ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

Question those stances. I did not say you can’t agree with. Some chose that these failed before it was finished. Agree or disagree? Misinterpretation or misunderstanding is a lot more likely without all of the info.

Again, the whole point of the initial post this morning is, does anyone feel that the clip provided of Driver/Affleck is a relevant or flat out right place to continue to make known your despise of the character or films? Those people are determined to make their opinions known.

I’m confident when I say it’s no one here. Question and disregarding are two completely different things. Hopefully, we all understand that.

There are fans who will defend blindly and their are those who will criticize blindly.

 

That’s why I would never engage outside of a Star Wars specific community/site.

Not calling anyone out here. Especially, specifically. Again I have agreed with about everything said after my initial post. No frustrations at all with those who legitimately don’t like enjoy the films or aspects of it.

 

I don’t understand what you’re saying here. I don’t feel the need to question people’s “stances,” like their opinions on the story in a space opera can be invalid. Yes I think it’s possible to think the ST failed just from the setup of TFA. I didn’t, but I get why someone might come to that conclusion. Luke failing to rebuild the Jedi, the only offspring of the OT3 being evil and murdering Han with Han and Leia split up and regressed as characters. If someone views this starting place as an invalid continuation of RotJ, there is nothing left to do for that person. And that’s valid. Disney/LF is absolutely not entitled to every single consumer that likes SW liking their product, or even giving it a chance, no matter what, even if the premise sounds like garbage to them.

Totally agree with that. Obviously that clip is not the place to post hate for AD, Kylo, or the ST.

 

YouTube and Twitter comment sections, aka hell on earth.

 

@AhsokaSolo No worries. Stances and opinions such as those pointed out have been used to add fuel to the negative outlook. My opinion is open to questioning. 100%. I believe everyone’s opinion is open to questioning. If some people are uncomfortable with that, ok. The amount of backlash is far greater because of opinions that were formed prior to watching from my point of view. Certainly, opinions can be changed with a legitimate shot and the right mindset.

In your case, if you don’t question opinions that you are in agreement with, nothing wrong with that. But, I do. It wouldn’t be the first time you and I disagreed, right. Haha.

Part of all this. One final time, and I’ll give it a rest. This is not intended for anyone on here. I can not relate to the opinions shared via Driver doing something awesome for Affleck’s kid. Aware that this is life now. This is social media. I share my opinions through Star Wars specific sites only because it’s the closest to decent conversation out there.

 

TROKR Issue 4:

Spoiler

Darkness rises, and the light to meet it! What girl?!

 

Did you mean to say opinions that I'm not in agreement with? I liked TFA. I wasn't one of those people.

I'm all about discussing and engaging on the films, obviously. But no, I'm not about thought policing people for daring to dislike a premise just for what it is. Everyone is entitled to that. I dislike the premise of reylo. I think it was horrifically written. That said, I would have disliked it even if it was written well. I don't tune in to SW for gothic romance. Gothic romance is A) not my thing; and B) specifically not why I watch SW. I watch SW for family, for the force, for Jedi, for space opera, etc. I also don't read vampire romance novels. That stuff doesn't appeal to me. Actually it's the opposite. That stuff repels me. There is nothing to challenge about that, just like there is nothing to challenge in people that have no interest in a continuation of RotJ that splits up Han and Leia and has their only evil child mass murder Luke's Jedi and Han.

So romantic, wow. I especially love that she's still a child here.

 

No. I like to know why people I talk to agree or disagree with me. Sometimes, it’s shed light on why I may be wrong in either direction. I have had conversations with people where I agree with them initially. Then, things evolve because of things said, interpretations, or more thought. Have you ever questioned someone you agree with to learn ultimately why?

Also, policing and questioning are two very different things. The placement of certain topics, such as the Driver and Afflecks kid is a curious place to make criticisms, wouldn’t you agree. Not hard to understand. Question the opinion/motive. Not police a darn thing.

It’s cool if we don’t agree about this.

 

I already agreed that spamming that video with ST and/or Kylo and/or AD criticisms is invalid. People shouldn't do that.

I was disagreeing with your critique that there is something wrong with people merely having an opinion on the premise of a film before seeing it. That viewpoint policing, which is exactly what I think that is, is something that has become pretty mainstream discussed on SW internet and I think it's a bad thing. Everybody judges the premise of a movie before seeing it. That's how we decide whether or not to see a movie. If we don't like a premise, we usually don't watch it. This isn't suddenly a terrible thing in the SW context.

 

https://www.comixology.com/Star-Wars-The-Rise-Of-Kylo-Ren-2019-4-of-4/digital-comic/829242

 

"The physicality of Kylo I am very protective over, I wanted to do all of the things."

 

Right, and again have you or anyone you have ever known had an opinion prior to seeing or doing something that wasn’t encouraging or written off then change their mind if given a legitimate shot? In other words, yes, I believe it’s a flawed assumption. Could be accurate. But, potentially flawed. To say that it should be written off definitively is also a form of control/policing. If anything, my suggestion is encouraging the shot. Different Interpretations...

Look, we’ve attempted this before and I can tell that we do have a very different approach to this. What you see me doing as policing I believe is fascinating. If you do not understand where I am coming from I’m sure neither of us will lose any sleep over it.

 

Let's put a quote from GL, next to a pic that's not the character he's talking about. Truly a mic drop moment.

 

That quote doesn’t just have to pertain to Vader, it can relate to characters across all stories. It’s the concept that is interesting.

 

Where did I use the word "should"? It's not that people should do anything. It's that they can have whatever opinion they want. You are the one arguing that they should not have an opinion on the premise of a film before seeing it, when in actual reality that's a totally normal thing everyone does. Sure of course, sometimes our preconceived notions end up being wrong when we care to give something we weren't jazzed about a chance. That doesn't mean we have to give something we're not jazzed about a chance. It's actually completely okay and even normal for a person to say, "you know what? I don't want to see that. It doesn't appeal to me. That direction for the story is wrong in my opinion."

 

@AhsokaSolo To make the definitive statement that a movie/character isn’t good, is horrible, and to speak on that or write/post is nothing more substantial than an assumption without seeing it. yes, I believe that is a very flawed approach.

Nowhere did I say it isn’t ok to decide not to watch a movie because it appears disinteresting or to be a poor direction. Ive done that with plenty of movies. Never followed that up by saying it sucks and engage in conversations to try to prove that it does. I’d be being dishonest because I don’t actually know. If this is too difficult to understand let me know. The absolute statements that the Sequel Trilogy stinks or characters are awful without seeing it is hard to argue as accurate. Not impossible but very difficult.

Quite a direction this conversation has taken, eh?

 

Well the difference with SW is some people are hardcore SW fans and think the premise is bad for SW. Those people are going to keep commenting on SW, even if they think the continuation of RotJ is flawed in its very conception. And once again, that's perfectly fine. It's inevitable. People aren't watching wrong just because you want everyone to give the sequel trilogy a chance. No one has to give any space opera a chance if it's not their thing.

 

Yep. Exactly what I said too. You don’t have to give it a chance. I’m not sure how else to put it after all that’s been said... so here you go. If you or someone decided not to watch all or any of the ST, do you believe you can accurately decide that the movie isn’t good, certain characters aren’t good, and go forward with publicly letting people know how bad you think it is? Not direction (never said) The product.

If you can, that’s incredible. from my point of view.

I’m sure everyone is sick of this by now. So I will leave it at that. You can have the final say.

 

Have to love an actor who cares about his character as much as Adam does Kylo/Ben

 

Kylo/Ben is a great character. I hope we continue to have great stories with him in the past and in future.

 

Anakin’s a bit of a complicated case but I would argue that he’s not a main character in the OT on the basis that from a certain point of view(the audience’s) he’s been long dead for the first 60% of the trilogy. None of that matters though if we’re talking about a hypothetical alternative Episode 9 where Kylo keeps on being an entitled prick the entire time though, because in that case I would agree that we got all the backstory we need on him. (Whether that story was good/enjoyable is a separate question)

 

That is quite something for an actor to take time out and work with a comic book artist concerning a character he plays. Not many other people, if anyone, would do that. Hats off to Adam.

As you say, he must really care about the "Ben" character.

 

That's absolutely amazing to me that Adam was involved in the comic--even saying the lines to check if they feel natural and acting it out!

The Rise of Kylo Ren also happens to be some of the character's best-written material. It's rare for actors to even know what's being written about their characters in tie-in materials, much less acting it out.

There's also that stunt video of him where he wanted to do all the stunts himself and was very protective of the character's physicality. And yes, something like his gait would be immediately noticeable if it were by a double. It's very unlikely they'd have the same walk, which stands out so much that people were pointing out that you could tell which feet belonged to Adam (his feet turn inward) in the trailer shot of the Knights of Ren.

 

And if he did'nt hate him why would he betray him? He already had power, so it would'nt be for that.

You really think they guy who hated his former best freind for beating him in a fair fight, was filled with envy and bitterness towards the Jedi Council simply becuse they did'nt give him a hollow title and flipped out on and choked his beloved wife in a paranoid rage at a moments notice would'nt hate the boss who actively encorages peaple to hate him while both are members of an order whose members feed on anger and hatred and which propagates itself through betrayal?

Poorly?

It worked.

His political views were far from "resonable" but yes, they were laid out. The point is still that he chose Palpatine over the Republic, a goverment that, as both a Jedi and an active-duty serviceman in the Republic Militery, he had taken oaths to defend and protect.

So Kylo talks about how smart Snoke is - that's not "cult like devotion." You know who else talks about their master being smart? Vader in ESB ("he has forseen this...")

So am I, but not to the point were I ingore what the films are telling me are facts; I mean, I don't find it realistic how the romance of Padme and Anakin was dipicted in ATOC and buy their falling in love, but I'm not going to go claim that it was'nt a thing.

If your reffering to Kylo's fit in the elevator your ingoring a whole other part of the converastion right before that - namely that it was when he brought up Han's killing and Kylo's inner termoil; that fit was'nt just becuse he was offended over the mast comment, it was also becuse of the former issue as well - its an example of "show, don't tell."

Well see, here's the thing - I don't actually think anything was being foreshadowed by Snoke's line.

We are stright-up shown Luke greiving over his students, and told in TFA that him feeling repesonable for their deaths was part of why Luke walked away.

I agree overall, but I would argue that their is something of a problem with the highlighted - judging something before it's out has never sat right with me; call me old-fashioned, but "don't judge a book by it's cover," and all that.

I would'nt go so far as to say peaple should be "thought policed" but its defiantly better to keep an open-mind - to be completly honest I think a big problem is peaple making up their minds about something before they see it to such an extent that they've adopted such a firm stance on the subject that nothing the finished product does can change their mind.

It was'nt? It's the most prominant version that's been floating around/cited, so I assumed it was the most recent. Which one is the final one, the one were they fight Solloney together and he gets killed? I'm not really sure that's redemption either - he dies saving her, but they were presented more as allies of circomstance then anything else; would it have been redemption if he had died to save her from one of the Praetorians in TLJ?

Trevarrow almost defiantly left becuse Fisher's death required a re-write; this was all very last second, and as I said bofore if their had been such an issue with him then they would have let him go well before then or even simply told him to change what was in his script as he was writing it.[/QUOTE]

I don't really agree. Not only does it lesson his villiany by retconning away his biggest (as far as the movies tell us) crime but it activly whitewashes him in doing so while portraying him as an fumbling idiot who makes no attempt to explain that he did'nt do what he's being accused of (despite having two chances to do so - three if you count the fact that he could have gone to Leia and does'nt) and has him chose to go to Snoke over his own damn mother for help.

Baffelingly it's somehow both a whitewash and a charecter assasination at the same time, and I'm honestly I'm suprised that such a product come from Soule of all peaple.

That looks almost nothing like Rey, lol - they somehow got the cheeks and the hair right, but messed up on the face and the skin tone huge.

That's not suprising though, since the third issue had young Luke look like He-Man

When I reffering to Vader I also meant Anakin, as their the same person, just as Kylo Ren and Ben Solo are.

I don't think anyone was arguing that it was romantic, lol.

Well, if the qoute refers to Vader and not Ren, then someone can't just take it and re-frame it to make it appear as if Lucas was talking about that latter - not only is that putting words in GL's mouth, but its misrepersenting his opinion in a way that, intentional or not, fuels a specific narrative.