ST John Boyega (Finn) in the ST

I don't expect it to be glossed over, however, I'd still be fine with them alluding to Finn remaining simply because they saved his life and have been looking after him as he recovers. That's an easy to understand and powerful motivation, and doesn't need to be expanded upon with dialogue or contrived angst. I don't think he needs more than that to be honest.

 

Note that this is neither the romance thread nor the diversity thread.

 

Actually that should have been "dismiss any interracial straight white couple". It was late and I didn't notice that mistake when I wrote it.

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel. Those type of folks get to a point in which they don't even seem to care about the larger narrative. The shipping becomes the primary interest they place in the story and characters. Now there is nothing wrong with that. In fact such stuff is for the most part completely harmless. The problem that occurs is when people get so invested in it that they start building up hate towards TPTB if their dream romantic scenario isn't made canon by taking place on screen.

Ah, just saw the Mod's note. Sorry. Enough of this discussion then.

 

I worry it will be glossed over just as his time with the First Order was glossed over in TFA. He didn't show any hints of having second thoughts or regrets of leaving people he had known for years behind. He didn't hesitate to fire at his fellow soldiers without remorse (they were following orders when they fired at him; he was the deserter after all). He also seemed pretty comfortable being on a Resistance base and talking to their leaders despite growing up for years being trained to not like anyone who was an enemy of the FO. In other words he lacked complexity on those fronts. What a wasted opportunity. It may be too late to try to add such complexity now

 

You touched on some of the problems I had with his characterization. Sometimes I think they just took it too far. I was fine with him firing on the FO in his desperation to escape them, but I thought the accompanying "Woo Hoo!s" unnecessary. I was fine with him being the everyman who rises to the occasion in extraordinary circumstances, but thought the "sanitation" line unnecessary, especially in a situation where his knowledge of the FO is showing its value to the mission. I didn't like his confrontation with Phasma being played totally for laughs "I'm in charge! I'm in charge!" There should've been more gravity in that scene, IMO.

But moving forward since this is the Finn in TLJ thread, I am going to keep hoping Rian will iron out these bumps and make him a more fully rounded character. I think John Boyega is an actor with much to offer.

 

Yes, yes, YES! You nailed virtually every point, every wasted possibility, that I think negatively affected Finn's characterization. I mean I too wanted him to be a Jedi bu that wasn't a deal-breaker for me. Your examples you cited above disappointed me more than anything.

Boyega is a terrific actor. He alone saved what could have been one of the all-time worse SW characters IMO.[/quote]

 

[/quote]

Just to clarify, I never actually wanted or even thought about him being a Jedi. A character doesn't have to be a Jedi for me to love him. I loved everybody in Rogue One. I also loved the humor in TFA, just as I loved the humor in ANH as a kid; I think that is a real strength in those movies. I just believe that in TFA the characterization of Finn tipped the scale too far into the comedic relief category. His scene with Phasma could've been more serious with some ironic humor thrown in, and not veered into downright silliness. My hope is that TLJ will correct this and give him a more balanced portrayal.

ETA: The scene with Phasma didn't do Phasma's characterization any favors, either.

 

I hope it's something more interesting than that. Maybe a shield he uses both offensively and defensively (like Captain America)?



It would be cool to see Finn and Rey fight together in IX with this kind of "the sword and the shield" dynamic.

I think what people are most offended by is the way she laughed at the question.

It's one thing to let the audience know a gay relationship is not coming (honesty is the best policy), but you have to be careful not to give the impression that you think gay characters are a joke.

 

I wasn't trying to suggest you wanted him to be one as well when i wrote "too". Rather I was pointing out I was one of those folks who did (still do) want him to go down that route.

Totally concur about the Phasma nonsense. A squandered opportunity.

 

It was only last week I was talking about those youtube comments threatning physical violence and punching Kathleen Kennedy over the launch of Forces of Destiny. A kids tv show. I can't stand shipping, it brings the worst out of people over things that aren't even real. Shipping is childish to start with and its mostly adults that do it. There something not quite right there, they need help.

 

I think there is a difference in wanting a certain story line to go in a certain direction that's not the problem. I have a problem when shipping strangles peoples thoughts, it takes over, it makes people paranoid, nasty even. It becomes a compulsion and blurs reality.Taking ownership of a fictional relationship is a bit unhealthy for the mind.

But yes back to Finn

 

As far as I can find there's not even video of her answer. It's just people asking "what happened?" and then repeating her answer and that she laughed. I don't know that it was a dismissive laugh or just the kind people do when they're asked unexpected questions in interviews, and neither do most of those ripping her to shreds. I also doubt any positive context would alter most reactions, which seem to hold a personal grudge against Kennedy and/or are just outraged their 'ship isn't happening in TLJ.

 

This is the video (at 00:27):

http://de.ign.com/m/star-wars-episo...herausforderungen-fur-finn-in-the-last-jedi-s

And this is one of the reactions on Tumblr:

 

The rumor that Finn cuts off Phasma's arm is all but confirmed in my eyes since it was the first rumor that stated Finn uses a new weapon in this film. So because of that I think the new weapon will be some type of blade instead of a shield.

 

Yeah I'm not seeing malice here. Certainly not seeing the unmerited, grossly overgeneralized "Kennedy laughs at the thought of gay couples" claim. Laughing at a "bromance" between two friends who showed no romantic interest for each other is in no way equivalent to "laughing at the thought of a gay couple." People shouldn't assume everything is a commentary or attack on their personal lives.

I said it earlier, but Oscar and John coyly acknowledging it and playing it up with ambiguous comments is where any complaints should lie, not with Kennedy, who has only been honest.

 

They show her answering it at the end of the video where John is talking about training and the new weapon Finn is going to use. I don't think she was laughing at the idea of gay relationships as much as that one in particular as most who watched TFA probably didn't come away from it with the idea that Finn was into Poe or vice versa in that way. What people need to realize is that this whole thing was brought about by Oscar Isaac jokingly mentioning that he was playing romance. People ran with that joke and started reading things into their relationship that weren't there. Besides whether or not they go that route, people are going to write fanfic and make drawings and paintings about it anyway, so outside of a legitimate desire for representation I don't see why it matters.

Anakinfan, I'm not sure that's what you meant but maybe the term bumbling is not the best choice of words. Bumbling would imply that he's messing up a lot and given the reaction that many people had to that side of Finn in TFA, I don't think many would like that very much.

 

That leaker (Bothan-spy on Reddit) said it wasn't a bladed weapon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/4l1o6c/the_skywalker_special_epviii_spoilers/

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLe...ore_info_on_episode_viii_scenes_and_maybe_r1/

 

Which makes me suspect it's one of the executioners' weapons.

 

Hmm, then maybe it is the exectutioner stormtrooper weapon that was rumored

 

That's a good theory and one I could have happily accepted if we saw Finn perform with such robot efficiency (in terms of fighting and thinking)after he decided to break away from the FO. But what we got instead was a young man who was unsure about how to properly respond when attacked and assaulted and one who had such a cheerful personality for most of the movie. I mean how does someone who spent all that time being conditioned to be a robot, as you say, immediately form such an attachment to Rey (to me the only somewhat legit answer would be that he fell in love for the first time but TPTB may not even pursue tat angle). And if he could form such an emotional attachment to her and to Poe as well (he was very happy to find Poe alive), why was he unable to form such attachments with the young soldiers he grew up with other than possibly the one who died in his arms early on? Aren't those soldiers just as much victims as he was? And do we believe that none of them were really "human" deep down other than Finn?

 

This. And let me come down a bit harder on Boyega again. When people first bought that to his attention he did the right thing by politely saying he didn't think Finn and Poe were anything but friends. Then later on it was as if he got some memo to not dash anyone's hopes and from there his responses to the question became coy non-denials. And we're talking about the same guy who gave the famous brushoff over a year ago when a reporter asked a question about a Finn/Rey romance. That question led him to spout stuff about how there was no romance between Finn and Rey, never any hint of it, Finn doesn't know anything about romance, etc. Perhaps he was going overboard to protect secrets by denying it, but if he was telling the truth on that front maybe he should have been just as honest so far as Finn/Poe was concerned.

Still to me the main problem became that the mainstream media became so convinced of the possibility of Finn/Poe that it started taking that wishful thinking as gospel. So much so that the question has been posed by the media in writeups and interviews.

 

I understand where you are coming from so far as how Finn was portrayed in BtA. But the vast majority of people aren't going to read that book nor should they have to in order to get a better sense of where Finn is coming from. That was the movie's responsibility.

And it is one thing for Finn to do what he has to in order to escape from the First Order, but he volunteers to help assault them long after he made his escape. He even helped the Resistance with plans in how to destroy the Starkiller base which would kill countless former fellow soldiers as well.

 

It's a catch-22. Do you come off as homophobic by saying "of course there's no Finn Poe romance."

Or do you say stuff like "well, anythings possible." Which some view as hard facts that it will happen and others view as queer baiting.