ST Kylo Ren/Adam Driver Discussion Thread

It’s so woke telling the women in the audience that it’s their job to fix the abusive and violent men in their lives because the gods demand it.

 

@alwayslurking
In the movie we got

"My mother was the daughter of Vader. Your father was the son of the Emperor. What Palpatine doesn't know is we're a dyad in the Force, Rey. Two that are one."
―Kylo Ren

"The lifeforce of your bond... a dyad in the Force. A power like life itself. Unseen for generations. And now... the power of two restores the one, true Emperor."
―Palpatine

In the Secrets of the Sith book:

Then we got the out of universe perspective from Terrio in the Skywalker Legacy documentary:

Which is probably based on this quote from Joseph Campbell

Joseph Campbell, "The Hero's Journey: Joseph Campbell on His Life and Work"

 

I don't know whether the dyad is a curse since Rey and Kylo is the only example we have so far. If we have more examples of dyad having similar fates than Rey and Kylo, then I would believe the connection is a curse. Plus, the way people and characters talk about it, it looks more like it's the "real thing" and the rule of 2 is just a pale imitations of the potential of those in a dyad relationship.

 

Fixed a few things for you... for accuracy sake.

 

With the way she kissed him, it seems she was no longer uncomfortable around him by that point in the story and then her thinking of the "incredible oneness" and how half of her has been "ripped away". Yep, doesn't seem like she was under a curse at all, imo, quite the opposite.

 

"Joseph Campbell (which we name drop whenever we want to sound intelligent")

 

This is some next level creepy stuff. She finally feels at one with the murderer who's been trying to murder her for 3 movies. She soul is now halved because the psycho is dead.

I don't think you realize just how creepy this is.

 

I just watched Pride and Prejudice last night. Now Mr. Darcy is a bad boy, a bit aloof and awkward and perhaps rude. Kylo is just a killer. There's a big difference. It would be like Padme being attracted to Anakin after Mustafar. Disney tried to go all fan fictiony with the forbidden romance thing.

 

Nah. It would be like insisting that Padme was attracted to the person who spent 3 movies trying to murder her; Palpatine.

The oneness of their soul. I hope she can save him.

 

Heh, I've seen worse and more melodramatic dialogue and Kylo, to me, has never been a convincing villain so I don't have the same disgust you have about them ending up together, even though that's not the story that I wanted at the time, that's what we got and I accepted it. In fact, I didn't believe into the First Order faction as the main villains for a long time, Resistance helped me understand a lot of things about it.

I prefer keeping an open mind and wait until there is new story that change my opinion of the character which is exactly what happened with Kylo from my perspective. I have now a new appreciation of the character even if he's still not one of my favorite, and Adam Driver's performance in subsequent films is a major reason of my new appreciation.

To me, an actor's performance can make or break a story for me. You can have the best character and story ever on paper, if it doesn't translate well on-screen, I won't buy it.
Thankfully, in the case Kylo it worked for me.

 

You personally don't see him as a 'convincing' villain - whatever means - because in order for you to romanticize him, he can't be a villain.

Here's unconvincing lover boy vowing to a villain. Just in case you were wondering where the villain part was. And this was after their date where she wore make up and shipped herself in a box so that she can save his soul, I mean...date him.

 

His last appearance in that movie has him on his knees, head down. He replaced Snoke as the Supreme Leader, he finally had all the power that he wanted and yet this is how we left him, looking defeated in his moment of triumph. Nope, still not buying it.

I originally thought he would be redeemed in that movie but I was pleasantly surprised by RJ's choice to make him the new leader and wanted to see how they were going to wrap up his story in TROS.

I didn't expect such a short time jump, thus making it the trilogy with the shortest time span which might explain why there's not as much story during the time of the ST as there was for the PT and the OT.

 

His last 30 seconds in a 7 hour movie has him mute and never apologizes to Rey for spending that 7 hours abusing her and trying to murder her.

Actually … that sounds like the most villainous thing he could do

 

I try not to let fandom discourses affect my enjoyment of fiction, though it's a lot harder to do when I'm more invested into the fandom and I myself got involved into some heated debates which was exhausting but instructive when users don't act as if their interpretation is the absolute truth and no others exist. Of course, if I ever change my opinion on characters, relationships or the story I also expect to change it on MY terms, through rewatch. I hope new stories will focus more on Ben Solo rather than the Kylo Ren persona

 

Ben Solo and Kylo Ren are the same person, there’s no persona about it

 

Only Ben Solo does one selfless act in resurrecting Rey.
And yes, he knew he was going to die. He just let go. Saying he thought he would “own” Rey is biased head canon.

 

what, how does that suggest they are two different people?

 

When did Kylo ever do anything completely selfless? Not literally two different people however.

 

That was a stupid opinion on RJ and KK’s part, agreed. Kylo is a fascist, I would hope people don’t relate to that. But I think ignoring the contrast with Ben is missing the point.

Ben didn’t act entitled there at all, he was there to help, no longer demanded the saber from Rey (“That saber, it belongs to me!” vs Rey sensing his change and sending it to him for free to take out the KOR), and he would rather he died than Rey. He is aware of what it takes to resurrect her. It’s why he smiles - Rey doesn’t get it but Ben knows he is about to die.

 

I don't have to relate to him, just understanding his motivations and what make him click would be enough for me. If I end up rooting for him by the end of it, it would be icing on the cake.

Sure, there are but Kylo is hiding behind the helmet for a reason and obviously he's struggling to live up to the expectations of not only himself but also of his master who is not fooled by his acting tough guy routine. He's basically a child in a mask like Snoke stated.