It's A Shame We Never Met Before????????

Why have Count Dooku & Obi-Wan never met before OB1's capture?

They spent 20-25 years both being Jedis in the same building.......

To think they never crossed paths is ridiculous, especially when Dooku adds "Qui-Gon always spoke so highly of you."

So, Qui-Gon Jinn had many Obi-Wan-less meetings with Count Dooku over the years?

From what we've seen in Eps I & II, Masters & Apprentices seem to be joined at the hip most of the time.

I know, somebody will say that Qui-Gon & Dooku were probably off on different missions & never crossed paths personally when OB1 was Qui-Gon's Apprentice.
Well, obviously they never crossed paths when OB1 was around (Does that add to the speculation Qui-Gon was a bad guy too?).

But, what about the years OB1 was trained as a Youngling in the Jedi Temple?
Count Dooku never happened by even once?

Remember the scene where OB1 interupts Yoda training the Younglings? What do the Younglings all say when Yoda says "Younglings, we have a visitor."?

In unison, "Hello, Master Obi-Wan."

Now, how is it that all these 5-6 year old kids know Obi-Wan by name & face, yet a famous Jedi like Count Dooku was virtually invisible to OB1 for 25 years?

That makes no logical sense.

End of rant....

 

It tells me that Dooku was very aloof as a Jedi Knight. There's a giant age gap as well.

 

I agree. It does seem rather odd. Unless he's speaking about "meeting" vs. just meeting. By that I mean actually knowing someone and not just a "Hi ya's, nice to meet you."

That would be my best guess since the younglings seem to know who is who upon sight.

 

Maybe Obi-Wan was always busy elsewhere when Qui-Gon spoke of his apprentice?

 

Qui-Gon & Dooku were probably off on different missions & never crossed paths personally when OB1 was Qui-Gon's Apprentice.

 

There are thousands of Jedi if I'm not mistaken. I don't think they all know each other personally. Plus, there is that huge age difference. Also, what young padawan wouldn't know Obi Wan Kenobi? He's the only Jedi who killed the first Sith Lord in a millenia and is training the Chosen One. He must be kind of a Jedi celebrity or hero to the younglings.

 

Qui-Gon probably E-mailed Dooku about how good Obi-Wan was.

But considering there are tens of thousands of worlds in the galaxy and Im sure the Jedi have alot to do on a great deal of them, so its not all that unbelievable that they havent crossed paths.

 

Maybe Yoda deliberately kept Obi-Wan and Dooku apart, knowing that if Dooku were to have met Obi-Wan when he was younger, he could have easily influenced him, or something. It's a silly idea, but it might work!

 

I must say that this part of AOTC really bugged me. You can try to spin it any angle, but the bottom line is that there is no reason they should never have met before.

 

How could they possibly have met when the character of Dooku hadn't even existed before the AOTC script was written? That is the explanation.

 

Well, I think this is covered from both a storyline and an actual reason.

Dooku wasn't thought of before AOTC. And Dooku didn't spend much time around the Jedi Temple during Obi-Wan's years there, considering he would've been in his late forties when Obi-Wan was BORN it's not so odd that he wouldn't hang around the Temple so much. Especially since the 10 years between TPM and AOTC were spent travelling around and whipping up support against the Senate.

 

How could they possibly have met when the character of Dooku hadn't even existed before the AOTC script was written? That is the explanation.

Uh, that's sort of the point to this thread isn't it???

There is no reason to think that say 5 years before TPM Qui-Gon would have never introduced Obi-Wan to his former master. I mean think about the bonds that are created with a master and his apprentice in their relationships. I personally love the dynamic of relationship between mentors and learners and to me it has been slightly cheapened with this angle. That line of "it's a pity ours paths have never crossed before" is very weak storytelling. I don't know why GL didn't have an exchange where we see that they have met before. And that could have been achieved quite simply.

I loved AOTC and I loved Yoda referring to Dooku as his old Padawan. But I think Lucas blew this part in trying too hard make Dooku more attached and personal to the story.

 

It's the very opposite of weak storytelling, it's trying to create more of a character for Dooku. Why didn't he meet Obi-Wan before?

Anyway, Qui-Gon could have possibly told Obi-Wan about Dooku, but they just had never met face-to-face. Just because it's not squeezed into the film running time doesn't mean it couldn't have happened.

 

It does indeed seem odd, it also seems odd that Anakin and Padme have not crossed paths in 10 years, they both live in th capitol and are both very chummy with the chancellor, you'd think they bump into each other at the office from time to time.

 

Why haven't Obi-Wan and DOoku met? Why haven't Anakin and Padme seen each other in 10 years?

Because the film would be uninteresting if those things had happened.

The Jedi temple is a large place with thousands of people coming and going. It's not a highschool where everyone hangs out with others as they please. It's a serious place for serious training, work, and spiritual growth. And their duties outside the temple are never done. That is all the explanation that's needed. Plus the fact Dooku seems to have been a loner, mysterious even to his peers.


And what must be understood is this is not a modern story, this galaxy is not summer camp.
Anakin just can't take a bus to Tatooine wheven he wants and stop by his girlfriend's place on the way home. Jedi have a very strict code they follow with their lives. And normal citizens don't have access to ships to do those things in the first place. This is a very old story. Like the old stories here on Earth the world was a huge place because people didn't have access to decent transportation. It makes things a lot more interesting.

 

>>>>But considering there are tens of thousands of worlds in the galaxy and Im sure the Jedi have alot to do on a great deal of them, so its not all that unbelievable that they havent crossed paths.

So, I guess it was good luck that Obi-Wan & Anakin had just returned from a border dispute on Antiock at the exact time AOTC begins?

BTW, WHERE is there ANY indication in the 2 PT movies that there's thousands of Jedi around?

The impression I get watching the movies is there's a few hundred, maybe 500-1000 tops.

I know, The OS.
But, the way things happen in the movies, it certainly appears & unfolds like there's alot less than 10,000.

And spin it any way you want, Count Dooku & Obi-Wan had 25 years to meet before Dooku left the order. To think they never did is absurd - especially when you throw in the Qui-Gon connection between them.

 

Well think of it like this. Who in here works for a large company? Or goes to a large high school? Do you know every single co-worker? Every single member of top management? Every single student? When you were a freshmen did you know every senior? Why not? You went to the same building day after day, or in terms of a large company maybe years. What about the transfer students and the students who went on an exhange program for a semester? What about the salesperson who was transfered two years ago to an alternate site? That's life. And that's life in a GFFA. It happens.

Edit: spelling

 

I don't think it's a plot hole. Dooku is 40-60 years older than Obi-Wan, so the only time he probably would have seem him is either passing him in the halls or occasionally meeting him as Qui-Gon's master. They certainly probably didn't have a close relationship where they saw each other every day. Just because he doesn't have this deep relationship with Dooku doesn't mean he doesn't recognize him either.

Re: The younglings scene-Doesn't Yoda even say Obi-Wan's name before the younglings say hi to Obi?

 

Honestly don't remember if he says his name.

But I fidn it plausible that they haven't met. I don't picture Dooku as the kind of guy who be hanging around the hq much and dropping in on the younglings.

 

My thoughts is that once a Jedi graduates from being a Padawan that the council tries to keep Master/Former Apprentice as far as possible from each other to avoid sects from appearing in the Jedi. I know it didn't work as 'the circle is now complete!", but it would be another safeguard to avoid desention.

Possibly QG and Dooku only communicated via holagrams, or QG meeting with Dooku is one of the things Obi-Wan said the council overlooked in TPM. QG of corse would not take Obi-Wan to these meetings as he was more the straight arrow (and would object), and/or to protect him from the conseqences if the council decreed punishment.

 

OK, I'll buy that keeping the Master Apprentices apart, that makes sense.

BTW, it's just as I described it:

"Younglings, we have a visitor."

"Hello, Master Obi-Wan."

 

*****
BTW, it's just as I described it:

"Younglings, we have a visitor."

"Hello, Master Obi-Wan."
*****

Dooku's main motivation to me seemed to be he wanted to be better than Yoda. Dooku wouldn't interupt Yoda's training of the Younglings, and if he did it wouldn't be to ask for help. I would guess that Dooku was always on missions trying to make a huge reputation for himself as the most powerful of the Jedi. If it's true that he was also weathly the only reason I could see him choose to be at the Temple is to pick a new Padawan. Nothing more, nothing less. So I don't have a problem with the fact that Dooku and Obi-Wan never met.

 

"Because the film would be uninteresting if those things had happened."

Personally I find it the way it is to be very uninteresting. I'd rather see a film where the characters have personal connections and have built up friendships and conflicts.

If you consider that Padme and Obi-wan only spoke once to each other in TPM and then didn't see each otehr for 10 years, they are hardly friends, even Padme and Anakin only had a few exchanges in TPM, compared with ESB where its clear that Han, Luke and Leia have built a great friendship between the two films, and a budding romance.

The same goes for the villans. I'd rather that Obi-wan knew dooku, that they had some history, where'st he thrill of seeing anakin and Obi-wan fight dooku? Dooku has never even acknowledged Anakin until the duel is halfway over, compared with Luke fighting Vader, we've had two movies building up to the fight where Luke can finally "avenge his father", plus all of ESB is leading up to that point.

Either way I agree that it does not seem like there are more then a couple hundred jedi, people claim there are 200 in the arena, but I don't see more then 30. And I find it very hard to beleive that Padme and Anakin have not run into each other at Palpatines office before.

 

I agree, it doesn't look like 200 Jedi in the arena to me either.

But then it's not meant to be all the Jedi. It's all that were available, to travel to Genonosis at very short notice from all around the galaxy. There's a massive amount of planning needed in any military operation.

 

"Welcome Home Lord Tyranus", these were the words spoken by Sidious to Count Dooku after he arrived on Coruscant.

Sidious was welcoming Dooku back to his home on Coruscant, which is the home of the Jedi.

I also find it hard to believe that Dooku and Qui-Gon never met up with one another ove the course of the years that he was training Obi-Wan.

It appears also that Dooku was a very notable Jedi despite him being the idealistic individual he was. I find it hard to believe that Qui-Gon never had his apprentice meet this notable Jedi Master

I also find it hard to believe that Qui-Gon would not have wanted his apprentice to meet his own master. In other words, I find it difficult to believe that Qui-Gon would not have considered getting together with Dooku to meet his apprentice that he thought so highly of.

And by the way, Dooku said to Obi-Wan that Yoda thought so highly of him.

So when did Yoda and Dooku discuss Obi-Wan?


Darth Sin!