis of capitalism, the jealousy part is what is suppose to drive one to work harder and better themselves, however it neglects to let the jealous know that the more the aquire of their own the more they are directly making the rich richer!

Lazyness because the idiot that created it was to LAZY to get off his butt and work.\
I just reflect upon all of those lazy peopel in university who are too lazy to work and instead choose to spend their time being lazy and THINKING. Yes, I suppose the thought process and anyone who would even be so lazy as to commit those thoughts to paper should be kicked out of society all together.

The only way communism(even though it can't, but in theory) can work is for the entire world to be communist.
A point I have agreed upon.

Thats why communists invade other countries, take them over, kill the opposition then move on to the next. It is evil.
HMMMM, wile there are examples of so called communist COUNTRIES invading other countries (Korea), perhaps you could enlighten me on when exactly Cuba invaded Mexico in its world wide domination? For every example of such there are countless examples of non-communistic countries invading other countries for reasons that have to do with their societal structure. Invading countries and killing is an evil act, a societal structure is not.

 

I love capitalism. I love that if I work smart, work hard and have goals I can make a comfortable life. Of course, with public service being my desired career path (Defense or Foreign Affairs) I may have to wait a decade and a half before going hardcore capitalist, but I digress.

What I do know is a fair bit about Communism, and what's pretty darned obvious is this: Most people who don't like communism don't know anything about it, nor why they don't like it. For me, I think that ultimately communism doesn't fully understand the simpler motivations of humans. But I have to laugh when people talk about millions dead as being systematic in communism. It's not.

E_S

 

I'll tell you how. Let's take a look at WWII, shall we? Following your logic, Nazi-ism and anti-semitism aren't to blame for killing millionsof Jews.

 

I know you want a nice society where people share everything and have no war, but Communism, even true Communism cannot exist that long in a state like that. A true Communist society will only survive sucessfully for a short time and then either collapse or sink to subserviance. And socialism is not much better. And the reason Sweeden has less unemployment is because Sweeden is 1/4 the size of Germany.

 

Native American culture was very similar to communism for centuries.

 

Some community in France, too, I think.

The Spartans as established by Lycurgus lived under a rather socialist structure, too.