"It's over Anakin....I have the HIGH ground..."

Well, in the video game it goes either way, depending on whether you complete level 16 or 17. It's interesting to see Kenobi impaled and his body slide down the slope.

It was a risky maneuver. In the truly immortal words of QGJ, "every time you gamble, sometimes you lose".

If Anakin had jumped over and far beyond Kenobi, the result would have been the same as if he had just jumped off the droid onto the shore before attacking. He was trying to land right behind Kenobi. Unfortunately for him, Kenobi anticipated the move and compensated for it, although I'll have to agree this wasn't clearly shown on screen.

 

DOODOO, you have it the other way around. ROTS is a pretty good Star Wars movie, about the same as AOTC, until the posse slaying and Order 66. Then it becomes the crown jewel of the Saga.

 

No way

Order 66 destroyed everything that was cool about a jedi.

 

Absolutely not. Warrior monks always get their "Order 66". It doesn't ruin their mystique. It doesn't detract from their awesomeness because they were outnumbered and betrayed by faceless purebred warriors. History doesn't remember the farmer with a musket who killed the Samurai. History remembers the armored Samurai atop his steed, sword in hand. An overly-romantic notion, of course, but that's what appeals to folks.

 

When I saw Kiadi Mundi, the 3rd ranking jedi, get taken out by clone troopers, I knew that Lucas had run out of ideas. That's ridiculous.

 

Order 66? This thread is about Anakin/Obi-Wan peeps! Focus!

 

PALPATINE: I can feel your anger...Gives you FOCUS, makes you STRONGER.

Indeed, when Anakin uses the dark side, he becomes a better warrior. A part of me cannot believe that he went out like that to Obiwan. The only reason that it could have happened was that the Force was no longer with him. Sent by the Force, it foresaw that an unsuited Darth Vader would grow insane with power and never complete his destiny. Therefore the Force channeled it's energies through Kenobi in order to secure a future in which Anakin Skywalker could return. This is what I believe, because even if Obiwan was expecting it, he couldn't have stopped it.

Ki-Adi is strong, but he is no Yoda. It's even possible that Mace could have been taken down by Order 66. It's not a knock on the Jedi that they fell to Order 66. The clones had no emotions about killing the Jedi. It wasn't heartbreaking for the clones to kill there Generals. It was about the clones going to the office and doing their job. There was nothing to warn the Jedi. Yoda was the only one that could sense anything and luckily he escaped. But I think Order 66 was one of the best things about RotS. As a viewer, even with hints in AotC, I was completely surprised myself. I really enjoyed it. It makes Palpatine look so damn calculating. What was the best way to destroy the Jedi Order? Use soldiers that had been blindly loyal to the Jedi for years. Unbelivable. Palpatine's planning of the rise of the Sith was just incredible.

 

Anyone that was surprised by Order 66 either didn't see the OT, didn't understand what was going on in AOTC, or doesn't own any history books.

And if you think Lucas has no good ideas, you'd probably be happier on a Matrix, Firefly, Lord of the Rings or Stargate forum.

 

One thing that ROTS explores is the contrast between Palpatine and Anakin. The former is in control and takes his revenge after decades / centuries / a millenia of careful planning and patience ... the latter gives into his base passions and nearly loses his life in the process. Notice the scarring scenes: Palpatine willingly gives up his soft face in the culmination of his duel against Mace in another calculated ploy, but Anakin intends to destroy Obi Wan and is scarred and deformed through his own anger and recklnessness. Palpatine takes his revenge in this film, but Anakin only begins to at film's end. ROTS lays out the pieces for the birth of Darth Vader; it does not lay Darth Vader out on a plate and say, "here he is, folks!" Anakin is moving to become Darth Vader all through the film, but he doesn't truly start to resemble that iconic figure until the closing minutes. Where am I taking all of this? Simple: Nothing that Anakin does in ROTS is close to what the Darth Vader of the OT does. Anakin is morphing into that entity, but he isn't that entity yet. Ergo, when he jumps at Obi Wan, it's a heinous move, and Anakin learns a lesson. The final minutes of the film change Anakin beyond recognition: physically, emotionally, spiritually and otherwise. But the new personality that emerges through that door in ANH is one shaped by twenty years of reflection upon the events of ROTS.

I seriously only just truly started to get this. I expected Anakin to become very Vader-ish at the 11th hour of ROTS. Every minute that ticked away to the credits, bringing us closer and closer to ANH, I kept expecting the Vader of the OT to emerge. Not necessarily the masked Vader, but an Anakin that exhibited all those traits of his masked form: cunning, skill, patience, careful prowess. But no. And why? We're dealing with a much younger version of the same character in ROTS. And youth carries with it certain hallmarks, just as age does. As Obi Wan Kenobi -- well, Alec Guinness -- from another film said:

Young men make wars, and the virtues of war are the virtues of young men: courage, and hope for the future. Then old men make the peace, and the vices of peace are the vices of old men: mistrust and caution.

That sort of applies. In an abstract sense. Anakin has courage and hope that are warped by the Dark Side of his mind into arrogance and fear (which itself is warped into anger, hate and suffering). That's the Anakin we see on Mustafar. Then he makes a kind of peace with himself in the following twenty years and he is far more cynical and sly. "We must be cautious," Obi Wan tells Luke in ANH. Anakin learnt that lesson, too. Of course, the old Anakin never dies, for Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker, but time is that strange magic; stranger than the Force itself.

 

I didn't say that he didn't have any good ideas. I just said that Order 66 was not one of them.

 

What did you expect to see? Anakin Skywalker personally flying around the galaxy and fighting thousands of Jedi Knights? Maybe you'd believe Boba Fett was responsible for it? Vader helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi, meaning, Vader pointed the way and the Jedi were wiped out by the millions of faceless, robotic, unquestioning Clone Troops.

 

NO. I don't like jedi dying because of clone troopers. They don't die when challenged by normal people. They die when one of their own kind kills them. Vader+Clones = jedis dying. Clones = jedis surviving. That's how it should be.

 

They can die because of normal people. That's the whole point. They're not gods. Anyone can kill a Jedi, which Qui-gon said was very true to Anakin. He's speaking from experience. He's watched Jedi die from non-Sith/non-Dark Jedi opponets. It happens.

 

Dealing in absolutes, are we?

The destruction of the Jedi by clones is foreshadowed when the clones are introduced in AOTC.

A Jedi is not infallible and can be killed by other beings and other circumstances. A Jedi is just less likely to go down like a punk. But Sidious punked them good. End of story.

 

Dealing in absolutes, in black and white, is not healthy. In fact, my old signature used to say something like that.........

Order 66 was fairly appropriate....Obi-Wan said that vader HELPED hunt down and destroy the jedi....he didn't say that vader did that all on his own!

Not trying to start an argument, just sharing my thoughts!

 

Ben: "Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire to hunt down and destroy the Jedi."

Helped. Not did it all. Who is the Empire? Palpatine. What did he use to eliminate the Jedi? The Clone Army. Who worked with the Clone Army? Darth Vader.

 

Litterally, my thoughts exactly.

Vader had to have help.........I do not see anything wrong with the stormtroopers killing the Jedi (I don't mean that I don't have a problem with the Jedi dying....nooooo, that's not what I meant!) because it actually proves how weak the Jedi were!

 

"It's over Anakin....I have the HIGH ground..."

--What Kenobi was really saying:

"The PT is over Anakin!! The OT is coming and to its fate, you must be bound!!"

 

The jedi were not supposed to be weak, though. They were supposed to be iconic figures that were nearly invincible.

 

Exactly. Lucas tried his best to make sure the duel looked competitive, but still, it came across as, how the hell did Anakin lose?

How are the Jedi weak? The clones are amazing soldiers. Some of the best Kamino has ever made. They have been trained since birth to fight. The reason the clones were successful was A, they completely surprised the Jedi and B, they had overwhelming numbers. With the clones killing Jedi, it's like at 3 years of loyal frienship, your bestfriend shoots you behind the back. It would never even enter into the thought process of Jedi that the clones would turn against them. And second, the clones killing Jedi wasn't easy at all. Take for the example the 501st. The finest of the finest. Raiding the Temple with Vader, it still took about 7 or 8 clones to defeat one jedi. It's not easy to kill a Jedi. The Jedi are powerful. The clones killing Jedi does not seem to me that the Jedi are weak by any stretch.

 

Exactly! If a heavyweight boxing champ gets shot in the back by a mobster, that doesn't make him any less of a badazz. I certainly wouldn't think less of him.

It's a credit to the skill of the Jedi that Sidious has to secretly create an unquestioning Clone army, lure the Jedi into accepting them as comrades, isolate and surround the Jedi, slowly thin their numbers with years of warfare against billions of battledroids, then spring a trap wherein they are all executed at the same moment. If they simply declared war on the Jedi, it'd never work. One hundred suspecting Jedi would wade through thousands of Clones, leaving only a trail of severed limbs and blackened armor.

Just look at how easily Yoda and Obi-Wan, who knew their foes, shredded that platoon of Clones at the Temple, no sweat.

 

But you're taking everything away from a jedi that makes them cool. They use the force to EXPECT that to happen or to SENSE that happening. They are experts of working out of traps. Just like Obi-Wan says, "Spring the Trap."

 

Well, during the OT, we learn that Obi-Wan and Yoda are the last of their kind. Obi-Wan is filled with regret, and Yoda is banished to a giant swamp. We know that the Jedi are flawed, have made mistakes, and are more than capable of getting snared in a trap, especially if it's set by a Sith Lord.

 

Even more when we see in aotc how the jedi fell pretty easily when outnumbered.. .they were powerful not invincible.

 

Exactly! If the PT Jedi had been ridiculously overpowered like the ones in the Clone Wars cartoon, it would be inconceivable that they'd ever fall from power.