ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

Ah, but it's there. And it's not even subtle:

Spoiler

He gets a scar like a monster.



Scar. [I know, he's so pretty but you get the point of the scar]



Now he thinks of himself as a monster too.


Scar still there when the healing (transformation) begins.


Healing tears.


Scar is gone, monster no more. Transformation complete.


Healing hears. Transformation begins.



Beast no more. Transformation complete.

 

There's no BatB with Rey/Kylo as Kylo is not the Beast. He's Gaston in comparison.

Also, Rey and Kylo's tension would've worked far better if they'd been cousins or siblings. The audience would've been far more invested in the outcome and the ending could have had Kylo/Ben living or dead and either ending would've worked, but it would've been an ending you couldn't predict.

Cousins works just fine. Black Panther did the cousin plot wonderfully and no one had an issue with it.

For Rey/Kylo to be written believably without a family connection, they needed to know each other before Kylo fell. Think Snape/Lily in Harry Potter. But as is, there's nothing there and it's written in a very shallow and unbelievable way. To say siblings/cousins would be worse is a bit laughable considering what we got, which for many, had no substance anyway.

Also, Leia lived in the DOTF script. So "ending the Skywalker lineage" wasn't always a sure-fire thing.

 

well, he gave her a library through the dyad Force Bond. That's how she learned the mind trick.

Gaston and Belle would be CT's Rey and Poe romance. Poe is "we are the spark that will light the fire and burn the Beast down" guy.

 

That was alos before Carrie Fisher's passing so, be gone thoth.

 

that was you! thanks a lot I got an F on that test.

 

the dyad and the force training scene was so all those who complain mary sue at Rey.

 

BP cousin plot worked because they didn't need to be cousins for the plot to work. It was straight up revenge story. One father kills another. Son wants revenge. That T'challa and N'Jadaka were cousins had no bearing on their relationship. N'Jadaka was bent on killing T'Challa and T'Challa killed N'jadaka at the end. They needn't be cousins for that kind of a relationship. There was no conflict of interest on either side. The only thing relation achieved is explain why N'jadaka could contend for the throne but we know that relation wasn't necessary cause M'baku wasn't related and yet he challenged T'challa. But I guess once the King was chosen...

You also have Aquaman where two brothers are in conflict but the real villain isn't Orm (or Black Manta for the matter) but the evil father legacy. Like in BP case, it's fathers who set conflict in motion while sons only carry it out so it's still the Son and the Father rather than Brother/Brother (or Cousin/Cousin).

Spoiler

 

Adam Driver seems like a really stand-up guy in real life. It's just a pity he was saddled with such a lackluster role. Guy did the best he could with what he was given, though.

 

JJ and China don't ,love ghost.

 

I guess it all depends on what an actor wants from the experience. It seems to me that he took a great interest in stunt work, something he hasn't done before SW (Marine training notwithstanding), so he has that on his resume and references from stunt coordinators, which sure helps if looking for another stunt-heavy role. Also, he received rave reviews so that matters too. I think that, in his favor, while the role was weak overall, like any in ST, he got a bunch of really strong scenes which couldn't be said for some other actors who had weak characters and weak scenes.

 

Adam had the best scenes and work along side Daisy Rydley.

 

Them being cousins was definitely important because there was the element of them vying for who would be King. And as such, that's very much what ended up being Kylo and Rey's plot anyway. Rey ended up being the chosen Skywalker and the legacy saber called to her over Kylo Ren. If Rey was an actual Skywalker, it would've been Anakin/Vader's two legacies fighting over who's the rightful heir - Anakin Skywalker's legacy or Darth Vader's legacy? To say they couldn't have made an interesting story is silly. They could have. All it would've taken was planning and well-thought out arcs. Black Panther managed it. Star Wars easily could have as well.

 

Very true. @Fredrik Vallestrand

@reyvision ST isn't BP. ST wanted a romance, and got it, though I'm sure that BP cousins are a popular ship too.

 

Rey being the adopted Skywalker fits Rey as a character better.

 

God, I loved that film.
I remember watching it with my mum on her birthday. Didn't know at the time it was her last.

 

They didn't want a romance. If they wanted a romance, Ben Solo would've survived. Also, Poe/Rey would've never even been an option, but we know it was.

The point is, cousins could have worked. Siblings could have worked. What we got didn't work for many, many people, and to say cousins/siblings wouldn't have worked looks silly when what we got didn't work for many already.

 

If they thought relatives would work they would have made ST about them. As it is, they wanted something else. The end of Skywalkers with a little surprise romance thrown into the mix.

Rey and Poe was an option that didn't become reality. You will focus on option existing at all, and I will focus on being discarded. But fact is that they went back to Rey and Kylo-Ben over Rey and Poe. We don't know why they toyed with it, and we don't know why they fired CT and overhauled his script. It's a fun what if. However, Rey and Kylo related isn't even what if. It wasn't an option as of 2014. Whatever Arndt had in mind, whatever Lucas treatment had, that was all discarded.

 

The point is it could have been an option and it could've been well done if they'd thought it out and planned the trilogy out. You were arguing that siblings/cousins wouldn't work, and I find that a silly argument when what they actually ended up doing didn't work for many audiences. The ST is very divisive among the fanbase. Cousins/siblings would not have been any worse than what we got. Not by a long shot.

As it stands, we know they didn't plan anything, the directors kept changing, each director had a different vision, and two very different endings were possible (DOTF and TROS). All it shows to me is they should've planned things out. Cousins/siblings/Reylo happily-ever-after. Whatever they wanted. They could have done it properly. They didn't. Black Panther did it, but SW couldn't.

 

Rey was a nobody with a dark past in her backstory.
Also black panter killed his sibling.

 

BP worked because fathers set up the conflict that sons carried out. So technically, it's a the Son and the Father rather than straight up cousin/cousin dynamic. One son is the proxy for father avenging himself. So who was gonna kill whom in ST, Luke Leia or Leia Luke? That's BP. brother killed brother and killed brother's son took his father's place. basically became his father carrying out his ideology and revenge.

 

It shouldn't be direct copy of Black Panther. The point was you said cousins couldn't work and I said BP proved it could. I don't think the conflict would even be about Luke and Leia. It would be about Anakin/Vader. Anakin/Vader himself is who Rey and Ben would have in common if they were cousins. Kylo wants Vader's legacy, Rey wants Anakin's. This is just one story idea. There are many options, and if they did siblings, it could even be something different.

My entire point was: it's possible to make a good story out of this. To say otherwise is nonsense, especially when what we got has the fanbase so divided anyway.