ST Laura Dern (Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo) in TLJ

I felt Holdo doing that suicidal mission was an absolutely wrong decision. Putting aside all plot holes, given Laura's great work, that scene screamed "Farewell to Carrie Fisher". It should be Leia to destroy the fleet sacrificing herself instead of Holdo. That would make so much more sense. Holdo is a good guy character, Laura did a good job portraying her, and there is a need to say goodbye to Leia.
Leia going off with one of the two most beautiful and epic scenes (other one is Luke and Binary Sunset) would be great farewell to character, and it would fit her character, and it would leave Holdo as one of the main Republic characters to fill the blank. That was such a waste of good actress and not that bad character as Holdo and missed opportunity to give Leia the proper ending.

 

TLJ was completed before Carrie passed. The plan was for Leia to have a major role in the final movie. What would you have had them do? Re-write and re-shoot major portions of TLJ after Carrie died?

 

I see many fans complain about how can she be in the Resistance military with that stupid attire.

And I'm like..... if your a fan, you ever heard of Mon Mothma.

 

Yeah before the movie came out people were doubtful she would be commanding wearing that. And I didn't get it. Who cares how she dresses.

Anyway, I am still stunned at how Holdo didn't tell anyone her plan. I think that is terrible leadership. It is very fitting with Holdo in the Leia novel but she was 16 at the time. I would think she would have learned over the years that being mysterious doesn't really fill those under you with confidence if they have no history with you. Loyalty and respect are earned not given. Even in my own minimal experience with leadership I know that if I don't give any inspiration/confidence/motivation it often leads to worse results.

And I can understand in the sense that she is in authority and so people should follow her orders. But things have always been more discussion-oriented IMO in the Rebellion/Resistance. And she wasn't willing to have the discussion.

 

Holdo ramming the Supremacy was one of my favorite scenes... but I would have loved it more if it was Admiral Ackbar!

 

Was it Holdo's plan?

Or always Leia's plan, but she got injured, so Holdo tried to complete it?


Edit: I guess it was Holdo's, because Leia didn't have time to think of a plan between learning the FO can track them to when she got injured.

 

I don't think it ever really made that clear. I like the idea of it being Holdo's plan. Also when Leia was talking to Poe about it she explained that "Holdo knew..." that the FO wouldn't detect the Resistance transports heading towards Crait. So I dunno, that kind of made it sound like this was Holdo's idea.

 

One thing I don't think people realize.

While Leia was General of the whole Resistance. Ackbar was the Admiral of the Raddus itself. Holdo was Admiral of one the three support ships.

When the entire Raddus command was wiped up (except injured Leia), Holdo was reassigned to the main Raddus ship.

I think the black guy Holdo was talking to, was her own captain who served under her on that ship.

 

Ohhhh. I like this. I like this a lot.

Although if I were her I would have been willing to discuss with Poe in private because he is acting like a problem and he's not letting it go. I guess I would just kind of trust he isn't the mole though...

 

That's true. I didn't realize that only Rose, Finn, Poe and probably Connix and Threepio knew about the Supremacy tracking device.

Holdo could have a thought a spy was onboard and that's how the FO kept following them.


Both sides are to blame for bad communication.


oncafar. you never know. Poe's actions just got their whole bomber fleet destroyed. And all Holdo knew of Poe was that Leia just demoted him. For all Holdo knew, Poe was the mole.

 

My guess is she was trying to limit not only the spread of information about the plan but the fact that there was one, as well as limit it to absolutely necessary people at the absolute necessary time under absolutely maximally controlled circumstances. It was a balance of leaked intel vs crew morale.

 

Yeah and I mean people skills and communication were not Holdo's strengths in the Leia novel. Her strength is coming up with clever solutions and thinking out-of-the-box IMO, as well as doing this with minimal losses. So it's in character that she would be less focused on morale. And leadership styles are a thing.

 

Huh ? Holdo is not keeping her plans to herself, the movie do show her exchanging with other officers.

It's mostly Poe she kept off the loop, and for a very good reason ! He has proven himself to be insubordinate, rash and unstable, so it was clearly time to "put him on the bench" and have him cool down a bit. Leia demoted him for a reason.

 

I think this is false. Connix didn't know about the plan and she was on the "bridge" with Holdo. She knew they were fueling the transports but I don't think she knew why since she still was participating in the Poe mutiny rather than telling Poe that Holdo's idea might actually work.

 

Connix has sort of become the new Wedge (extra side character that helps the heroes throughout the films)

 

Holdo was a pretty good character, but really everything she did in this movie they should have had Leia do. Make Leia the only survivor from the bridge being destroyed (Akbar and the other high officials get sucked out, but Leia uses the Force to hold on to something and crawl to an airlock...no Mary Poppins, no coma!), then she clashes with Poe on running vs. fighting, etc., and Leia makes the sacrifice with the cruiser which allows the small ships to escape undetected to Crait, and there Poe is solely in charge but he's learned the lesson from Leia and he's a real leader there, so his efforts and Rey's converge to save the spark of the Rebellion.

 

I was thinking about this and actually Tallie reminds me way more of Wedge. I wish she hadn't died.

 

But I liked that the leader we this person far down the chain of command whom we, as an audience, didn't know and trust. We know Leia too well so there wouldn't be that ambiguity.

 

The tension would come from two characters we like and trust completely disagreeing on the plan. There's your ambiguity for the audience. Who's side does the audience take? Leia vs. Poe. With Poe still having to learn lessons from Leia along the way. That would have been epic. Instead a brand new character that's been on screen for 25 minutes makes this huge sacrifice and gets the most epic death visually in the history of the saga. Now Leia will probably die off screen and get a mention in the crawl of 9. TLJ should have been reshot and edited so that Leia makes Holdo's sacrifice.

 

From what I recall, Leia told Poe that Holdo knew that the FO were tracking their big ship but could not track the small ones.
So it sounded like she knew that there was no mole.

Also, if there was a mole, then as soon as the transports were getting ready or when they were leaving, the mole could alert the FO and they would all die.

Her keeping this a secret got something like 90% of what was left of the resistance killed.
If she had told Poe something, then he would not have sent Finn away and the FO would have no idea about the plan and would likely miss the ships.

Given the dire situation, keeping up crew moral was vital.
If they felt they were all doomed, then you could get people trying to flee, which did happen. Or them doing something rash, which also happened.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Except we would know with whom to side with right off the bat : it's obvious Poe is behaving like a d#ck.

However, we are not inclined to side with Holdo either, as we don't trust her at this point. This leaves us with a very interesting dilemna, wondering who is right and who is wrong.
Also, Holdo is allowed to be more abrasive than Leia, adding to the tension (and slightly lessening Poe's faults).

Now keep in mind : your suggestion would imply cutting off Luke and Leia reunion scene : that's nothing short of a capital crime.

 

I'd suggest a different metaphysical Luke and Leia reunion scene, which is what TLJ gave us anyway. What's one spiritual reunion vs. another?

Luke could be meditating as Leia light speeds the cruiser, the silent explosion happens BAM, then we cut to the spiritual reunion of Luke talking to Leia's spirit as she's dying. That would be the implication.

Poe vs. Leia could easily be written without telegraphing who is right and who is wrong in their strategy. And so what if more people side with Leia. TLJ telegraphed so many things anyway. Was Rey being right about the Jedi being necessary telegraphed? Was Luke being right about Kylo not turning telegraphed and easily guessed? Of course.

 

A - not sure how you made that giant leap in logic. Leia trusted Poe and only told in the escape pod en route to Crait, making it pointless to keep it a secret at that point.
B - nobody ever knows there's no mole or planted listening devices, which is why information is only provided on a need to know basis. Leia decided at that point that Poe needed to know.

The later the FO is alerted, the more time they have to settle on Crait. The secrecy is to help maximize their escape time in the event there was a mole/audio bug, not to make one completely ineffectual.

And if my mother hadn't imposed a 9 o'clock curfew on me, I wouldn't have cracked my back trying to sneak into the house at midnight. Why are we blaming Holdo for actions *she did not authorize*?? When Finn and Rose told Poe their plan, he should have brought it to Holdo, but instead decided to go covert. That's what got 90% of the Resistance killed. Poe had no right to be included on the plan as he was demoted. He was brave, yes, and that's presumably what Holdo confessed to liking about him, but he was also reckless and insubordinate and that resulted in the FO finding out.

And her speech was intended to keep morale up. Poe interfered and made things worse. That was a burden he eventually had to bear and learn from.

 

Holdo was one of my favorite characters in this, besides Rey and Kylo. I liked how she handled Poe, even though we are meant to like Poe and appreciate his arc.

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywoo...jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women

I also have to admit that I am still amazed by that brilliant move she made when she sent the ship into lightspeed to mess up the First Order fleet. I've seen the film thrice now, and every time I say, "Wow," as I look at that effect. I bet Phasma, Hux, and everyone else who did not die on the Supremacy were shocked. That was a lot of damage. Bad*** woman right there.