Is Lucas obsesed with incest? (Luke and Leia)

I doubt Luke would still have the hots for Leia after learning she's his sister.

Ciao!

 

lol, I certainly hope not Angela.

 

Its an interesting subject. To me it just makes Luke look foolish.

 

"Alright old buddy!" Soothed the old card player and scoundrel, Lando Calrissian. "Calm down." The charming rogue flashed a row of perfect teeth and spread his arms out wide. "It can't be that bad."

"Oh it is." The other said back curtly. "Trust me."

Lando's smile slipped to a slight frown as he studied the look of utter dispairity on his long time friend Han Solo. For starters, the Corellian Captain's eyes were off set, and if his lop-sided smile dipped any further he'd be drooling on the deck plates.

The gambler crossed his arms, his cape cascading over his elbows. "Why don't you start from the beginning?"

And again Han threw the other a disturbing look, and with a sarcastic nod Captain Solo motioned towards the nearby computer stations. "Come on!" He barked suddenly. "Get over here!"

Lando threw a glance to the consoles and overheard the tell-tale chirp and warble of an Astro-droid. A moment later an all-too-familiar Artoo unit rolled across the deck and joined them. "This is Luke's droid." Lando said matter of factly.

Han snorted. "Glad we got that out of the way." He said. "You:" Solo called to Artoo. "Play it again."

Strange. Artoo whistled nervousily-

"Looks like he's afriad." Lando murmured with a cocked brow.

"He'll have more to fear if he dosen't play it." Han growled back, not taking his eyes off the droid. "I won't ask again."

Reluctantly Artoo pivoted his holo-projection dome and ran the recording stored in his memory banks.

Looked innocent enough Land thought;

A idelic setting; A beautiful lake, mountains in the distance, carved masonary bridge overlooking a vast oasis of tranquility-

"Fast forward!" Han snapped.

With an electronic whimper Artoo did as he was told until-

"Hello," Lando said conversationally, regarding the lovely young woman garbed in a flowing white dress with long dark hair. "What have we here?"

"That's Luke and Leia's parents." Han muttered. "Anakin and Padme. Recoginize the teenaged boy with the metal arm standing near 'Goldenrod?'"

Lando was taken aback. "Lord Vader?"

"Yeah."

"Looks like they're getting married." Lando replied. "Buddy," Calrissian said gently. "We both have unsettled scores with Vader, but he's gone now so I don't see why-"

Han waved him silent. "Give it a moment."

Lando remained silent and still as Han tapped Artoo's dome to continue the fast forward;

"Apparently the old man I met through Luke gave this droid special orders." Han said at last.

"Special orders?" Lando echoed.

"Told the droid to keep signifigant family events on holo-file for future use."

Lando arched his brow again. "The Skywalkers?" He hazzarded. "Anything else worth noting?-"

Lando broke off as another projection came into view.

An all too-familiar setting aboard the Rebel Medical Frigate. Lando suddenly felt a subtle ache within the pit of his stomach. Last time he'd seen that areas was shortly after their flight from Bespin. The Princess angry, upset, vulnerable at the loss of Han, and the injuries to Commander Skywalker-

"Why do I suddenly think I shouldn't be watching this?" Lando murmured.

"Because 'buddy' you forgot to mention this to me?" Solo grated with a touch of menance.

"Now look Han," Lando shot back. "I'd left, enroute to Tattooine to catch the Bounty hunter-"

Again Solo silenced him with a gesture. "Here is is."

"I got a bad feeling about this." Lando mumbled.

"Yeah, join the club."

Moments passed, and the old friends regarded the holo-graphic presentation of Luke and Leia assembled with Artoo and Threepio near the observation window of the Medical frigate. Beyond, the distorted image of the Millenium Falcon departed, heading towards the galactic core-

"There." Lando said suddenly. "Look, Leia's feeling down, and Luke's comforting her." The gambler flashed his perfect teeth again. "Just like a brother should." He added with a wink.

Han chuckled darkly. "Keep watching 'buddy'."

And Lando did. The twins of Skywalker regarded the celestial beauty of the galaxy with Artoo and T

 

Its an interesting subject. To me it just makes Luke look foolish.

Luke looks foolish, but not Leia? o_0 She's the one who engaged all of their kisses, from the good luck smooch in ANH to the passionate one in ESB. Luke just happened to be attracted to a pretty girl he'd never met before. It's not really his fault, nor hers. Besides...I always got the sense that he was awed by her a bit...to the point where he sort of backs off, even as he crushed on her. And surely he pulled back as soon as he realized she and Han were in love.

Really, I think she came off as the sillier one. The sophisticated woman tries to play both men against the middle and winds up having kissed her brother.


Darth_Digital - That was awful. I laughed anyway.

 

"-Bury your feelings deep Luke." The ghostly form of General Kenobi said cryptically. "They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor."

Amid the dagobah bog, the self proclaimed Jedi Knight, Luke Skywalker nodded in understanding. Not since the disturbing revalation by Darth Vader within the bowels of Cloud City had Luke been faced with so many 'truths from a certain point of view,'

So, Vader was indeed Luke's father. His mother was long since gone, and Leia was his sister-

His sister!

Luke called upon a Jedi calm. How was he to know? A isolated orphan from a fifth rate planet in the hindend of space where the light of civility shined least.

The irony was staggering. What was next? Han Solo was the result of an affair between Obi-Wan and his mother put up for adoption?

Again Luke forced a calm through his system. "Ben," the young Jedi said at last. "I think I have more then my father to face about these truths."

The aparation of Obi-Wan nodded curtly. "Yes," Ben said with a strained calm of his own. "It was most unfortunate that you rushed into that."

Luke spared a glance to his mechanical arm, listening with half an ear to the servo-mechanisims beneath his leather glove. "I was wounded in more ways then one." Luke forced himself to regard the ghost. "I was vulnerable." He took a deep breath. "She was vulnerable-"

Obi-Wan waved it off. "The force has an even stronger influence on the trusting and familiar."

And with that, the solution struck Luke like the violent slap of a Wampa in heat. "Jedi Mind Trick." He murmured. "Erase her memory. Understood."

Ben smiled.

Luke smiled.

And somewhere, within the depths of the core systems a long lived Sith Lord cackled amid the darkness...

 

I've always wondered,why did Lucas have Luke kinda have a crush on Leia before he relized that she was his sister?

Well, she was damn cute, unlike any uncultured, dried, bore that he'd grown up with. And why in the world would he think a PRINCESS from another planet be his twin sister? Would you? This is the character's perspective, not yours.

And besides, the story didn't start out that way. Lucas was burned out after the three filmns, which were a terrible trial to bring to the screen. He got tired of it, and wanted to tie up lose threads. Leia was not originally his sister, in the films anyway. Besides, Leia didn't know Luke was her brother (see: first paragraph) so kissing Luke was like kissing a friend you like to make the one you love jealous. Leia already loved Han at that point. She just got flustered with his attitude.

And you know all this. Maybe YOU had a disturbed childhood.

 

Originally, Luke was going to be introduced to his sister in ROTJ, who was undergoing her own training on the other side of the galaxy. They were going to confront the Emperor together. Also, Obi-Wan was going to come back to life in the flesh, and they were going to have a show-down in the basement of Vader's crazy castle which was filled with lava and where Vader fed gargoyles.

Glad that was all changed.

Lucas is not obsessed with incest. Though the dream scene from AOTC doesn't help my case any.

 

*chokes* Gargoyles? Hoo boy, am I glad there was some editing there. XD Though the idea of a sister being trained halfway across the galaxy isn't half bad...just opened up too many loose ends about why she wasn't sensed if Luke was. Strange how well Leia fell into place as his sister, though. o_0 I see alot of Anakin in her. Maybe it's because Luke and Leia play off each other similarly as Padme and Anakin did, only with more platonic overtones?

And as for Anakin...well, I think there's plenty there to build a strong case for an Oedipus complex in him.

 

Yoda says "There is another" in ESB- The same film where Liea kisses Luke in the mouth. The other was Liea therefor the sister/brother idea was concieved BEFORE ROTJ.

Lucas may be playing out a personal fantasy but he is not the first director to instill his own views into his movie. The guy who directed JeepersCreepers2 was convicted on some type of charge involving boys where he went to jail. He was critisized with good reason in the films review due to its content- Boys taking off there shirts, sweating, and many penile references. It was clear that even after going to jail this was still in his heart and showed through apparently in his film.

Im not saying Georges case is as extreme or even illegal in that matter, but film-makers put themselves and their thoughts into films. I HATE movies where a cheating wife gets away with cheating and becomes an innocent figure, but in a film where a man does it he transforms into a villain and HE IS KILLED AT THE END. Thats why, in a script im writing, the cheating wife will get whats coming to her- because its my own view. Lucas likes the idea of bro and sis getting a little physical. It probably turns him on to no end. So he dabs a little incest in the film for his personal enjoyment. Hey, its fiction.

 

Yoda says "There is another" in ESB- The same film where Liea kisses Luke in the mouth. The other was Liea therefor the sister/brother idea was concieved BEFORE ROTJ.

How does this specify that Leia is the sister? Originally, the sister was supposed to be introduced in ROTJ as training on the other side of the universe. Therefore, there WOULD have been another regardless if Leia was there or not. This suggests Lucas did have the idea of a sister, but in no way does it indicate that Leia was the one he chose. Now, Lucas may have been toying with the idea at the time, given the connection we see at the end of ESB, but this is easily explained by a friendly connection. After all, Ben was not blood-related to Luke by any means, yet he can still connect with Luke - perhaps more strongly than any other. And when Luke first landed on Dagobah, he felt a familiarity with the place despite never having been there or having met Yoda before.

Really, you have to consider this from the character's perspective. Neither of them knew (well, consciously), and even then, fate made sure they never fell in love. I hardly think this is Lucas peddling his psychological wares in his movies. It's more like a morbid joke, if anything else, a mean joke on the audience, but one to snicker at all the same. It's not like anything was seriously wrong there. The one serious kiss she gave him wasn't at all open-mouthed and lasted less than ten seconds. There is nothing particularly sick or twisted about this, simply a miscommunication and lack of information. And, really, imposing the idea that a director is living vicariously through his films by channeling perverted lust is not only insulting, but fairly slanderous as well.

 

Yoda says "There is another" in ESB- The same film where Liea kisses Luke in the mouth. The other was Liea therefor the sister/brother idea was concieved BEFORE ROTJ.

Incorrect. That is fallacious reasoning on your part. You've taken a group of unconnected events and strung them together in an attempt to make them meaningful to eachother, which they are not.

- When Yoda says "There is another.", he could be referring to anybody. In fact, this was originally a throw-away line meant to get the audience in the mindset that Luke was expendable and therefore could possibly die in his confrontation with Vader.

- Luke and Leia kissing had no meaning for two reasons. One, it was meaningless from an incestual standpoint because, in the minds of the writers at that time, Luke and Leia had no blood-relation. Two, it was a kiss designed simply to infuriate Han and make him jealous. It was pretty obviously not born out of an attraction for Luke.

The brother/sister relationship was conceived in the story-phase of ROTJ. It was done for a simple reason: they didn't want to introduce an entirely new character into the saga in the last movie. It would have been a headache to have to write in a new and MAJOR character like this. Also, it had the side-benefit of ending the love triangle between the three major characters and tying-up the relationships by the end of the OT.

 

"Incorrect. That is fallacious reasoning on your part. You've taken a group of unconnected events and strung them together in an attempt to make them meaningful to eachother, which they are not."

Fallacious reasoning on my part. Iv taken a group of UNCONNECTED events and strung them together to make them meaningful to each other. I have performed that complex task by interpreting Yodas lines as they could ONLY pertain to Leia. I should have been more observant as you and come to the revolation of "he COULD be refering to anybody". Yes, yes, thats much better. What was I thinking?

Anyway, if not Leia, than WHO would be the other?

 

DELETED ROTJ scene; LEIA: "...it's not like that at all, he's my brother". HAN: "You mean him and you...and you and him??? LEIA; (unable to meet his gaze, nods and hangs her head). HAN: (with a look of intense relief) "Whew, this sure makes what I have to tell YOU a whole lot easier, princess (puts his arm around Leia). LEIA (a quizical look on her face). HAN; "....you know how me and the wookie have been flying around together all these years...just the two of us, all alone in that tiny little spaceship..."

 

But Luke liked Leia. I know it was before ROTJ

Luke: Who is she, she's beautiful.
-------------------------------------
Luke: What do you think of her Han?
Han: I'm trying not to, kid.
Luke: Good.
-------------------------------------
*Leia kisses Luke and walks away, Han looks on as a very SMUG Luke leans back smiling*

 

Alright...

Episode 1:

End with a 25 year old man and a 14 year old girl both grinning stragely at a 9 year old boy.

Episode 2:

Ends with a cougar eloping with a messed up teenaged boy.

Episode 4:

Ends with a teenaged girl getting the 'look' by a cradlerobber and her own brother.

Episode 5;

Ends with a brother and sister cuddling near a bed.

Episode 6;

Ends with the cradle robber and young girl cuddling while the brother is giving them the stare...

I wonder if Episode 3 will end with Vader and Palpatine having a threesome with Tarkin?

 

Like I said before

http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=16075159&start=16368145

 

Fallacious reasoning on my part. Iv taken a group of UNCONNECTED events and strung them together to make them meaningful to each other. I have performed that complex task by interpreting Yodas lines as they could ONLY pertain to Leia. I should have been more observant as you and come to the revolation of "he COULD be refering to anybody". Yes, yes, thats much better. What was I thinking?

Anyway, if not Leia, than WHO would be the other?

Haven't we gone over this already? Yoda was referring to Luke's sister, a girl who was NOT at the time ESB was written identified or portrayed yet as a previous castmate. Leia was not related to Luke until ROTJ. It's a damning line in retrospect because Lucas made the decision to make such a change, but it hardly reflects a fascination with incest at the time of the writing if it wasn't meant to be incest at that point.

 

Oh I getcha. Im looking at the storywise events in conjuction with all the sister/brother kissing going on. Your saying that Luke had a sister/brother that was NOT Liea that would be "the other" originally. Therefor, the kissing would be nothing more than a potential love-triangle or just to make Han jealous.

If this is the case, ( I have NEVER heard Lucas utter a single word about ANOTHER NOT being Leia ) its good everything worked out. The kisses never hint to anything further than friendly or making Han jealous in ESB. The closest it gets to weird is when Luke smiles and puts his hands behind his head.

 

This has GOT to be the best thread ever!!

I just finished reading "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" for the billionth time and come across this thread, what are the odds?

 

About "There is another". Wasn't there some theory that Yoda could had hinted on Vader? That he still could be turned to the light side. And if you can make the bad guy to the hope, then you could (theoraticly) make anybody to that hope. At least that's what I think.

 

The phrase "There is another" is intended for the new character that will be introduced in ROTJ. But Lucas remade it to Leia being Luke's sister so that the story will not be messed up.

 

I completely agree with everyone who says it's merely a bit unfortunate. Yes, Leia was trying to make Han jealous and was not really interested in Luke except as a friend. Yes, neither Luke nor Leia know they are brother and sister at this point. Which makes it an absolutely natural thing for the characters to do at this point, including Luke's reaction, even though in retrospect it may be awkward for the audience. Yes, it never went or even hinted at anything beyond a kiss.

I don't see the problem... unless you want to fault Obi-Wan for not warning Luke when he saw his reaction towards the Princess' hologram

 

"Yoda says "There is another" in ESB- The same film where Liea kisses Luke in the mouth. The other was Liea therefor the sister/brother idea was concieved BEFORE ROTJ."

incorrect

Irvin Kershner::...In [the first draft], there's no hint that there may be another hope if Luke fails. In the revised second draft, a few lines of dialogue were added as Luke's X-wing disappears in the sky: Yoda says: "Now we must find another." Ben replies: "He is our only hope." And in the third draft, after Luke takes off, Ben says: "The boy is our last hope." Yoda replies: "No...we must search for another." - The Annotated Screenplays

George Lucas: My feeling about Luke being the last hope was really done in an effort to make sure that he was in some jeopardy, that he might not succeed. I was trying to set up subliminally in the audience's mind that something is going on here, that he could fail. And if he fails, 'there is another hope'. So the audience is saying 'Don't go, finish your training. - The Annotated Screenplays

 

Personally, I'm more worried about Kershner than Lucas. That man must have mentioned sex 4 or 5 times on the DVD commentary for ESB. He even made an analogy that the first Han and Leia kiss is the equivalent to intercourse in the Star Wars universe...very twisted.