Discussion James Mangold’s First Jedi Film

There's gonna be some serious meditation shown in this film as the early Jedi "hear" or "feel" the space magic.

 

I mean if there really is going to be a religious take then it could be more conscious based. You could do the whole burning bush, flame of god route. Or you could do psychedelics to aid the progress of that religious meditation.

 

Psychedelic nose lizards!

 

The Force appears as this guy:

 

If you want Moses tropes, there are many modern films that will give you that. Not too exciting. There's no growth there, no expectations violated. The prime jedi in universe myth presented with Episide 8 unfortunately has created some mental shortcuts. The prime jedi combined with Moses tropes is a recipe for a cinematic disaster. I assume Mangold knows this, but does X?

The prime jedi is decorative. The prime jedi may enhance jedi meditation. The prime jedi awakens the inner jedi, but is not a substitute for history lessons. As a substitute for history, the prime jedi is an attempt to explain something very complicated through one being or one archetype. The result: insert Prime jedi to fill a void or knowledge gap that can't be explained. We do this all the time in our religious and belief systems. *Insert a Prime Jedi to fill a gap somewhere. As a substitute for history, the Prime Jedi offers a rather sad reminder of a stolen history.

Moebius
I do, however, agree with the Moebius images offering inspiration for this film. That fits what is shown in the comics series. There are beast riders and structures/temples cut out from solid stone. Moebius has been a conceptual artist for SW, so of course that works.

Also, check out the size of those hats in the Moebius artwork, previous page.

Sentient lizards addicted to spice, ok. Anything new there?

 

It could be cool is kyber crystal tech was already in use in some other fashion. Perhaps even as part of their oppression. Whips, or laser prison bars or something. And then the First takes one, fashions it into a hilt, and out comes a flickering blade. As if it's a desperately made but ingenious weapon

 

I'm curious if the concept of the Je'daii Order (or something similar) could be brought into canon.

In Legends they were the ancestors of the Jedi. They existed on Tython and believed in a balance between dark and light side.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Je'daii_Order

But the balance ended with the Force Wars. The surviving members became the Jedi.
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_Wars

However Legends lacked a "Prime Jedi", since the first Jedi was a group effort.

Still what if the Prime Jedi was once apart of an older force user faction? There is still potential for this. For reasons he left his old order and started the Jedi. Maybe his old order got there own version of the "Force Wars" and fell apart.

Or they have the Prime Jedi not be affiliated with any force users prior.

Though the whole "pre-Jedi force faction" is a more interesting route and better for world building. Especially if comics/books, etc are planned to expand the DoTJ era beyond just one film.

 

While I agree with all this, I have a feeling this won’t be the route they go down, cause Mangold said his film would be about the first force-user specifically, not just the first Jedi.

Then again, the mosaic in TLJ implies that the earliest Jedi tried to find a balance between light and dark, and the design from that mosaic is now being used as the official symbol of the DotJ era.

 

I kind of wonder if the "Prime Jedi" is just a mythic figure. Like the first Jedi, and those first Jedi in the Order refer to a Prime Jedi who had found balance in the force. Like so many other religious orders, where the 'founder' is cloaked in legend, myth, and is more figurative at times.

So that mural of the Prime Jedi, might just be who the first Jedi revered. He might not really have even been a Jedi, in the same way that Jesus Christ wasn't a Christian.

 

You can sit on his lap and tug at his beard and call him him Santa Claus. And... he will explain everythin and leave a gift wrapped in paper and bows.

This is your Prime Jedi.

 

Like he was named a Jedi years after the fact and was not really a Jedi but rather a strong Force user. At the time he lived, nobody knew much or anything about the Force other than this dude (or dudette) was strong in a mysterious power. Then, when the Jedi order was created and the first temple established, they looked back and revered what this "prime" had accomplished and ordained him as the "prime Jedi".

 

I had never heard of Moebius. Did some looking around. That would be a GREAT way to approach this project!

 

He's one of my fall time faves. And he's contributed to so many movies and comics. I doubt they'll end up really making this movie look like his world, but I think it's on target.

 

You can see how SW really uses those concepts.
Top-looks a lot like Mos Espa/Eisley
Middle-looks a LOT like Geonosis
Bottom-kind of like Gunga

I'm sure there will be influences at least.

As for plot, I was just tossing down some notes:
* Oppressive government (think nobility and peasants)
* Young child uses powers nobody knew about to protect village and accidentally kill an official
* Child is taken away and hidden
* Oppressive government begins to look for signs of any child with these powers
* Child ends up taken to a settlement/civilization underground where the inhabitants seem to revere/worship a being known as "Prime"
* There are others with this power in the "valley of Kyber"
*Eventually, they rise to the surface world and the villagers rely on them to help them fight the oppressors

Very basic notes, but just some things I jotted down.

 

I believe ... he worked on Empire Strikes Back. So there's some give and take, where SW influenced him, and he got to influence SW directly.

 

After 25000 years it would be difficult to maintain consistent records so I imagine the Prime Jedi is just a mythical figure to represent the first Jedi or group of Jedi. Then again Star Wars is basically a myth unto itself so they probably could have an actual person that was given the title of 'Prime Jedi' (and the books come straight from that group of people) and it wouldn't be any big deal.

 

Matt Easton's latest video got me thinking about alternate first Jedi weapons. Staff is an obvious choice, Chirrut used one. There are all kinds of other possibilities including many of the traditional martial arts weapons that were based on or evolved from everyday tools. Considering the humble appearance of most Jedi, I think they should stay away from armor and obvious weapons of war. Plain, simple weapons like the war paddle are far less belligerent, surprisingly effective, and very versatile. Varied weapons like these would also allow more interesting choreography, letting the duelists show us moves that are very different from the usual lightsaber techniques that we've now seen over and over again.

 

I don't think Renaissance Europe, or even Medieval times with its long bows and blunt swords is perhaps the right time period for inspiration. We could go back further. Much, much further.

This is a picture of a crystal dagger discovered in Spain, circa 5000 BCE.



Take that and make it SW fantasy. Kyber crystals. Other kinds of crystals. Jade. Whatever.

 

Kyber crystal daggers AND kyber crystal arrows. Great potential for interesting stuff!

 

Is the Dawn of the Jedi also meant to be the Dawn of Man? Star Wars' own 2001 Space Odyssey?

 

No. Just the origins of the Jedi Order.

 

This 1000 foot Jedi statue on Jedha is ancient as hell, fallen over, and covered in sand. Who knows when it was carved, and what Jedha was even like back then. And he's also holding a saber of some sort. Maybe even a slightly curved one, although that could just be sand/worn.



And more ancient Jedi statues w sabers

 

In Legends we actually do know what the Jedi used before lightsabers. They used something called force-imbued blades:

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force-imbued_blade?so=search

They're technically canon too, though only mentioned in a roleplaying book, so not much to go on, but still something.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force-imbued_sword

They were used by the early Jedi Order 25,000 years ago and by their predecessors the Je'daii as well. Reading about them and how they are created, it's quite fascinating. A Padawan is given a bar of special metal, which they begin forging while channeling the force into it, until it takes the shape of a blade. They then put a crystal into the hilt of the blade, fusing the two together and making them one while continuing to channel the Force into it. They meditate with it a lot as well, continuing to channel the Force into it, until eventually the weapon becomes permanently imbued with the Force. When used, the blade glows with Force energy, the color matching that of the crystal inside it. It's basically like a magic glowing sword.

The creation process was more intense than that of a lightsaber, being both physically and mentally taxing. By the time of the movies, and even 4000 years ago during the KOTOR era, the creation of force-imbued blades had pretty much become a lost art. Could we see something like this in the new movie? It would be the perfect balance, being a suitably ancient weapon for a time period so long ago, but still being Star Warsy enough, as the "DNA" of a lightsaber is still there since a kyber crystal is still used in the construction process.

Some example images of Force-imbued blades:

Ancient followers of the Ashla (lightside) and Bogan (darkside) fighting each other with force-imbued blades:


Xendor and his followers wielding force-imbued blades during the Jedi Order's First Great Schism 25,000 years ago:


Some game art of one you can actually use in the Star Wars: The Old Republic MMO:


The ones in these images look more like katanas, but in the movie we could see more variation in designs among them, though if they were to resemble katanas that would be kind of fitting, since Star Wars, particularly the Jedi, takes a lot of influence from Japanese and East Asian culture. The Jedi are basically samurai space wizards.

 

@DarkGingerJedi : I'm pretty sure they featured the collapse (deliberate destruction, actually) of that Jedha statue in a recent issue of The High Republic comic. So it was brought down relatively recently in the canon timeline. But, as you say, its origins could still be very ancient indeed.