Is there anything inherently evil about the Sith Code?

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me"

IMHO, the Sith Code doesn't seem to preach any sort of behaviour which is reprehensible. Quite the contrary, it encourages the empowerment of the individual, and victory over adversity via ones own strength, gumption and humanity. I fail to see how such teachings are evil, as long as one's 'victory' is not obtained via impinging on the right of other innocent civilians who also seek self-improvement.

 

The entire point of the Sith Code is to dominate over others.

All the talk about "power" and "victory." Power over who? Victory over who?

And of course, "peace is a lie." That alone discredits the Sith Code.

 

The problem here is that peace is NOT a natural state of humanity. Open warfare isn't necessarily the natural state, either, but conflict is a part of who we are as social animals. Peace isn't a lie, but it is a utopian concept (that being an ideal but unrealistic concept).


I don't think the Sith code is inherently evil, just exceptionally selfish. And when you add exceptionally selfish to extremely powerful, then you get evil. From a simplistic point of view, anyway...

 

Ayn Rand might have something to say about that.

 

Precisely! I couldn't have said it better myself.

Does the Sith Code state that one should aim to dominate others?

 

Word.

Existence is conflict. Peace is a lie is indeed the truth.

 

Actually, this pretty much explains why the Sith will always be "bad guys."

Let's explain the Code in a nutshell. Sith, according to their code, are a bunch of Conflict-Heady guys who are told to embrace all of their passions and also to reject all authority (Chains) but their own people. Furthermore, to develop their force use abilities to allow them to do whatever the Hell their emotions tells them too.

Meanwhile, the Jedi are taught to embrace emotional control and work for a world of peace with stability. They also have a traditionally strong relationship with local law enforcement.

 

On peace being a lie:

Doesnt the jedi code say, "There is no Chaos, There is Harmony."

Can that be interpreted to mean Chaos is Harmony as it is the natural order, not peace?

 

Read John Locke

 

No, it's explicitly saying that Chaos is something people make up when everything operates to a Divine Plan (The Force). Randomness and Coincidence don't exist in the Jedi world.

 

The problem I see with the Sith Code is even though our natural state of being is not peace, but rather conflict that doesn't mean we should embrace it. The Jedi try to raise themselves above that the Sith revel in it. That's the differance I see.

 

The Jedi also carry lightsabers.....is that to inforce "peace"? The thought of real peace is impossible. If it was possible, then the Jedi wouldn't be taught at such a young age to learn how to fight.

There is NOTHING evil about the Sith Code. What eventually happens is that power leads to self-corruption. Self-corruption is the evil.

Even the Jedi Code of old can be considered evil when you think about how it was forbidden to have a relationship. Having a relationship and creating children is natural and a part of nature....yet the Jedi of old forbid it. Uh...don't the Jedi believe the Force is natural and a part of nature? They contradict themselves and that can also be considered evil.

 

I always thought that "There is no emotion, There is peace." and "Peace is a lie, there is only passion." referred exclusively to inner emotional and spiritual state of a Jedi or Sith respectively. An ideal Jedi would know complete inner peace just as an ideal Sith would know only passion.

 

The passion isn't love. It's rage and anger and hate and arm flailing and yelling and basically being aggressive and violent. Against the innocent and the unarmed.

Dominate others. They are weak use them. The non force users are cattle and insects to be crushed.

That is the way the Sith think. It's very nature is cruel, evil. Needlessly violent.

 

Passion is passion. It can mean alot of things. Just like Darth Talon explains to Cade about the Sith artist that created the artistic wall.

As far as "Dominate others. They are weak use them. The non force users are cattle and insects to be crushed.".....I guess basically its natural to be a Sith then . Survival of the fittest and only the strong survive is the natural order of all animals at their primal core.

I think its the self-corruption of having too much power that leads a Sith Lord to evil....not the Sith Code itself.

 

I don't think it's inherently evil, but extremely likely to lead to misuse and abuse. Power corrupts all but the most pure, and the way of the Sith isn't going to attract those who are almost perfectly pure, wise, and loving.

 

It doesn't rhyme, that's the problem. But it's possible for a Sith to rule benevolently.

 

Let's start from a basic premise:

Sentients are crude and uncouth in their natural state.

Without self-control, such animal instincts will turn toward self-gratification.

The Jedi's code is solely concerned with self-control.

The Sith Code is solely concerned with the mastery of oneself through the release of one's animal desires.

[/end premise]


Civilization is a conscious choice that all humans must embrace in order to continue as a society. That means that for our race to continue, we must work with others. Yes, humanity needs and even should participate in conflict. (See THE GOD EMPEROR OF DUNE) However, the conflict needs to take place between groups of people, and not between individuals. Humans instinctively move toward one form of government, dictatorship. While a benign or benevolent dictatorship may be the best form of government, it is a Utopian idea, and highly impractical. (Absolute power corrupts absolutely)

So, no matter how righteous the motives of a Sith are, their "way" focuses on stripping away their self-control, and any good intentions.

One simply can't master oneself with the gratification of desires. (Look at any alcoholic/druggie on a city street corner) One must practice self-control to master oneself, which is the "Jedi way".

 

Well said...and something of particular note:

And this is why so many Jedi fall...because so much of Jedi instruction is "the force has the answer"...and when the Jedi look to the force in everything...when it becomes more then guide and instrument...but provider, rewarder, and lover...the gratification consumes the Jedi.

It's a dangerous path the Order takes.

 

Peace is something that can happen in certain countries. If nothing else, as an ideal to strive for, it's something that's worth fighting for. The Jedi Knights seek to make the world MORE peaceful, it's a paradox that they do it through a weapon.

Of course, the Jedi consider a lightsaber a meditation tool first and foremost.

The Jedi Knights never considered having a relationship and creating children to be unnatural. They depicted the idea as something that distracted them from making the world a better place and also something that caused you to value certain individuals over others.

It's needlessly distracting from your job, which is to protect the universe.

Peter Parker had the same problem in Spiderman 1

 

Holding in one's urine for ten minutes en route to a suitable restroom might be unnatural, but simply letting it go wherever you are might be considered uncivilized and inappropriate, depending on where you are and with whom.

Not everything that is natural is necessary or even good, since humans (and, one can assume, other sentient beings) live in a society that is driven at least partially by reasoning instead of pure animal instinct. For the Jedi to set restrictions on interpersonal relationships isn't wrong at all; almost all of society, theirs and ours, has restrictions. The ones pertaining to the old Jedi Order might be harsher than most, but hardly a group exists that doesn't reason out some justification for setting limits.

 

Not everything that is natural is necessary or even good, since humans (and, one can assume, other sentient beings) live in a society that is driven at least partially by reasoning instead of pure animal instinct.

Plus, nature DID supply mankind an intellect.

Human intelligence is no more unnatural than anything else in the universe.

 

The Jedi Code could be a natural extension to the Golden rule:
"Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you".

The Sith Code meanwhile, could be a natural extension to the Fool's Golden rule:
"Do unto others, before they would do unto you".

 

It's less a doctrine of good vs. evil.

Than of Civilization Versus The Animal.

Mace Windu probably said it best that the Dark Side is "natural" but the natural world is evil.

 

He didn't say the jungle was evil; he said that it was the enemy of the Jedi. Big difference between the two.