ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

That's fine as long as they don't dress it up as moral judgement..
Pendragon M and I have often crossed swords metaphorically speaking but I appreciate his honesty regarding Kylo - it's not because he sees him as 'overprivileged, sexist and abusive'....
It's because he killed Han Solo.

 

From the mirroring thread:

 

Well, I understand people can see him an annoying, but not overprivileged and entitled.

And no way does someone who openly calls himself a monster like himself.

 

how exactly is someone who says "i can take whatever I want" not entitled?

 

He's written as a spoiled prince in a fairy tale. Only worse as he is evil. He kills a beloved OT character who is his father and is unarmed. And then we have to spend the next movie watching him feel bad about it while making moves on the protagonist. If people like that great, but surely you see how people might have a strong negative reaction to that.

 

I find this sad.
There are people born into poverty and hardship. Yet they grow up happy, stable and content because they had loving, understanding parents, who were there for them when they needed them.

There are people born the children of legends. People born into wealth and privilege. And turn out ****** up adults because their parents weren't there for them when they needed them.
Prince Charles is a man who has had everything. But his relationship with his father has always been difficult, mostly because he sent him to an extremely strict boarding school to 'make a man of him.'
The late Henry Fonda, a brilliant actor, had a dreadful relationship with his children. Some truly exceptional people can be terrible parents.
This is how I see Han and Leia... exceptional people. But failures as parents.
But Kylo is so loathed and detested by many they don't just fail to see his side of the story, but refuse to see it. Han and Leia are heroes.
Yes. But not good parents.
"There was always too much Vader in him" - Han
"I never should have sent him away" - Leia
"All I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him" ' Luke

I always liked the conversation between Tony Stark and Yinsen in IronMan
"You have everything.....and nothing."

The tragedy of the Kylo Rens of this world is people judge them on what lies on the surface.
"Oh, you're rich and want for nothing and you're parents are wonderful people.... what's your problem?"
Perhaps they'd like to live with those parents.
"You see Han Solo as the father you never had. He would have disappointed you." - Kylo Ren.

Ultimately, as Yinsen says, you can have everything and nothing.
I don't want to Bible bash, but I think this is an interesting quote:
"Better a dinner of herbs where love is than a stalled ox and hatred within."

 

Again, are you going to apply the same pronouncement to yourself for your hatred of Rey? It's not actually because you really think she's some poorly written "virgin saint" or whatever, but because she took the ending you wanted for Kylo? Or is it maybe possible for people to hate a character for multiple reasons?

 

Being sent away by his parents would excuse Kylo for being a brat and being angry. But not a murderer. That's a chasm like leap in logic.

 

I liked Rey in TFA and TLJ. I disliked her in TROS for the reasons I've already stated. And to me she didn't'take' Kylo's ending. The last thing I wanted for him was to become a mystical Force god standing on Tattooine in the ruins of the family farm in a place where
His grandmother died
His mother was enslaved
His grandfather was enslaved
His uncle hated
The ending I wanted was for him to be redeemed, live and become some kind of Ronin atoning for his past deeds and finding love on the way.
That's the ending I 'wanted' for Kylo.

And yes, I do apply the philosophy to myself. I've always hated Emma Frost in X Men because in looks and character she's a dead ringer for one of the school bullies who made my life a misery as a kid.

 

platonic love or romantic love?

 

Right, so you hate Rey for multiple reasons. No different than many of us feel about Kylo. In other words we're not "dressing it up as moral judgement" when we discuss Kylo, as you say in your first point. Killing Han is just one bullet point on a long list.

 

What a hornet's nest I've entered.
It's funny. As a kid I was ridiculed for being a Star Wars fan. As an adult, I'm being ridiculed for being a SW fan who doesn't hate Kylo Ren.
Life is strange.
Meanwhile, it might be a good idea to rename this the 'Good SW fans all hate Kylo Ren' thread. Because that's all it's become.

 

@sian1965 I am sorry you were bullied. I was not trying to ridicule you. I do admit taking the treatment of the OT characters in the ST personally because I grew up with them. And yes they do excuse a lot of Kylo's behavior at their expense which bothers some of us. But everyone should be free to voice their opinion.

 

Chris, believe it or not they mean a lot to me too, I don't see them as bad, simply human beings who make mistakes. In fact, their fallibility is one of the reasons I love them so much, and why I was so disappointed in the direction they went with Rey.
It's because I love the Skywalkers/Solos - all of them, right back to Anakin - that TROS was such a blow. Yes, I know the message they were selling but at the end of the day, JJ and Terrio wiped out the family I loved, and who WERE SW, and replaced them with a Palpatine. It would have been better if she were Rey Nobody.

 

Those characters were unable to continue after TLJ. The only one left was Ben, who I don't see as much of a continuation for them. What would Rey being a nobody change about the situation?

 

I think.....
It's time to leave this forum. I've enjoyed the debate - and had a few laughs - but this isn't really a place for someone who is a Kylo Ren fan.
So long guys. It's been an experience!

 

I'm sure Rey or Finn would have done anything to grow up with parents like Han and Leia in a beautiful comfortable home - as opposed to living in scrap heaps and scavenging to have enough to eat at the end of the day or being kidnapped as a child and raised by people like Phasma.

And like I've said many, many times before to Kylo fans who say "Han and Leia were bad parents" without providing any evidence, there really isn't any evidence of this in the canon books we've seen which actually show Han and Leia parenting Ben. On the contrary the books have shown them to be very devoted parents to Ben.

I also find questioning that some people don't like Ben because he killed Han very strange. I'm sure to Kylo fans if Kylo had been killed by Hux or Phasma or Poe they would hate whomever killed him for killing their favourite character. Why is it unfounded to dislike someone who killed a character you loved, especially in this case when said character did nothing to deserve their death?

 

Kylo Ren arrives during a time in history where nobody should be giving the benefit of the doubt to authoritarians. His character and arc is therefore one of the most poorly-timed and ill-fitted to the zeitgeist as any I can think of in film history. People are rightfully not interested in the feelings and perspectives of a Space Trump.

 

Born on third base and cries about his parents only hitting a triple.