ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

Yup.
Abrams saw the results of the SW 'who do you want to see most in TROS' poll.
https://www.starwars.com/news/poll-who-do-you-most-want-to-see-in-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker
Kylo - 83%
Rey - 5%

And he was not happy. Hence, TROS.

"I think you'll find out what happens to (Kylo) pretty fun" - JJ Abrams.

 

Did he say that? And is there something wrong with killing off the character?

 

And yes, there is something VERY wrong with killing off the last Skywalker, and replacing him with the last Palpatine.

Looking back at the entire ST it was all about Rey taking over from the last of the OT cast's bloodline. Which I am absolutely sure is why they had Kylo kill Han - they wanted people to be delighted when he died and cheer Rey when she stepped up to take over his role as the 'child of legends'. In fact I am positive the original plan was for Rey to be the one who killed him, ironically in a roundabout way she did.

The last film should reallt have been called Rise of the Palpatines.

 

Does that video have him saying that he did it based on a poll?

There is not. It's a fictional character.

The last Skywalker sucked, to me. Why should I care that he's the last Skywalker? That doesn't make him a character worthwhile, to me.

I'll take Rey Palpatine over that.

 

Fair enough, we are entitled to like or dislike who we want, but no way would any filmmaker admit public opinion swayed their views - they never said they'd listened to hater of TLJ when they retconned it.

But standing back from who we like, and who we dislike.....Kylo/Ben was the last descendant of Anakin, Luke's nephew, Han and Leia's only child - the makers of the ST stressed that post TFA. He was the seed of the heroes everyone loved back in the OT days. The only one left. And DLF chose to make him a villain, so that they could replace him with someone else. And...they brought back Palpatine.

So, when you look back at the saga....it's a complete tragedy. Anakin sacrifices himself to save his son and daughter. He destroys Palpatine. But thirty years later Palpatine is back. He corrupts the last Skywalker, who kills his father. Luke dies, Leia dies....and although he redeems himself Ben dies. There will be no grandchildren for Leia and Han. Rey is the Last Jedi. And how do we know that Palpatine won't return yet again and corrupt Rey?

Palps should have stayed dead and DLF could and should have done something different. But they didn't. End of.

 

It is so funny how people suddenly care about bloodlines as long it is related to Kylo. After TFA and TLJ, people were saying how you do not need to come from a special bloodline and bloodlines don't matter but as soon as the title for IX dropped, the conversation shifted to 'Well, of course the title refers to Kylo, he is the last Skywalker', 'They will not kill off the last Skywalker' ... 'How dare JJ kill the last Skywalker' - well maybe don't make him a fascist with no redeeming qualities.

The people whining about Kylo's death are the same people who were going on about Rey not needing to be related to the Skywalker family to be special.

 

I will never not consider it evidence of how much the Sequel Trilogy failed to establish Rey as a Skywalker in any meaningful way that Kylo Ren/Ben Solo, a character who has never identified as a Skywalker and has never used the surname, is considered the Skywalker over her.

All they had to do was show Rey becoming an adoptive daughter to Luke during their time together and they would have made the taking of the name meaningful. That's it. It's that simple. If they wanted Rey to take on the Skywalker name, that would be all they'd have to do.

It's almost like having little to no definite plans for the characters and their story is going to have serious consequences on the final product, especially if you're making a trilogy.

It baffles me that there are so many problems plaguing the Sequel Trilogy that could have been solved with the planning that normally goes into writing a story. Some of the things are about downright basic planning. I cannot even bring to fathom how they could decide to produce a trilogy and not plan out the story thoroughly.

 

TLJ was one of the most blatant examples of character sabotage I have ever seen in my life* so after a movie that reduced Rey and other characters and exalted Kylo and his backstory (Rian Johnson cited Robert Bly for inspiration). Characters acting out-of-character since last we saw them. It’s not surprising that an unscientific straw poll of whoever was left caring at that point voted Kylo.

TFA left the audience wondering about Rey - her backstory, what she was gonna learn with Luke, how she would connect with Finn again, how she would stop Kylo and why Snoke was interested in her. TLJ took it all away.

TROS tried to replace it and invent things - oh it’s not Snoke now that’s interested in her, it’s Palpatine back from the dead from 1983 ! - too late to be successful, and too unsatisfying to satisfy or tie the story up.

* I’m not talking about the concept characters having a bad day and going through a trial, that ain’t it. You know how many movies, books, and video games have that happen? Like almost all of them.

 

before:2017-01-01

Rotten Tomatoes's New Favorite Star Wars Character Poll

At the time, based on 71,499 votes.

Here's another fan poll.
Favorite character in The Force Awakens? | The Cantina (starwarsnewsnet.com)
Rey: 33 votes
Kylo Ren: 27 votes.
I'm terribly at math so I can't see what the number of participants were.

(It's a devil of a time finding polls and I couldn't find the more extensive one that I was looking for)

Also, that people are most interested in seeing the villain in the final film of a trilogy over the hero is a sign that Disney has failed in creating and/or maintaining a compelling protagonist. And that's even if you don't believe that Rey started out being the most popular of the two.

EDIT: Found it!


Source: New Poll Reveals the Most Popular Star Wars Character…Or Does It? (banthaskull.com)

There. That's all the pre-TLJ polls I could find.

So, if we go by these polls which were made by different people, Rey was the most popular between her and Kylo Ren. She was not behind him pre-TROS and certainly not by any large margin.

 

I know the Reylos and Kylo fans went and bombed the poll because I saw it talked about on Tumblr. So y'know...

This too as well as @MagnarTheGreat 's comments above.

Yes.

They "planned out" a set of sequels to some of the most popular and highest grossing movies in history with less planning than an average fanfic writer. It's like they half a**ed part 1 and were writing the rest as they were posting it, relying on comments to determine their next step. When someone from the creative staff says that they had to rewrite part 2 because of the unexpected popularity of some characters? Seriously?

I still marvel (heh) at the fact that they had access to the cast of one of the most profitable trilogies in history and decided "eh, who cares if we reunite them or honor their legacy" and fans let them get away with it. Then, in movie 2, when they managed to trash the NEW heroes, more people were upset but they were drowned out too. Then when the fans of TLJ saw TROS and screeched about how awful it was, suddenly it was "oh, LFL screwed up." Really? So those of us who were unhappy with TFA or TLJ were called racists and misogynists but if you were unhappy with TROS, that was okay? Sure, fine, whatever.

You'd think they would have, y'know, sat down on a random Saturday with some continental breakfast and boxed lunch, and figured out how the whole trilogy should go, made a Powerpoint with notes, and then gone to dinner in celebration. Instead, they took the creator's notes, tossed them in the bin, and then threw part 1 to this guy, part 2 to that guy, part 3 to somebody else, all with competing agendas and apparently wildly different ideas as to who the hero was and who the villain was, and decided to make it YA style with a cute bad guy and a cypher good girl.

I don't think I ever want to see any more Disney Star Wars but I would eat up a ten part podcast with accompanying tell all book on how this all really went down.

 

Villains are usually more popular. as much as people want to think Villains are there to be hated and desired to be defeated. alot of the fans do not feel that way.

That and many do feel like Kylo Ren is a more interesting character. and the reason for that is probably because Kylo gives people various different emotions, some may like him as a villain, others may want to see him redeemed. we know who he is and we connect with his heritage. With Rey we didn't know who she was. she are just assuming to stand by her because she is a good person, tiny bit mysterious and the hero. its not until TROS where her character feels like its open to expansion due to the mystery box being out the way. and overall its not that surprising that Rey would be seen as less interesting than Kylo for many people.

Its like the OT. if you was to strip Luke was alot of the jedi stuff, its fair to say Vader or even Han Solo is always gonna be more interesting than Luke. Luke is very much a boy scout in that way. and its probably why Mark Hamill got typecast. and why it was hard to accept him playing a different role than that. people like him as a luke but not enough to assume he had more in him than that.

 

If JJ looked at that poll (which I seriously doubt), I'm sure his main thought was that TLJ completely failed it's protagonist.

It's crazy to me that JJ gets criticized for putting Rey first. THAT'S HOW IT SHOULD BE. Does anyone look at Favreau and complain about him featuring Iron Man or the Mandalorian too much in their movies? Does anyone look at JK Rowling and complain about how much attention Harry got in his final book/movie? I have a lot of criticisms of TROS and JJ's choices there, but trying to re-position Rey front and center is not one of them.

 

I don’t understand your point. Some execs thought that - evidence notwithstanding - Kylo would be more popular in the long run and so contorting the marketing and story in a racist and sexist manner was understandable?

If that’s not what you meant, what do you mean?

 

I mean what i mean. re-read what i said.

 

Since you refuse to clarify I’ll just go with what it sounds like, which is Yikes.

 

My point and your point were not related. thats my Point.

 

So your post was just irrelevant musings. Got it.

 

I'm baffled that you thought TLJ sabotaged everyone's character except Kylo - they all had plenty of screentime and their own story arcs. If anything sabotaged characters it was TROS with everyone EXCEPT Rey.

As for Rey becoming a Skywalker....why in the name of sanity did they NOT make her THE Skywalker heir? They kept banging on about Rey NOT being the Skywalker of the trilogy, from day one. Then in the end make her an 'honorary' one.

If they didn't want Rey Skywalker they should have had her take on someone else's name. If they did, they should have made her one from birth. I'm sorry but it just doesn't add up.

 

Rey’s strandcast father was made with Luke’s DNA, apparently.

DLF took some old April Fool’s joke way too seriously in an attempt to piss off even more fans.

 

Well, there were a couple of rumours going about....one claimed Rey was cloned from Luke's severed hand, another claimed from Darth Maul's severed legs...

 

Nono this is in an upcoming Vader comic. Panels making the rounds online.

 

You do realize that they all had plenty of screen time and their own story arcs in TROS as well, though. If that is all that it should take to satisfy people, than I don't know why you are complaining about TROS. Kylo had his highest screen time in TROS after all... 5 minutes more than TLJ. He had a story arc, a major moment of which was actually completely independent from Rey (something you have said we should all be happy about in regards to Finn's arc in TLJ). Shouldn't you be satisfied then? Or is it how the screen time is used and how the story arcs are crafted that is much more important than just having screen time in and of itself. Characters existing in a movie is not enough, which is what you are basically saying we should be satisfied with in TLJ.