ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

'Rey doesn't need a boyfriend'....Daisy Ridley's words.

She also mentioned post TFA that the relationship between Finn and Rey was 'just good friends'.

I suspect that Rey as a lone Jedi was always going to be endgame.
Still, she has her ego.

 

Yes, and after that?

Ben Solo had an unhappy childhood but was shown to have a sadistic streak that had nothing to do with it. Ben Solo was Palpatine (for a year til the real one showed back up). Ben Solo was a sociopath who put her own life before everyone else.

So tell me again. Why does Kylo get a pass?

Every other Jedi was fine being trained from a young age (even Anakin's problems manifested later, mostly form other sources). We're never actually told he was a 'good kid', in fact almost the opposite ("too much Vader in him"), and it's implied that same darkness is why he was sent to Luke in the first place. The key word in your post I think is 'believed' he was abandoned by his parents. He wasn't. Rey believed she'd been abandoned, so why doesn't she turn evil killer?

The idea that he's coded as mentally ill is a thin one given that the rest of the First Order are equally culpable in similar crimes, all with equal lacks of remorse (and as a presentation of a mentally ill character, Kylo the killer tantrum man is hardly a stunning example of a nuanced take).

 

Guys, we are never going to agree on this one okay, so let's just agree to disagree.

As for the posters who get angry because they think they were 'ordered' to feel sympathy for him....not only did it obviously not work but I actually don't think that was DLF's idea at all. Fact is, they killed him off at the end of TROS and he's never mentioned again. No FG. No scene where Rey tells her friends she's alive because of him.
I think, at least for those who like him, that is why the kiss scene was so out of place. Ben was obviously in love with Rey but if she had felt anything at all for him, she would have at least looked sad, or shed a tear, or told her friends he'd died saving her. Compare this to Kili's death in The Hobbit - he and Tauriel knew each other for a lot less time than Rey and Ben, yet her grief for him was a punch to the gut. It made me cry. Ben's fate in comparison left me completely cold.

Nope, I don't think DLF intended ANYONE to feel sorry for Ben Solo. And I suspect they weren't happy when a lot of people did.

 

Of course we’re never going to argue the reasoning constantly being cited as to why we should agree with you isn’t in the films or ever even presented in the canon. We don’t know anything about Ben Solo the character literally doesn’t exist outside of the end of TROS on film.

Everything you wrote about Han, Leia and Kylo is something they you made up as your own Canon it’s contradicted by books like Last Shot. It’s incredibly hard for people to agree with you when the standards levied at Kylo come from something that doesn’t exist beyond your own personal interpretation of events. Especially when it’s in such a way that nothing is Kylo’s fault.

Interpret what happened before in whatever way you wish but when you use that as an argument to support your POV when nothing supports it and others can interpret it differently. In situations like this people aren’t going to agree with you especially when elements of canon contradict your reasoning.

 

The idea that Kylo was entitled to Rey wanting him

 

See, here again I just have to state that the comparison really doesn't hold up. For starters, neither Kili nor Tauriel tortured the other, or are trying to take over the whole of Middle-Earth. I could go deeper, the only negative thing either one does against the other is Tauriel locking the dwarves up for trespassing, a perfectly reasonably response, if a little harsh. After that they're two people who share a mutual affection, who swap stories, who heal one another and fight on the same side. They don't pointlessly victimise each other or fight for evil. Hell, Tauriel renounces the only traditions stopping her from being with Kili at sword point, never backing down. To equate either with Kylo is farcical. This happens a lot, Kylo being equated to some other character, Elsa from Last Crusade being an example I recall. The contrasts always come up short for me.

Also, Ben being 'obviously' in love with Rey is another rather suspect statement. In all of their interactions together, the relationship is painfully one-sided. Rey seeks to 'redeem' him or whatever, but Kylo is strangely muted on the topic. It seems he wants her for her power, to aid him in his conquests of the First Order and beyond, but any kind of affection? For one thing you have to actually know the person, to quote Steven Universe, and Kylo never makes that effort. He actively belittles Rey's upbringing and makes no moves to appeal to her on any emotional levels, besides blaming Luke for his 'woes'. If he really loved her he'd do the easiest thing in the world and stop being evil, but that's never a source of conflict for him, unlike some other aspects like his relationship with his parents that does at least present some hesitation at first.

And look, I have huge problems with Rey's development too. There are a lot of flaws in the writing of her character. It can be possible that both her and Kylo were thrown under the bus.

 

Did you watch the end of TLJ? Rey offers to help Kylo. Despite all the harm she has seen him do to others and to her personally, she risks here life by shipping herself into enemy territory, helps him fight Snoke's guards, and then reaches her hand out and begs "Ben" to come with her. Despite your claims to the contrary, Rey tries to help Ben Solo. His answer? Nah not interested; now let's kill all the people you care most about.

So Rey now has two data points... his loving father was stabbed when he tried to help Ben, she was told a big fat no. Rey then pivots to helping all the millions that Kylo is complicit in harming. Why again is helping the GFFA by fighting the one trying to harm him not modern heroine material in your book? How many lives should Rey allow to be sacrificed while she waits for Ben to make better choices. I would love to hear your number. Whose lives do you think are expendable? Which child should lose their parents? Which families should be torn apart while Rey chases after Ben's lost soul?

What is your solution here? What specifically should Rey be doing in regards to Ben Solo after he has said no and continues to fight as the leader of the First Order? And again, why is Rey helping the Resistance fight the First Order considered "not helping anyone" in your analysis of these movies?

What is wrong with this statement?

 

I’d like to add that RJ made TLJ knowing that Colin’s 9 had Kylo killing Rey’s parents and also dying in the end…

 

Im a relative fan of Kylo but I find it very hard to argue with this. Well said.

 

What's wrong is that EVERYONE needs someone.
The words were not 'Rey doesn't need Kylo' but 'Rey doesn't need a boyfriend'. In short, that includes Finn, Poe and just about every eligible man in the universe.
Rey it seems.....needs nobody. No love, no family, no children. Nobody.

As an asexual woman I can honestly say that living alone is NOT the type of life I would have chosen. And before anyone argues that Rey has her 'adoring family'.....how long before a couple of red blooded handsome guys like Finn and Poe find someone else to 'lay the pipe' with.

I have extended family, who are married with families of their own. I love them and vice versa, but at the end of the day their loyalties are of course with their spouses and kids, as they should be. My bro is gay and lost his partner but has friends and a close knit community. Believe it or not, I'm very lucky to be autistic, as I'm able to cope with being isolated more and I have a wonderful family of animals. But even I need someone at times.

Rey at the end of TROS was shown as alone apart from someone else's droid and two ghosts. I don't care if Carson's novel adds that she intended to go back to her 'family', the Resistance (who would soon be disbanding). They chose to end the film with her alone - even the music soundtrack was called A New Home.

I'm sorry but I can't find this anything but sad.

 

She didn’t look cold when reuniting with her friends at the resistance base.
And the scene on Tatooine is resonant with many parts of the saga. Shmi buried there, baby Luke brought there, Luke’s ANH beginning. Burying the sabers there makes sense as a gesture and brings things full circle. It’s all about birth and death. Plus she seems to have used the crystals in her golden saber - there are two blue lights and a green before it fully ignites.

 

But the Jedi journey is usually a solitary one. Luke's (and Yoda, mace, Obi Wan, etc) was, and although Anakin wasn't, that had horrible consequences. (Luke had friends but not a romance). I did not expect Rey to end up with anyone; I expected her to train and fight evil. They tried to shoehorn in a star crossed romance with a Jedi journey to try to appeal to a demographic, and it split the fan base.

 

(Here I am, playing the advocate for a film that I didn't like)



Rey already had her reunion ending with her family where she is even shown to nearly cry of joy at the sight of them (meaning she was not portrayed as not caring about them in the ending)

(Yes, that's the Victory Celebration theme. I use the videos I find so long as the footage itself is not edited)


Rey didn't arrive with anything but a very-light travel satchel. She clearly wasn't planning on staying there forever: she just went there to symbolically bury Luke and Anakin Skywalker. There's been nothing that shows that Rey has decided that she's going to go live alone - nothing has changed that indicates that she is going to stay apart from her friends whom she had just a tearful reunion with.

Rey ends the film alone on Tatooine because the film wanted a "the story ends where it once began" moment. It doesn't make sense for her to bury Luke and Anakin a place that they both hated, it doesn't make sense that the last shot of Rey is her standing alone when her theme has been family, it doesn't make sense for her to take the Skywalker surname when she had closer connections to Han and Leia, but that's because it's an ending that exists for meta reasons (Luke's story began on Tatooine, the binary sunset is the iconic shot in the first film, Anakin's story began on Tatooine etc.)

 

They were mirroring or copying the ending of the PT. I think mirroring only works a few times, and then it just looks like copying.

 

The ending did do one thing right, which was that we got to see Rey sand sledding again.


However, I have to reduct points because we never got to see a sand sled race between her, Finn, Poe and Rose.

 

Rey should have done a Tony Hawk move against one of the walls, to connect with the younger crowd.

 

BAZ Edit: Content deleted. Not appropriate

 

ew

 

BB-8 would win that race

 

*winces*

I noticed you completely ignored our rebuttals once again.

And you are contradicting yourself.

 

Maybe one


Maybe both


Maybe neither


Maybe Rose


Maybe it'll be someone we haven't met

Maybe it'll be someone we have met, but that Rey haven't


Who knows?

Rey has time for love - she's only twenty - and even if she's not interested in romance or children, she'll still have a family


Because you can be loved by your friends and your friends can be your family, too.

There's actually a pretty famous example in Star Wars already.

 

But I hear that if a girl doesn’t have a life partner by the time she’s 20 she’ll suffer the worst fate of all: Dying an old maid.

 

Rey: crazy cat lady Jedi.